Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

[PeteS in CA]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Regarding that Toshiba FET, 7A is not that much at all. I ran it at 160W for an hour and the primary heatsink was surprisingly cool (88F), so it seems to be doing its job. I will load it higher later. Are you thinking that the KY caps will have too low of ESR? I don't have any Panny FM but I do have FC which are fairly similar, most of them are 1-47uF 50V caps though

Probably a current rating in the same ballpark as an MJE13007 BJT, just much faster rise and fall times, and no storage time (three factors that limit BJTs to switch frequencies under ~50KHz).

Yeah, I think the ESR of KY may be low enough to cause stability issues, and the ESR of the FM series is even lower. I'm assuming the impedance of those JP caps is in the same ballpark as Nichicon PJ or PW. Nichicon PW, UCC LXZ and Panasonic FC are pretty much equivalent parts, in terms of impedance. Were this P/S more modern, needing lower impedance, KY, HE and maybe KZE or FM might be appropriate. That's just my (very) mental guesstimation.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Probably a current rating in the same ballpark as an MJE13007 BJT, just much faster rise and fall times, and no storage time (three factors that limit BJTs to switch frequencies under ~50KHz).

Yeah, I think the ESR of KY may be low enough to cause stability issues, and the ESR of the FM series is even lower. I'm assuming the impedance of those JP caps is in the same ballpark as Nichicon PJ or PW. Nichicon PW, UCC LXZ and Panasonic FC are pretty much equivalent parts, in terms of impedance. Were this P/S more modern, needing lower impedance, KY, HE and maybe KZE or FM might be appropriate. That's just my (very) mental guesstimation.

I think you are right though, this is a very old PSU. Many thanks to Uranium-235 for the datasheet for the JPCE-TUR caps but there are no impedance specs in the datasheet https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...595b06556e.pdf look like GP caps though

I guess I'm going to have to get a scope!

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

You should usually be fine by comparing ripple current. It highly corresponds with ESR/impedance.

Seems like somewhere between general purpose and low-ESR to me. Enermax uses these even today in lower-end PSUs. I have succesfully swapped 3300uF Samxons RS for them without problems many times.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

^ In some of these older PSU's? I also have an ESR meter to test these caps but I imagine they have risen over the years. Thanks for the info Behemot

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Oldest I did so far were the first Enermax Liberty ones. Hell, I even have one in my main rig But they almost all use this line, TUR. Even the new models which Enermax produces today.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Those are good PSU's. Yeah I've noticed...I'm surprised, the datasheet only says 1,000 hours @ 105C?!

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Those are good PSU's. Yeah I've noticed...I'm surprised, the datasheet only says 1,000 hours @ 105C?!

PCBONEZ wrote a very good post about how the endurance rating isn't the same thing at all as the lifespan:

No it doesn't.


No it isn't.

The Endurance rating is the result of a formal Industry Standard test and is not related to MTBF at all.
- Not even a little bit.
There is in fact NO FAILURE involved with an Endurance test at all.

Basically the test involves running the cap with everything at it's limit for x-many hours.
Then the cap is then returned to 20C.
The caps parameters can not be out of specifically defined limits after the test.
Specifically those are:
- DC Leakage must be at the initially specified value.
- Capacitance +/-20% of the initially specified value.
- DF/ESR must be less than 2x the initially specified value.

There is no assumption or prediction made as to how long the cap will stay in spec -after- experiencing the conditions in this test at all.
- NONE.

The Endurance test tells you NOTHING AT ALL about how long the cap will last in use.
NOTHING. ZERO. ZIP.

The Endurance test ALSO tells you NOTHING AT ALL about how long the cap will last -in- those test conditions because they don't run them to a point of failure.

ALL an Endurance test result says is in worst case conditions the cap will last 'at least this long'.
That's ALL it says.

It in NO WAY implies the cap is expected to fail after that amount of time - as you (and most people) seem to think.
That would be called a Wear Out test. - And manufacturers don't publish those.
.

The biggest kicker about what he said is that there seems to be a misconception that the industry standard test is a wear out test. It isn't, and those aren't published. When they say a capacitor lasts at maximum rated ripple current at 100KHz and at 105*C, they mean it will last at least that long with the dissipation factor 200% of the original at least, the DC leakage current the specified amount, and the capacitance either +/-20%, +/-25%, or +/-30% of the initial value after the capacitor is returned to 20*C or 25*C. But nowhere do they say it fails after the test in question. So a capacitor rated at 3,000 hours @ 105*C could last double that amount of time.... and a capacitor rated at 6,000 hours @ 105*C may have been close to failure. That's probably why KZH did poorly in Pete's torture tests and KZE did well (KZH is rated up to 6,000 hours, KZE up to 5,000).

More on topic, that Enermax doesn't look bad. The Newegg reviews are surprisingly good. I guess crap even like TUR can last in a good design.

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

One thing about Huntkey guys, I've managed to push them into making second revision of their flagship FX500SE, 500W 80 PLUS Platinum PSU. They should be now using completely japanese caps only.

I should get a sample in next weeks, probably as the only one in central Europe (maybe even whole Europe). If all goes well and I'll like them, I will hopefully become their ditributor in Central Europe.

I'll than make a thread on forums and if anybody will also be interested, we can establish some cooperation than…

I have it here, internal pictures already taken. Seems quite good, you can tell is is somewhat cheaply-build, but I think it is not that bad and can be called high-end. Some realyl troubling things have already been reported to Huntkey. I will write the review in czech first, but I have been thinking about translating it to english later, so if you're interested…

One thing though, they could have checked the box and label before sending to printer, I don't really know 80 PLUS Platinam certification

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

PCBONEZ wrote a very good post about how the endurance rating isn't the same thing at all as the lifespan:

The biggest kicker about what he said is that there seems to be a misconception that the industry standard test is a wear out test. It isn't, and those aren't published. When they say a capacitor lasts at maximum rated ripple current at 100KHz and at 105*C, they mean it will last at least that long with the dissipation factor 200% of the original at least, the DC leakage current the specified amount, and the capacitance either +/-20%, +/-25%, or +/-30% of the initial value after the capacitor is returned to 20*C or 25*C. But nowhere do they say it fails after the test in question. So a capacitor rated at 3,000 hours @ 105*C could last double that amount of time.... and a capacitor rated at 6,000 hours @ 105*C may have been close to failure. That's probably why KZH did poorly in Pete's torture tests and KZE did well (KZH is rated up to 6,000 hours, KZE up to 5,000).

More on topic, that Enermax doesn't look bad. The Newegg reviews are surprisingly good. I guess crap even like TUR can last in a good design.

Very interesting and great info. Good ole PCBONEZ. I think Pete torture tested the KY series and said they did great. What do you think Wester, would this thing respond well to low ESR caps? I guess I will soon find out as I finally have a scope on the way

[Wester547]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Very interesting and great info. Good ole PCBONEZ. I think Pete torture tested the KY series and said they did great. What do you think Wester, would this thing respond well to low ESR caps? I guess I will soon find out as I finally have a scope on the way

I'm not surprised KY did well. I don't think I've actually seen a failed one before. And it depends on how high or low ESR those TUR capacitors were when they were new.

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

At least it fits 12.5mm caps. I've seen some FSPs pull an Antec and use 10mm parts, so the Panny FMs wouldn't be an option.

Yeah, like in the Blue Storm 500W i've seen today. Full of CapXon, almost all bulged, even the small ones. All 10mm dia...

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

That's cool, I think BS II has D8 caps. If not this one, many Fortrons do.

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

i hate when FSP crams those small CapXon's in there! I've found a CapXon GF cap 10x30mm 3300uF 16V that I can't find in their datasheets

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Here is a Xigmatek NRP 400W, much better than the 400W Xigmatek that c_hegge reviewed

I believe this one is made by HEC...or at least it looks like it, I know they love Teapo. There are also 2 Su'scon caps and that CapXon PFC cap....

It's refreshing to see a 10A bridge rectifier with a heatsink in a 400W PSU

I couldn't see the PFC circuit silicon but it has two 18A FET's on the primary

All the secondary rectifiers are 30A schottky. It does indeed have dual 12V rails. Naturally, I replaced all the caps except that stupid CapXon. I think this could do 400W

Edit: Upside down pic fixed

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Oh man that bloody yellow glue…get rid of that, it tends to get conductive.

[kaboom]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Here is a Xigmatek NRP 400W, much better than the 400W Xigmatek that c_hegge reviewed

I believe this one is made by HEC...or at least it looks like it, I know they love Teapo. There are also 2 Su'scon caps and that CapXon PFC cap....

It's refreshing to see a 10A bridge rectifier with a heatsink in a 400W PSU

I couldn't see the PFC circuit silicon but it has two 18A FET's on the primary

All the secondary rectifiers are 30A schottky. It does indeed have dual 12V rails. Naturally, I replaced all the caps except that stupid CapXon. I think this could do 400W

Edit: Upside down pic fixed

Looks good! At least replace that Crapxon- when (not if) it goes, you'll lose the PFC MOSFET(s), diode(s), and maybe controller.

Other than that...

Oh man that bloody yellow glue…get rid of that, it tends to get conductive.

Story of my life...

[DJduck]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

I got this Dell PSU from a cheap used stuff store. I paid €2.50 for it, and i also bought an Enlight unit for €2.50 and two modern Fujitsu laptops plus a charger for €10. However that doesn't matter right now. I can tell you that €2.50 for that unit was an awesome deal. This PSU is very nice and heavy. Built in 2000, has active PFC, Rubycon, Nichicon and Chemicon caps, Delta fan, HUGE thick heatsinks, plenty of EMI filtering on a separate board, excellent soldering quality, all of the components are high end. Works like new, built by Newton Power (Delta), Model NPS-330CB C. Output rated at 230w only!!! That is MASSIVELY overbuilt!

[Behemot]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

But can it power any todays system (=does it have enough power on +12 V)

[Pentium4]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

Looks good! At least replace that Crapxon- when (not if) it goes, you'll lose the PFC MOSFET(s), diode(s), and maybe controller.

Other than that...

I was torn between a hard decision....Either use the almost new CapXon, or use a heavily used same spec'd Samxon that reads 270uF. I guess I should just order a new cap for it. But yeah it does look good!

But can it power any todays system (=does it have enough power on +12 V)

Probably, I bet it has 2 rails even

[shovenose]

Re: Power supply build quality pictorial. part 2

But can it power any todays system (=does it have enough power on +12 V)

Surely it could power a low power Celeron, Pentium or i3 office computer with integrated graphics.