Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

[John Jenson]

This laptop model is HP ENVY x360 Laptop - 15m-ed0013dx (9HP23UA)

It died one day and wouldn't start, all lights out. The charging light on the side is out with charger plugged in (tested output, good charger).

I took the cover off and disconnected the internal battery and reconnected it. After doing so, I could start the computer up to a blue BIOS screen about BIOS being corrupt (from disconnecting the battery I presume) and after hitting enter, back into windows; everything working. The charging light will light if I plug in the charger (red while charging/whitish blue when fully charged). If I do a shutdown, the charging light goes out and then you cannot start it again without unplugging and re-plugging the battery and repeating the above process.

I have done the diagnostic tests that are in the startup menu. I get a message about a possibly bad AC adapter, but it's not bad and I have a brand new one from a newer computer that gives me that same message (but works fine on the brand new laptop). The battery test shows that the battery is good, but it can't read the battery status. I posted asking for a schematic (no response yet), so I can figure out what is wrong with this laptop (maybe power management chip?), but in the meantime, I ordered another battery from Amazon to rule out the battery. It comes on Monday (god willing).

If anyone has had a similar problem, I'd love to hear what you've found.

Thanks,
JJ

[mcplslg123]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Could be many reasons but i highlight the following:

01.Corrupt Bios
02.AD_ID pin voltage

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Could be many reasons but i highlight the following:

01.Corrupt Bios
02.AD_ID pin voltage

I was thinking it might be a corrupt bios, but this AD_ID pin. Where is this pin located? Is it going to the power jack? This is why I need a schematic.

[mcplslg123]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Usually brown wire on dc jack is AD_ID. It goes to EC thru resistor.

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Usually brown wire on dc jack is AD_ID. It goes to EC thru resistor.

What should the voltage read there?

[mcplslg123]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Varies from mb to mb and not fixed. But usually for HP it can be 0.8V-1.4V

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Varies from mb to mb and not fixed. But usually for HP it can be 0.8V-1.4V

I get .756 on the nose.

[mcplslg123]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Thats likely fine.

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Thats likely fine.

"Likely fine" doesn't give me a lot of confidence. How much lower would it have to be for it to not be fine? In your opinion, does the ad_id have anything to do with the issue I am having? You don't think this slightly lower voltage could possibly have anything to do with this issue?

[mon2]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

The battery test shows that the battery is good, but it can't read the battery status.

Meter in DC volts mode (20v or higher is ok). Carefully measure the voltage to ground of the battery connector pins with the battery and external power adapter connected.

We are particularly interested in the SMBUS (aka I2C aka 2-wire) interface pin voltage readings. The SMBUS SCL / SDA lines are used to extract the details of your battery pack such as vendor name / charge cycles, health, etc.

The ID of the HP adapters is a variable analog voltage. The voltage will vary with the power rating (wattage) of the power adapter. I am not aware of an exact table of values but trust the feedback from the poster, he has years of experience. This analog voltage is to be in a range of values. The value is sampled by the EC controller and then the logic board determines if the adapter is valid to power the board.

To me, with the posted details, the adapter is not the fault since you have tested with another known good adapter on this logic board.

Yes, agree to test with a known good battery - just in case the battery module on the pack (aka BMS) is shunting the SMBUS lined which can cause such chaos. The SMBUS lines should be ~3v for each, the SCL and SDA pins on the battery pack.

Post your measurements and the pin #. Do not worry about which is pin #1 or the last pin, just measure and go in order. Often the battery + is a group of pins to handle the current.

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Meter in DC volts mode (20v or higher is ok). Carefully measure the voltage to ground of the battery connector pins with the battery and external power adapter connected.

We are particularly interested in the SMBUS (aka I2C aka 2-wire) interface pin voltage readings. The SMBUS SCL / SDA lines are used to extract the details of your battery pack such as vendor name / charge cycles, health, etc.

The ID of the HP adapters is a variable analog voltage. The voltage will vary with the power rating (wattage) of the power adapter. I am not aware of an exact table of values but trust the feedback from the poster, he has years of experience. This analog voltage is to be in a range of values. The value is sampled by the EC controller and then the logic board determines if the adapter is valid to power the board.

To me, with the posted details, the adapter is not the fault since you have tested with another known good adapter on this logic board.

Yes, agree to test with a known good battery - just in case the battery module on the pack (aka BMS) is shunting the SMBUS lined which can cause such chaos. The SMBUS lines should be ~3v for each, the SCL and SDA pins on the battery pack.

Post your measurements and the pin #. Do not worry about which is pin #1 or the last pin, just measure and go in order. Often the battery + is a group of pins to handle the current.

I do trust you guys, otherwise I wouldn't be here. If someone gives me a range of values that a voltage should be and that voltage is under (even just a few hundred millivolts), I would suspect something might be wrong; but if not, there must be some minimum voltage that determines where there may be a problem, otherwise it's pointless to even measure that voltage.

It's a 10 pin connector. 1-3 are ground and 8 - 10 are 12V

I always measure from the closest ground, which would be the 3 ground pins on the connector.

pin 4 = 0v
pin 5 = ~3.125v
pin 6 = ~3.15v
pin 7 = ~3.15v

These voltages are about the same whether the adapter is connected or not.

Two of those are I2C lines, but what is the other 3v line?

I have a lot of test equipment at my disposal, such as a scope and power supplies. I just lack a schematic and board view. If I had those, I'm quite confident I could figure out what is wrong.

[piernov]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

I do trust you guys, otherwise I wouldn't be here. If someone gives me a range of values that a voltage should be and that voltage is under (even just a few hundred millivolts), I would suspect something might be wrong; but if not, there must be some minimum voltage that determines where there may be a problem, otherwise it's pointless to even measure that voltage.

It's good not to trust everything blindly. Sadly, as much as we would like to, we are not able to know everything about every single device and condition. Here with the schematics it would be easier to tell, but without that we can only guess with experience from similar devices. In this specific case the voltage will depend on the value of a specific resistor on the board as well as the AC adapter and it's not always the same. And how that voltage is interpreted depends on firmware we obviously do not have the source code to.

[mcplslg123]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Two of those are I2C lines, but what is the other 3v line?-very likely thats battery detect pin. Battery detect pin should go low(on some boards it goes to zero ,on some it goes down a bit like 1.5V-2V) when mb detects a valid battery thru smbus lines. Measure this pin with only adapter,then with adapter+battery. Does the pin voltage goes low?

PS: As far as your comments on AD_ID voltage is concerned, i'm afraid no one can give u a definitive figure without schematics. I just gave you a wild range for HP and your reading seems fine to me.So i dont think its adapter issue.

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

It's good not to trust everything blindly.

I never did and never will. Everything in electronics has a theory to it. Anyone with a lot of experience in a particular item (such as a laptop), should have an explanation of why a voltage should be there, what it does and how it could affect the item regarding the issue. This is why I asked for this information.

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Two of those are I2C lines, but what is the other 3v line?-very likely thats battery detect pin. Battery detect pin should go low(on some boards it goes to zero ,on some it goes down a bit like 1.5V-2V) when mb detects a valid battery thru smbus lines. Measure this pin with only adapter,then with adapter+battery. Does the pin voltage goes low?

PS: As far as your comments on AD_ID voltage is concerned, i'm afraid no one can give u a definitive figure without schematics. I just gave you a wild range for HP and your reading seems fine to me.So i dont think its adapter issue.

I never thought it was the adapter for several reasons, including the fact that the adapter worked fine on a brand new laptop and the brand new adapter that came with it (and works with it) still doesn't cure the problem with this laptop.

The I2C lines are fine, I never doubted that because the BIOS still reads a lot of data from the battery. I mentioned that it couldn't read the status of the battery, but I should have said it couldn't read the charging state. It did read all the other information though.

That other 3v line stays at 3V whether the adapter is connected or not. Perhaps that has something to do with the problem. I have already tested another dc power jack, but that wasn't the problem. My next move is to replace the battery. I was supposed to receive it yesterday from Amazon, but of course it is delayed for a few more days.

[mon2]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

There are other HP schematics available - you can study those to understand how the adapter ID voltage circuit works.

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Measure this pin with only adapter,then with adapter+battery. Does the pin voltage goes low?

I just realized you mentioned measuring without the battery connected; I originally thought you said with and without adapter. I just measured it and it is ~ 3.1v with the battery disconnected and 0v with it connected. So according to what you said, it appears to be correct.

[mcplslg123]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Yes, batt detect pin going low is sure indicator of battery being detected.

[John Jenson]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Yes, batt detect pin going low is sure indicator of battery being detected.

I replaced the battery and the charging jack because they were low hanging fruit. Neither fixed the problem. My next move is to update the BIOS. I went to HP's site to get an updated BIOS. It asked for platform and version. This laptop is Windows 11. I clicked on Windows and there was only a selection for Windows 10. Can I update this even though this machine is Windows 11?

[mon2]

Re: Crazy Laptop problem - HP Envy x360

Yes, it will be fine.