ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

[smile]

Hello,

I blow dust out every 6 months and I noticed that my ASUS NCT-D Server motherboard had blown one of the 6.3v 1500uF KZG cap. (marked in red)

The motherboard however works fine.

Other caps are OK.

I made this list off all caps, please suggest what to replace. Should I just replace the blown cap and all 6.3v 1500uF?

The yellow caps have no brand. What they are?

P.S. I have Peak ESR70, but the caps can't be measured in circuit, gives me leaky, 0.00mΩ readings

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Please suggest caps for replacement.
I can order from rsdelivers.com farnell.com elfa.se


Can replace the

6.3v 1500uF KZG - > Panasonic Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 1500μF 6.3 V dc 8mm Through Hole series FR Radial lifetime 9000h

http://lt.rsdelivers.com/product/pan...-9000h/7083469

6.3v 1000uF Rubycon YXG -> Aluminium Electrolytic Capacitor 1.0 mF, EEUFR0J102, Panasonic Automotive & Industrial Systems

https://www.elfa.se/en/aluminium-ele...e=25&simi=97.1

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Here is my shortlist:

12pcs 6.3v 1000uf Rubycon YXG - > Rubycon ZLJ 6.3v 1000uf
6pcs 16v 100uf Rubycon ML - > Rubycon ML 16v 100uf
27pcs 6.3v 1500uf Nippon Chemi-con KGZ -> PANASONIC ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS EEUFR0J152L
9pcs 6.3v 470uf Rubycon YXG -> Rubycon ZLJ
2pcs 16v 1200uf Nippon Chemi-con KZE -> RUBYCON ZL 16ZLK1200M10X20
1pcs 16v 470uf Rubycon MBZ -> Rubycon ZLJ or WURTH WCAP-PT5H Series 470uf or PANASONIC SEPC 470uf
4pcs 16v 100uf Lelon RGA -> Rubycon ZLH 16ZLH100MEFC5X11

Full list attached with polymer caps too.
Please post your suggestions ASAP.

The original Yellow caps are polymer, is it needed to replace them given the 10 years, since they do not bulge how to test them?
Desoldering and measuring is the only way?

16pcs 2.5v 820uf FUJITSU -> Panasonic Solid Capacitor, OS-CON, SEPC Series farnell.com order code 2354628
8pcs 16v 330uf FUJITSU -> WCAP-PT5H Series farnell.com order code 2466595

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

The yellow capacitor are polymer , Fujitsu something. They're unlikely to be bad, or go bad.

100uF

100uF 16v - replace all 10 with same good brand. They probably used the Lelon where they were less important (less critical)

0.133 gbps 5pcs min Panasonic FR : http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic-elec...rad/dp/1907228

Farnell also stocks 100uF 16v Rubycon YXG which is cheaper at 0.09 gbp, but i'm not sure if the listing is correct, maybe it was a custom order or something as the datasheet doesn't list 100uF 16v yet they have 15k pcs of them :

0.09 gbp http://uk.farnell.com/rubycon/16yxg1...rad/dp/2346184

470uF 6.3v

I don't see the 470uF 6.3v in the yxg datasheet but based on size it's somewhere around 350mA current ripple and 0.2 ohm esr

Farnell has 470uF 6.3v and 10v at 0.129 gbp, 0.139 gbp ... the 10v rated would be slightly better:

470uF 6.3v: http://uk.farnell.com/rubycon/6-3yxj...rad/dp/2346250
470uF 10v : http://uk.farnell.com/rubycon/10yxj4...rad/dp/2346252

Rubycon ZLH is better than YXG but at 0.148 gbp - doubt they have to be so high end

470uF 6.3v : http://uk.farnell.com/rubycon/6-3zlh...rad/dp/8127174

Those KZG capacitors are really low impedance (esr) and a known series to fail, so you must replace it with something good.
For these capacitors, I suspect the capacitance is not as important as the low esr, often motherboard manufacturers use capacitors larger than needed just to use larger can capacitors, which in turn are lower esr.

1500uF 6.3v KZG are 10x12.5 mm 0.026 ohm 1,540mA ripple

FR series will work if you find it on Farnell, I don't see them

Something that will match specs and is cheap and just a bit taller at 10x20mm is Rubycon ZLJ 1500uF 16v .. has 2500mA ripple and 0.028 ohm esr which is better than KZG

0.39 gbp 1500/16 ZLJ : http://uk.farnell.com/rubycon/16zlj1...rad/dp/2346453

but actually my advice would be to go with polymers .. see the recommendation from tme.eu below, you end up much cheaper than with electrolytics

The KZE series isn't one known to fail, if they look ok I wouldn't replace them. ZL would be kinda low spec, I'd look for ZLG or ZLJ or Panasonic FM/FR

The MBZ from Rubycon is like KZG , ultra low esr, replace it with a polymer capacitor or FM/FR (maybe use the 25v rated ones to get better esr, if the 25v can size is bigger)

the 100uF 16v lelon rga.. mix them with the other 100uF and just buy a pack of 10 for better price, and the recommended ones should be better spec compared to what's already used on the board



TME.eu stocks the following, they're like farnell, about same shipping costs, good company in Europe

100uF 16v 0.14$ 5pcs min : Panasonic FC : http://www.tme.eu/en/details/eeufc1c...ors/panasonic/
100uF 25v 0.148$ 5pcs min : Panasonic FM : http://www.tme.eu/en/details/eeufm1e...ors/panasonic/ (yes, you can use 25v rated capacitors instead of 16v, no problems)

470uF 10v 0.113$ 10pcs min (8x11) : Nichicon PW : http://www.tme.eu/en/details/upw1a47...tors/nichicon/

470uF 10v 0.184$ 5pcs min (8x11mm) : Panasonic FC : http://www.tme.eu/en/details/eeufc1a...ors/panasonic/

for 1500uF 6.3v kzg , good replacement would be

0.315$ in 5pcs , 0.232$ in 25pcs+ X-CON (samxon polymer) ULR series 1200uF 6.3v : http://www.tme.eu/en/details/ulr1200...8m0jf1arrx0cr/

if you're really insisting on going with 1500uF (even though i'm 95% sure it's not necessary), TME stocks Kemet polymers

0.64$ for 5pcs, 0.37$ for packs of 10 .. 1500uF 6.3v : http://www.tme.eu/en/details/a750ks1...acitors/kemet/

I'm not familiar with Kemet, they're American company, mostly selling in US, they'd probably be OK, but I'd rather use the ULR series polymers instead of Kemet ... ULR are often found on motherboards so I know the series is good.

note: tme.eu also stocks Samxon GF electrolytic series which has good specs and cheap price but ... i wouldn't use them for reliability reasons... they were/are often used in computer power supplies and depending on design of the power supply they can last a lot of time, but sometimes the power supplies failed (the series is more sensitive to heat, probably).
If you use them they should probably last on a motherboard for a few years... but I wouldn't save 1$ going with these when I can go with Nichicon or Panasonic.

ps. if you decide to go with my suggestion of using ulr polymers 1200uF 6.3v instead of the KZG capacitors, you could also replace the 12 x 1000uF 6.3v Rubycon YXG with them, so basically buy 39-40pcs of a single capacitor instead of going with two separate orders (and higher prices)

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

So anyway, long story short... a few notes

Current ripple of new capacitor must be as close as possible or higher than older capacitor.
Capacitor ESR (impedance at 100kHz some positive temperature in datasheets is about the same thing) must be as close as possible or a bit lower than older capacitor.
Don't go too low, unless you know what you're doing... some circuits won't like replacing a regular electrolytic with let's say 0.3 ohm esr, with a polymer that has let's say 0.05 ohm esr.

ESR and current ripple often depends on the capacitor size (diameter and volume). So if you can't find a capacitor that is close to the specifications of the old one, you can look at capacitors with higher rated voltage, which may be same diameter and a bit taller (which often is not a problem on motherboards), or the diameter is just a bit bigger (in which case often it's ok, but you should double check).

That's why I recommended above replacing 470uF 6.3v capacitors with 470uF 10v rated capacitors .. the 6.3v rated capacitors are 6.3mm in diameter while the 470uF 10v ones are 8mm in diameter - it's extremely unlikely to not have that one extra 1mm around the capacitors, so they'll almost definitely fit there... and as the volume of the capacitor is larger, the specifications of those capacitors are better.
Same reason for the suggestion of using 100uF 25v rated capacitors instead of 100uF 16v - it's absolutely fine.


Like I explained above, for the same reason, motherboard manufacturers often used capacitors of higher capacitance than needed, in order to get a bigger volume and better ESR from capacitors.
In some places, maybe 1000uF would have been enough, but they went with 1500uF because for that capacitance, the capacitor was taller and had better ESR. So in such situations, you can often replace those capacitors with polymer capacitors of slightly lower capacitance (as I suggested 1200uF instead of 1500uF electroytic) and the circuits should still be perfectly fine.
Especially in the VRM section of processors, on older motherboards you used to see 6..10 capacitors in parallel very close to the processor.. they used the tallest that would fit under the cpu heatsink, and parallel so many capacitors in order to get lowest ESR possible ( 2 capacitors in parallel = 1/2 of esr)
In such situations, you can replace for example 1800-3300uF 6.3v electrolytic capacitors with 1500-1800uF 4v polymer capacitors .. those designs only needed about 3500-5000uF of capacitance to work right, so even with lower capacitance per polymer the conditions were satisfied.

On your motherboard, each processor is fed by a VRM which has 8 x 330uF polymers .. which proves my point.

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will look into polymers, but the hour rating of 2000hrs on some look very strange compared to 6000 electrolytic Rubycons. Doesn't they polymers with that much difference are still better, if so why so low hour rating.

The electrolytic caps bulge, and are easy to detect, the polymers do not. So the only way to know if cap is a problem is to unsolder and measure it? Very bad way if you ask me.

Like you said the most motherboards use caps connected to each other making in circuit measurements impossible, so the bulged caps are actually good way to detect early problems.

What about my capacitors_pcs.pfd that list polymer caps? Are they any good replacements?
I listed same capacitance and half like I read it's recommended, tried to match case size.

The Polymer 1500uF
The suggested 2000hrs 0.014ohm http://www.tme.eu/en/details/ulr1200...8m0jf1arrx0cr/
Sems worse then 5000hour 0.007ohm http://lt.farnell.com/wurth-elektron...ial/dp/2466588

But yes they are expensive at 42Eur for all 19of them ! Are they worth it?

100uF

I can get same ML caps as on the motherboard:
http://lt.farnell.com/rubycon/16ml10...rad/dp/8126240

Or the Panasonic you suggested
http://uk.farnell.com/panasonic-elec...rad/dp/1907228

Panasonic ripple 280 ESR 0.30 5000hrs, Rubycon 95 and esr is not mentioned 5000hrs.
The ripple isn't too high difference?

470uF 6.3v

I chosend the Rubycon ZLJ orver ZLH as the ZLJ is designed for high ripple (shown as upgrade from ZLH)
The original Rubycon YXG was listed as high ripple too.

1500uF 6.3v

Other than the 10000hrs the Rubycon ZLJ is worse than the the Panasonic
http://lt.farnell.com/panasonic-elec...rad/dp/1800608

Shoud I really choose Rubycon ZLJ?

1200uF KZE series look OK, but after 10 years you never know.
I've chosen ZLK http://lt.farnell.com/rubycon/16zlk1...rad/dp/1831284

The MBZ sits just on top of the PCI express slot, so I wan't to keep it low enough not to interfere with GFX card.

I have found same 470uF http://lt.farnell.com/wurth-elektron...ial/dp/2466597
Or reduced capacitance at 330uF http://lt.farnell.com/wurth-elektron...ial/dp/2466595

The specifications are almost identical between the 330uF / 470uF caps with esr ESR 0.009 while original MBZ has 0.036
So the ESR is not a problem here it's 3x lower than original.

Lelon will be replaced with http://lt.farnell.com/rubycon/16zlh1...rad/dp/8126283
because it's same size etc.

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

I just looked at leakage current and the

The Polymer 1500uF
The suggested X-CON ULR128M0JF1ARRX0CR is 280 (μA)
WURTH ELEKTRONIK 870235175008 945 (μA)
RUBYCON 16ZLJ1500M10X20 3 (μA)

original KZG is also 3 (μA)

So I suppose this does not matter or does it, better safe then sorry.

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Polymer capacitors are DRY inside, electrolytic capacitors have semi-liquid or liquid electrolytic inside. The ultra low ESR capacitors almost all have a water based electrolyte, so it's very liquid-ish.

Polymer capacitors just work, if you go overboard with them (too high ripple current, higher voltage than rated voltage), they often just pop or break at the leads.

With electrolytic capacitors, the electrolyte in them is damaged and decomposes creating some gas, which is what creates the pressure inside that makes the top swell and eventually when the pressure is too high, the top cracks - at that point, the capacitor is already somewhat degraded.

KZG series was water based, and they screwed it up, they went too "ultra low esr" and the electrolyte seems to be a bit unstable (in time).

I'm not absolutely sure, but from what I remember Panasonic FM and FR have such a high lifetime rating because they don't use a water based electrolyte. FR is Panasonic FM, "tweaked" to be thinner but taller.

An important note... the lifetime rating is not the same for all capacitance and voltage combinations. The lifetime rating varies with the volume of the capacitor... bigger capacitors will generally have a higher lifetime rating.

So a 100uF 16v capacitor in a particular series that advertises 5000h lifetime, won't actually have a 5000h lifetime.
For example, in the case of Rubycon ML series, the 5mm diameter capacitors have a 3000h @ 105c rating, while the 7mm diameter capacitors have a 5000h rating.
In comparison, Panasonic FR series has up to 10000h rating, but for the small 100uF 16v that's 5x11mm, the lifetime rating is only 5000h

The number of hours on polymer capacitors is A DIFFERENT RATING compared to the lifetime rating of electrolytic capacitors, they don't mean the same thing.

With electrolytic capacitors, the formula to estimate how much the capacitor would last in an environment is simple (sort of), but can be simplified even further if you don't want very exact numbers : for every 10c decrease in temperature, the lifetime doubles. With polymer capacitors, the formula is diferent:



Here's a lifetime calculator page from where I took the pictures: http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tec...lculators.aspx

So let's say we have a 1500uF 6.3v electrolytic with 5000h @ 105c and a 1200uF 6.3v polymer with 2000h @ 105c and we put them on a board where for the whole time they work smoothing 5v, they stay at 55c.

The electrolytic will last 10000h at 95c, 20000h @ 85c , 40000h @ 75c, 80000h at 65c , 160000h at 55c
With the more accurate formula you get about 131400 hours .. that's about 5475 days or 15 years.

With polymer capacitor, the estimated life is about 2000h ( 10^ (105c-55c)/20 ) = 2000h * 10^2.5 = 2000h * 316 = ~ 632.455 hours or 26,352 days or 72 years.
A 5000h lifetime rated polymer capacitor will last more than 1 1/2 million hours at 55c or about 180 years .... basically they're estimated to last forever.

But basically, your 5000h @ 105c electrolytic has an expected lifetime at 55c of about a fifth the lifetime of the 2000h polymer.

And in practice, it's unlikely your capacitors will even reach an internal temperature of 55c.. after all they're not in video cards under hot heatsinks or near the CPU vrm, they're just thrown around on the motherboard, near the memory slots, near the chipset, near the video card slots etc, they won't even get that hot.

So from a lifetime point of view, even 1000h @ 105c polymers are good enough, so definitely the x-con polymers i recommended are good enough.

As for the Wurth brand capacitors ... wurth is a big "conglomerate" in Germany, they make connectors, cables, various electric components, lots of things. They only recently started to sell polymer capacitors (adding to existing electrolytic capacitors series) but when people ask on electronics forums about the brand, a lot of engineers swear by the quality of the electrolytic capacitors and the quality of the parts they produce in general.

The polymer business is new addition for Wurth, people think they bought some Chinese polymer capacitor manufacturer and brought them up to their quality standards so the polymer capacitors are probably OK but like i explained above, I don't think it's worth spending so much money on them when you have perfectly good alternatives.



What about my capacitors_pcs.pfd that list polymer caps? Are they any good replacements?
I listed same capacitance and half like I read it's recommended, tried to match case size.


I'm sorry, but i'm really not in the mood to check that out in detail. I'm a bit tired.

the ml vs fr ... the ml series seems to be general purpose, nothing special about it, so you don't have to worry about very low esr etc.
Current ripple is a parameter that is better to be higher than smaller. so FR at 300mA is better than 95mA of the ML.

When replacing general purpose capacitors it's often important not to use very low esr capacitors. For example, some voltage linear regulators need such a general purpose capacitor on the output and they require the esr of such capacitor to be above a limit, like 0.1 ohms for example. If you replace the electrolytic with a polymer in this case, you can screw up the circuit because that polymer can have an esr below 0.1 ohm.

Panasonic FR is a very low esr series, but considering the small capacitance and volume of capacitor, the 100uF 16v has a big enough ESR at 0.3 ohm (compared to maybe around 0.5-0.7 ohm for the ML series) that it's very unlikely to be an issue no matter how those 100uF capacitors were used.
So yeah, the ML or FR, you can use either one in this case, I suggested FR because it's a more modern series from a good manufacturer.

Same story with Panasonic FC or FM .. FC is a very old series, before FM and FR were made it was considered low esr to very low ESR. But at 100uF 16v or 25v, the esr is around 0.35 ohm, which isn't "too low".
FM 100uF 25v is a bit too low at around 0.13 ohm so yeah, now that I think about it, maybe you shouldn't choose this one as replacement... go with the slightly lower performance of FC or FR.

as for the rest of your message what you said kinda makes sense, but i didn't look thoroughly.
as for 1500uf 6.3v if you want to go electrolytic i'd say go with the FR series.

If you eventually go with my tme.eu suggestion of samxon polymers, I'd suggest buying all from one store, instead of paying about 5 euro shipping at both places.
You don't know me, so not sure how much my opinion matters for you, but i ordered often from them and they were just as good as farnell for me, maybe even better (they don't split my orders in 2-3 shipments as often as farnell.. they sometimes ship some parts a day or two after an initial shipment, annoying really)

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Thank you for reply, you have high enough post count to trust you

"So a 100uF 16v capacitor in a particular series that advertises 5000h lifetime, won't actually have a 5000h lifetime.
For example, in the case of Rubycon ML series, the 5mm diameter capacitors have a 3000h @ 105c rating, while the 7mm diameter capacitors have a 5000h rating. "

The datasheet for ML lists the 16v 100uf case size as 6.3x7 and then lists that L≧7mm = 5000hours
So it seems that the given capacitance cap is 5000 hour.

I order from local electronics store, so it does not matter who the seller is.
The store orders me the items from any major catalog. They add some extra to every part, but for single orders
that is cheaper then paying shipping.

So you are sure I can replace the

6.3v 1000uf Rubycon YXG
6.3v 1500uf Nippon Chemi-con KGZ

with your suggested KEMET A750KS158M0JAAE014
Capacitor: polymer; 1500uF; 6.3V; ESR:14mΩ; A750; THT; ±20%; 2000h
19pcs http://www.tme.eu/en/details/a750ks1...acitors/kemet/

And it will outlast even the Rubycons ZLJ at 10000 hours !

And are you sure the 280 μA leakage current is not a problem when originals have 3micro amps?
The mouser lists the leakage current at 1.89mA ?
http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/K...e5PdQzdw%3D%3D
But the datasheet lists 280 μA
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...ed54355129.pdf

KEMET datasheet:

Conductive polymer aluminum solid electrolytic capacitors are prone to a change in leakage current due to thermal
stress during soldering. The leakage current may increase after soldering or reflow soldering. Therefore, do not use these
capacitors in circuits sensitive to leakage current.

-Do not use in a high resistance, high voltage circuit.
-Do not use in a coupling circuit.
-Do not use in a time constant circuit.
-Do not use in a circuits that are significantly affected by leakage current

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Yeah, my bad about the ML, it was very late and I was probably looking at another Rubycon series datasheet by accident, I had maybe 20 pdf datasheets open.

Don't worry about leakage, it's not important the way these capacitors are used on the motherboard.

I suppose you can go with the Kemet polymers, they'll be fine. I'm not that enthused about it, I'd rather encourage you to go with those Samxon polymers even though they're only 1200uF, because this Kemet brand almost never shows up in computers and motherboards (i've never seen them), Asian manufacturers use brands like United Chemi Con, Nichicon, Apaq (Asus loves these) , Samxon, Teapo, basically anything but American brands like Kemet, Illinois Capacitor, Cornell Dubilier etc

If you can order from Mouser Europe (they have warehouse here so shipping should be small, and your company should have no problem ordering for you), I'd be more comfortable suggesting Nichicon RNU from Mouser ( http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/N.../RNU0J152MDN1/ ) , or United Chemi Con APS though they're expensive ( http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDetail/U...R3ELL152MJB5S/ )
They're 10mm in diameter though... but they should fit on your motherboard.

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Well I decided to get the regular Rubycons, as it makes sense in re-caping whole board.

The Polymer caps are too expensive for whole board re-cap:

WURTH = 114Eur
Panasonic = 176Eur
KEMET = 79Eur

I think that changing the failed KZE KZG to polymers would be wise choice as they seem to get quite a load (I run PC 24/7).

WURTH 28.50Eur
Panasonic 60Eur
KEMET 30Eur

So it seems I can get only WURTH as Panasonic price is crazy, KEMET is unknown as you said.

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Honestly, I'd just order 40pcs of Samxon ULR 1200uF 6.3v and replace both 1500uF and 1000uF 6.3v with 1200uF

It's going to cost you 0.2196 euro x 40 pcs = 8.784 euro + VAT
Or go with the Kemet 1500uF ones, 0.3553 x 30pcs = 10.66 euro + VAT , plus shipping

and you have Samxon ULR 1000uF 6.3v for 0.3 euro if you order at least 5: http://www.tme.eu/en/details/ulr1000...8m0jf08rrx0cr/
so that would work out to 3.6 euro + vat for your 12 x 1000uF 6.3v capacitors.

Oh, there's also Samxon 1500uF 6.3v but I didn't suggest them because they were expensive at 0.6105 euro a piece if you order at least 20 : http://www.tme.eu/en/details/ulr1500.../ulr158m0jg1b/

It would still be cheap : 27pcs x 0.6015 = 16.5 euro + vat.


Shipping's about 5 euro, depending on the option.

So 16.5 euro for 27pcs 1500/6.3 + 3.6 euro for 12 pcs 1000/6.3 = 19.9 euro + vat for 39 polymer capacitors.

Create an account and check the shipping options, if you're reluctant to give your credit card there may be an option to pay at the courier in cash for a couple of euros extra or something like that.

The prices you quoted are inflated by about 20% ... I just checked Farnell myself right now and I can order 27pcs x 1500uF/6.3v Panasonic SEPC for 6.43 RON each, so that's about 173.61 RON.
Now I add VAT of 20% and I'm up to 208.332 RON and add a fixed 20 RON for shipping and I'm up at 50 euro.
So really, are they charging you 10 euro just for the convenience of ordering for you ?

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Me previous price quotes were for all same brand caps. If I mix them I get this:

Well I got this price list from local shop, it' cheaper then direct from farnell, or tme because they have procesing fees etc:

100uF 16V
I will get the Panasonic 16SEPC100MW to replace the Lelon RGA and Rubycon ML
0.79 € x 10pcs = 7.92Eur

Since the Lelon RGA and Rubycon ML are not low ESR if the board will be unstable I will just use
Rubycon 16ZLH100MEFC5X11
0.23 € x 5pcs = 1.15Eur
Rubycon ML 16ML100MEFC6.3X7
0.22€ x 10pcs = 2.19Eur

470uF 16V Rubycon MBZ will be replaced by Panasonic 560uF 16SEPF560M
because panasonic did not have 470uF polymers of 1200uF
2.31 € x 1pcs =2.31

470uF Rubycon YXG will be replaced by KEMET A758EK477M0JAAE015
0.63€ x 9pcs =5.70Eur

1200uF 16v KZE will be replaced by 1000uF KEMET A750MS108M1CAAE013
because I can't find polymers of 1200uF
0.92 € x 2pcs =1.84Eur
I also buy spare http://lt.farnell.com/rubycon/16zlk1...rad/dp/1831284
Just in case the polymers will not work.
1.35€ x 2pcs=2.69Eur

1500uF 6.3v KZG will be replaced by KEMET A755MS158M0JAAE013
1.40 € x 6pcs= 8.40Eur

1000uF 6.3v Rubycon YXG will be replaced by KEMET A755KS108M0JAAE013
0.65Eur x 12pcs= 7.78Eur

Total is 33.11€
VAT 6.95€
TOTAL 40.07 €

What do you think? I liked the KEMET more because they have more in stock, the WURTH have like 14pcs etc. Are you joking with that kind of stock....

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

There's no processing fee on tme.eu as far as I know. It's just the (around) 5 euros for shipping... it's 17 RON for Romania, and it gets to me by courier at the door in about 3-5 working days. That's about 3.75 euro.
When you add everything up, the shipping costs are probably smaller than what you pay at your local store.
Just register on tme.eu and add items to basket and see the total after you add everything up and see how much it costs. You're not forced to buy or enter your credit card until you hit checkout.

Pay attention to the price discounts for buying at least 10pcs or at least 20pcs, something that your local store may not offer.
For example if you need 19pcs of something but tme.eu offers a cheaper price if you buy minimum 20pcs or 25pcs, it may actually be worth buying 25pcs, as it would still be cheaper than ordering just 19pcs.

You're butchering your list and doing weird replacements just to get from local store because of what ... you're afraid you'd pay a couple euro "processing fee" or pay 5 euro in shipping? You'd save more ordering online than that amount.

What's with the 6pcs at 1.4 euro for 1500/6.3 .. my samxon ulr 1500/6.3v suggestion is 0.6 euro if you get at least 20 .. so you can buy all 27pcs for less than 20 euro .. or in your particular case you have 9pcs of 470/6.3 , you may have price threshold at 5pcs or 10pcs so you could just order 10 pcs for better price.


Don't replace the 100uf 16v with polymer capacitors, they're not low esr and the polymers are, and that could screw some things up. Stick to electrolytics for that one.

The stock doesn't tell you anything.. they order everything in boxes of 500pcs or more. Maybe they just opened a new box, or maybe the part is worse (less bought) so they're stuck with more components in stock. Can't judge quality of component based on stocks.

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

"You're butchering your list and doing weird replacements just to get from local store because of what ... you're afraid you'd pay a couple euro "processing fee" or pay 5 euro in shipping? You'd save more ordering online than that amount."

I'm not afraid buying online, but tme.eu does not have Panasonics for example and they are very good.

I can't believe showing 14 WURTH caps online is serious business by farnell etc. No stock no sales, no sales no testing in the field about these caps. Then one should not wonder why there is no information about them being good or bad. So stocks does matter.

The A758EK477M0JAAE015 can't be found on tme.

The strange thing is I found 1 16v 100uf TEAPO cap missed before see attached file. I wonder why ASUS did not use Rubycon ML since the teapo is not low ESR cap?

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

I'm not afraid buying online, but tme.eu does not have Panasonics for example and they are very good.

Then buy what they have, if they're cheaper compared to other stores.

When it comes to polymer capacitors pretty much everyone's polymer capacitor is good enough, so Samxon or Kemet or Wurth or whatever, they're going to last more than it's worth thinking about.


I can't believe showing 14 WURTH caps online is serious business by farnell etc. No stock no sales, no sales no testing in the field about these caps. Then one should not wonder why there is no information about them being good or bad. So stocks does matter.

Think of it as if they stocked 2500-5000 pcs and so many people ordered the part that only 14 are left - maybe they already contacted the manufacturer and placed order to get a few more thousands along with tens of other combinations of capacitance and voltage values.

There's lead times... big companies like Nichicon or Rubycon or Panasonic have contracts with manufacturers where they guarantee delivery of tens of thousands of capacitors so those guys have the priority, distributors like Farnell and Digikey or Mouser that sell to average Joe and smaller companies have lower priority, so often it takes a week or more for the manufacturer to put aside enough parts to fulfill orders from a company like Farnell.

They sell 0.1$ parts and they sell 5000$ parts ... would you say the same if you see only 14 1000$ each chips in stock?

They also have warehouses in several countries and you can see how long it takes for them to order more parts if the stock depletes so you can order x parts even if they only list less than x parts in stock , or they'll suggest sending you parts from another warehouse (which may use another product code)


Also as a sidenote... maybe it's time to retire that server. Those processors are power hungry, the coolers are probably noisy, the performance is probably so low a modern dual core CPU would probably kill that server and it would also be way more power efficient.

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

"Also as a sidenote... maybe it's time to retire that server. Those processors are power hungry, the coolers are probably noisy, the performance is probably so low a modern dual core CPU would probably kill that server and it would also be way more power efficient.
mariushm is offline Report Post Reply With Quote"

Probably true but to replace it I have to hunt some sort of server from ebay that has pci express slot and could fit a modern gfx card (very hard to do as servers usually do not have them or gfx card will not fit into it), or two, then re-cap it. I can't afford to buy new server hardware. And for video rendering that takes days I need stability, consumer grade hardware does not cut it.

Yes it's old but never failed me.

My friend here suggested to add a smd resistor to polymer cap and use it instead of rubycon ML? That's better than using a electrolytic cap he said. He suggested to use RESISTOR, 1210, 0R75, 1%; Resistance:0.75ohm 100pm.
I read there suppose to be not low ESR polymer caps, but never found any.

[ChaosLegionnaire]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

The electrolytic caps bulge, and are easy to detect, the polymers do not. So the only way to know if cap is a problem is to unsolder and measure it? Very bad way if you ask me.

Like you said the most motherboards use caps connected to each other making in circuit measurements impossible, so the bulged caps are actually good way to detect early problems.

no, i'm afraid that is not true and that is not a good reason not to get polymers. polymers are far more reliable and durable than electrolytics and u just said u needed stability. do note that electrolytics can also fail without bulging. there are many crap electrolytic brands that can fail without bulging or any visible signs. the only sure way to check if a cap is working is with an esr meter regardless if its polymer or electrolytic.

polymers are also more tolerant to heat. this is especially important for a server system that will be on 24/7. the only thing to watch out for is NOT to use a junk psu with polymer caps as voltage spikes can kill the caps but why would u use a junk psu on a server system? it doesnt make sense...

[smile]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

polymers are also more tolerant to heat. this is especially important for a server system that will be on 24/7. the only thing to watch out for is NOT to use a junk psu with polymer caps as voltage spikes can kill the caps but why would u use a junk psu on a server system? it doesnt make sense...

I use Seasonic SS-760KM, it also uses solid caps where possible.

[mariushm]

Re: ASUS NCT-D first bad caps after 10 Years !!!

Probably true but to replace it I have to hunt some sort of server from ebay that has pci express slot and could fit a modern gfx card (very hard to do as servers usually do not have them or gfx card will not fit into it), or two, then re-cap it. I can't afford to buy new server hardware. And for video rendering that takes days I need stability, consumer grade hardware does not cut it.


Consumer hardware these days is very stable. Yes, your video rendering takes days but it takes so much because the processors are old and may not have SSE2 or AVX or other instructions sets that modern video encoders like x264 or x265 can use and benefit from by a huge amount.
Also, dual processor is not the same as single processor dual core or quad core, a lot of encoders aren't very optimized for such scenario and there's a performance decrease (cache misses when threads are created on wrong cpu, expensive memory transfers between sockets etc)
So going with newer hardware not only would decrease power consumption but also reduce the encoding times by a lot.

You don't need pci-e video cards as you can buy processors these day that have built in graphics cards. and if you really do, you can buy cheap used ones.
Here's a local store selling video cards starting from about 6 euros, they're so cheap because they use a special output connector called DMS-69 but you can find DMS-69 to DVI+VGA cables on eBay for 3-5$ a piece : http://www.pcmadd.com/componente/pc/...ction-asc.html

You could buy for example an Intel G4400 (2x3.3ghz) for around 50 euro (it's 52 uk pounds on Amazon UK) or cheaper, an Intel Celeron G3900 at about 39 uk pounds (and about 89-90% the performance of the G4400) and both of these are probably 2-4x the performance of your system, at least.
A motherboard shouldn't be more expensive than around 50 euro.
For example, MSI H110M PRO-D is a cheap motherboard at 47 uk pounds that would work perfectly fine with the above two processors.
4 GB of DDR4 is about 28 uk pounds as well : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CL1...808770&sr=1-10

So 47 gbp motherboard, 39gbp or more, 28 uk pounds memory and you have an updated system for at least 115 uk pounds or about 125 euro.
It would consume maybe a third of the power so if it's always on you'll save some money on energy, it will be much cooler, and will render your videos in half the time or even faster.





My friend here suggested to add a smd resistor to polymer cap and use it instead of rubycon ML? That's better than using a electrolytic cap he said. He suggested to use RESISTOR, 1210, 0R75, 1%; Resistance:0.75ohm 100pm.


Don't, just don't. Just use electrolytic capacitors, they'll be perfectly fine for what the motherboard uses them for.