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Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

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    Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

    Hello!

    I just recently bumped into this forum, and was impressed by the amount of detailed replies people get to their troubleshooting threads. This motivated me to register and start one of my own!

    The target for this troubleshoot is a Samsung SyncMaster 243T, 24" PVA-panel monitor, manufactured in 2006.

    For general info, I have some knowledge of electronics, and a 20$ multimeter at hand.

    When powering on, the monitor flashes on the CCFL backlights for a split second, and then goes dark. I can get the backlights to quickly flash on again by pressing the menu-button for couple of seconds, but apart from that they stay dead. Power-led stays green and with flashlight, I can see that the picture is constantly on-screen (check figure 1).

    I took off the back cover, exposing all the internals, and took some photos of them.

    In figures 2 and 3, one can see the capacitors and most of the other power board components. The caps seem ok to me. I havent done any measurements on it so far.

    In figure 5 is the logic board, which has some weird staining at the power input socket. I havent done any measurements on it either.

    In figures 4 and 6 is the inverter board (SUMIDA IV80174T). In figure 4, you can see that the middle inverter transformer at the bottom of the image has some black staining on the cover plastic, which looked like burn-marks to me. I cut the plastic open to see the wiring more clearly. You can see what it looks like in figure 6.

    At this point, I measured the voltages coming to the inverter. Starting from the blue wire (see figure 4 for the wiring), the results are as follows:

    Table 1: Voltage readings from the inverter input [V]

    PIN1 20.8V BLUE WIRE
    PIN2 20.7V
    PIN3 0V
    PIN4 0V
    PIN5 3.8V
    PIN6 2.8V

    I have no idea what these SHOULD be. There is no pinout information printed on the boards, and i'm yet to find any datasheets on the inverter.

    Next, I tried to measure the resistances of the secondary coils of all the transformers. First I failed since I had no idea how the pinout on the transformer was and was unable to find their datasheets. Today I got lucky and found couple of data sheets about them:

    Figure 7 is a screenshot of one datasheet, specifying the dimensions and land pattern (what is this exactly?). Most importantly however, it gave me the model number: CIOH175.

    Using this information, I quickly found this PDF, which on page 16 specifies a lot more about the transformer than the official data sheet.

    Now, I was able to measure the resistances of the secondary coils. Results are as follows, burnt-looking transformer marked as OB while the others are just O. The power input socket is marked with I:

    Table 2: Inverter transformer secondary coil resistances [ohm]

    756.................760
    O......................O
    ...........................
    -......................764
    OB.....................O
    ...........................
    -......................766
    O...........I...........O

    I got no results for the OB and its neighbour, hence the ' - '. Tried all ohm-scales on the meter from 2k to 2000M, and got a saturated reading every time.

    With these results, I tried the screen with disconnected CCFL-wiring on the possibly faulty transformers. There was no change to the previous operation, just the same quick flash of the backlights.

    What can I make of this? Does anyone have the slightest idea what the voltage readings should be for this inverter board?
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Dynomait; 08-11-2011, 10:17 AM. Reason: Fixed tables

    #2
    Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

    Is there more than on fuse on the inverter board?i can't tell because of the glare.
    And U9 looks like it may be melted
    Whatever I do, I consider it a success, if in the end I am breathing, seeing, feeling and hearing!

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

      Took a better picture of the inverter board now.

      I've only spotted that 1 fuze next to the input cord on the board, and measured its resistance as less than 1 ohm.

      Measured U9 with the diode-testing setting on my multimeter and compared the results to U7. It seems that PIN1 - PIN8 gives a reading of about 450 on both of them to the same direction.

      Same with PIN3-PIN8, 450 on both, same direction.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by Dynomait; 08-11-2011, 10:12 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

        Forgot to mention in the original post that I identified the inverter controller, which is on the backside of the board, to be OZ960. Click the link for datasheet.

        Originally posted by datasheet page 7
        One protection feature needed is removing the
        lamp during normal operation. The OZ960
        senses the missing current signal through current
        amplifier, it shuts off the output drives and stay in
        the latched mode. This is differentiated
        intelligently with turning on the inverter while
        CCFL is not connected. Recycle of the IC power
        is necessary to resume normal operation.
        Could this imply that when a transformer coil is damaged, the controller chip simply shuts down the operation? Hmm, I wonder how this fits together with the fact that the FFCL's DO light up for a moment on powerup.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Dynomait; 08-11-2011, 11:04 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

          The symptom you describe is 'Two seconds to black'. Possible causes are bad caps, bad transformer (shorted or open turns), bad CCFLs (broken or at the end of life), bad wiring to the CCFLs, problem in the protection circuitry.

          The design is such that any problem with one CCFL will shut down all CCFLs. An open transformer secondary will certainly cause this problem. One technique is to disconnect all but one CCFL, then turn the monitor on. If you get a flash of light, disconnect the first CCFL, reconnect another, and turn it on again. Repeat until you have verified all CCFLs light. If one of the CCFLs does not light, connect it to the adjacent transformer and retest. If it now lights, the CCFL is good, the transformer driving it is bad, and vice versa.

          PlainBill
          For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

          Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

            Sweet, a clever yet simple way to test it!

            Results are that the two transformers with infinite secondary coil resistances do not light up their CCFL at all. However, their CCFLs flash on just fine when connected to other transformer sockets.

            Disconnecting all but one CCFL had an effect on the flash-on time, increasing it from milliseconds to about 1 second.

            I wonder how those 2 transformers got burnt in the first place, is it just aging or perhaps some current shock has occurred in the past?

            EDIT: Could I bypass those 2 transformers so that the controller chip would ignore their existence? It's most likely quite hard to find replacements for the transformers and I could live with a gimped back lighting if it doesnt shadow the image too much.
            Last edited by Dynomait; 08-12-2011, 12:37 AM.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

              Originally posted by Dynomait View Post
              Sweet, a clever yet simple way to test it!

              Results are that the two transformers with infinite secondary coil resistances do not light up their CCFL at all. However, their CCFLs flash on just fine when connected to other transformer sockets.

              Disconnecting all but one CCFL had an effect on the flash-on time, increasing it from milliseconds to about 1 second.

              I wonder how those 2 transformers got burnt in the first place, is it just aging or perhaps some current shock has occurred in the past?

              EDIT: Could I bypass those 2 transformers so that the controller chip would ignore their existence? It's most likely quite hard to find replacements for the transformers and I could live with a gimped back lighting if it doesnt shadow the image too much.
              The usual cause is poor winding technique. The tension on the wire is too high, placing stress on it a sharp bends, such as when going from one section of the bobbin to the next. A particular weak point is where it is soldered to the terminals.

              Don't assume replacements are unavailable. Google any numbers found on the transformers.

              While it would be theoretically possible to compensate for the dead transformers, that is rather difficult without a schematic. The protection circuitry expects the total current through the CCFLs to fall within narrow limits. The maximum voltage across and current through any CCFL must also be below certain limits.

              There are techniques for disabling the protection section, but that is equivalent to removing the battery from a smoke detector so the sound won't disturb you.

              Plainbill
              For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

              Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

                Originally posted by PlainBill View Post
                Don't assume replacements are unavailable. Google any numbers found on the transformers.
                Thanks for the advice!

                I'll try asking the local Sumida distributor. According to Sumida product site, the CIOH175 is still in production, so there could be a chance of finding someone who sells them separately!
                Last edited by Dynomait; 08-12-2011, 09:51 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

                  I Googled CIOH175 and found this...
                  http://www.garelec.fr/PrestaShop/pro...7339&id_lang=1

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

                    Originally posted by b700029 View Post
                    I Googled CIOH175 and found this...
                    http://www.garelec.fr/PrestaShop/pro...7339&id_lang=1
                    Well, the price is right. I wonder how much they want for shipping to Pikisaari?

                    PlainBill
                    For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

                    Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Samsung 243T: Inverter issue (?)

                      I also have this model of monitor with the "Two second to black" problem and after taking the unit apart I started looking at the inverters and sure enough right out of the box one of the units is burned open on a middle winding. I have been hunting for the inverter and have not found one does anyone know where I might find one. Thanks for all the great tips. If you look at the picture of the inverter board shown, we both have the same inverter out. Middle one on the left side.
                      Last edited by Gunswinger; 11-03-2011, 08:04 PM. Reason: more info.

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