Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

And about note *6 which is not described in this manual.
I have found what is written about that in other manual for tx-nr838 :
*6 4-00~4-18:PRRLF=ON

DSP chip might be bad???

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

I am not so sure that the DSP is bad. Is this not talking about the inputs to amplifier? If you look on the block diagram on page 5 of the TX-nr414 service manual. I understand it that if the input is bad then the protection circuit comes into effect to protect that input from further damage.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

I am not so sure that the DSP is bad. Is this not talking about the inputs to amplifier? If you look on the block diagram on page 5 of the TX-nr414 service manual. I understand it that if the input is bad then the protection circuit comes into effect to protect that input from further damage.

You could always look out on the Vbus and the Xtal see if that is working.

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Let me correct myself.
Diagnostics mode works except for: It can not engage "OPERATION CHECK 7" - (3-0~3-14) as it instantly shuts off.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Let me correct myself.
Diagnostics mode works except for: It can not engage "OPERATION CHECK 7" - (3-0~3-14) as it instantly shuts off.

So where is "Operation Check 7" I did a search and could not find this. Never mind I found it so there is a - before the 7

You are talking about the analog input Game(bd/tv) and USB(source)?

The have a common speaker relay of F and Z2 relay.

On page 13 of the 414-service manual I wonder if one of the S relays contacts of Zone 1 or Zone 3 are fuse together causing the keys to be messed up which is giving you the error.

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Just had shortcircuited a big cap with my probe...

boom!!!!

...tired...
and have to go to work in an hour...

I dont have "capacity" hahaha to think properly now

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Just had shortcircuited a big cap with my probe...

boom!!!!

...tired...
and have to go to work in an hour...

I dont have "capacity" hahaha to think properly now

There is a point at which one can overworks themselves and then mistakes are made. One has to walk away for a time until they regain from being tired.

Also, the relays that could be fuse may be the actual relays of either USB or Game looking on the service manual of 414 page 13

The cap that blew, was it the one referenced on page 14 of 414 service manual that they ask one to discharge? You might also want to consider an isolation transformer for your device.

Perhaps this site could help you with the theory of operation of this device. It is at the lower part of the page. You can sign up by answering 5 electrical questions or you can just ask a question without signing up.

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

I do have an isolation transformer, might be good time to start using it ,
No the cap had not exploded, but it was pre biased transistor q4104.
I have a transistor with same parameters except for two incorporated resistors , in original transistor both are 1kohm and in mine transistor they are 47k...
Will it change something obvious or should I replace that with what I have?

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

I do have an isolation transformer, might be good time to start using it ,
No the cap had not exploded, but it was pre biased transistor q4104.
I have a transistor with same parameters except for two incorporated resistors , in original transistor both are 1kohm and in mine transistor they are 47k...
Will it change something obvious or should I replace that with what I have?

Looking on the service manual of 414 on page 31 there are two transistors on can use for q4104

I would "not" change the to your 47 K-ohm bias transistor. From what I seen on this site the original is 2.2K-ohm
https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datash.../RT1N230C.html This data sheet does not give all of the numbers out for the transistor.

This attached data sheet is for the first transistor in the service manual and gives all the number. If you go to page 2 of the data sheet you will find the input resistor Min and Max and typical for your transistor. Also, this is switching transistor so the parameters for switching are also important.

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Originals are marked QA? and they should be here>
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...45bd9108f5.pdf

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Just have replaced blown transistor. Back to square one.
Can u help me with answering what component regulates output offset voltage in this amplifier?

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Originals are marked QA? and they should be here>
https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...45bd9108f5.pdf

According to the 414 service manual page 31 that is the wrong transistor.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Just have replaced blown transistor. Back to square one.
Can u help me with answering what component regulates output offset voltage in this amplifier?

So, if I am understanding what your are asking. You are asking for all the operational amplifiers, in this case transistors, in the outputs what controls the operation amplifiers offset? I believe the idling current trim pots control this offset. This is on (part 6) page ten of the 414 service manual. The trim is then connected on (part 5)page nine of the 414 service manual
Understand that offset of an operational amplifier/transistors is not the same a regulation of a power. From my old knowledge one is trying to zero out the amplifier because they are not perfect with in each operational amplifier/transistors. Operational amplifiers are made up of pairs of transistors to behave a predictable certain way. They have standard equations. Pairs of transistors are usually comparators one to another on inputs. On outputs in a amplfier they usually represent a AB Class amplifier that operates on push pull principle.

It is very confusing looking at just one page in the service manual. I would suggest to you to print out each page as large as you can and then you can match up inputs and outputs easier and understand the full operation.

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

I will look again at preamplifier board as input voltages are ok coming into it...
I measured connector very very carefully now to not burn another transistor again...

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

I will look again at preamplifier board as input voltages are ok coming into it...
I measured connector very very carefully now to not burn another transistor again...

Can you list the power voltages you do have? Like standby, VCC, 3.3V,5v,12v,24v,54V
Then the power voltages you don't have?

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

All voltages that you mentioned are as specified...
I will replace all rn1441 with bcr533...Closest match I could find...
Will report offset afterword's...

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

All voltages that you mentioned are as specified...
I will replace all rn1441 with bcr533...Closest match I could find...
Will report offset afterword's...

Looking at the 414 service manual. The class A pre-amplifier is going to conduct through it's full cycle. The 0.6 voltage offset on the transistors is to get the transistors out of their non-linear region just before conduction. They are conducting at this voltage. I was looking for a good explanation of how this pre-amp fully works. As my knowledge is old and I would have to fully study the schematic to fully comprehend the operation of sequence of events. Perhaps, one of the audio technicians who work with this every day will give you a better understanding?

You could most likely figure it out by assigning the NPN and PNP transistors those values on conduction to figure what turns on when. The amplifier design will have good input output impedance matching. The quiescent point of operation will lift the DC value up so that the AC Value or audio value can have maximum swing through its operation without clipping the sound.

[Tamo Neko]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

Looking at the 414 service manual. The class A pre-amplifier is going to conduct through it's full cycle. The 0.6 voltage offset on the transistors is to get the transistors out of their non-linear region just before conduction. They are conducting at this voltage. I was looking for a good explanation of how this pre-amp fully works. As my knowledge is old and I would have to fully study the schematic to fully comprehend the operation of sequence of events. Perhaps, one of the audio technicians who work with this every day will give you a better understanding?

You could most likely figure it out by assigning the NPN and PNP transistors those values on conduction to figure what turns on when. The amplifier design will have good input output impedance matching. The quiescent point of operation will lift the DC value up so that the AC Value or audio value can have maximum swing through its operation without clipping the sound.

I really don't understand this offset which seems to come from nowhere...
Preamplifier board checked
Amplifier circuit checked
Output transistors replaced but not checked
Protection circuit checked
only mismatch is +-59v where in service manual says +-56.2

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

I really don't understand this offset which seems to come from nowhere...
Preamplifier board checked
Amplifier circuit checked
Output transistors replaced but not checked
Protection circuit checked
only mismatch is +-59v where in service manual says +-56.2

You are talking about 2.8 volts greater supply voltage. That is not an offset that is the supply voltage putting out more than required. That would be in the voltage supply circuit. You need to understand how the power supply voltage is being developed. That is page 14 of the 414 service manual. The ac supply diverts to two different place. One goes to a Pulse With Modulating that is the upper voltage and the other goes to the goes to a transformer that plugs in the bottom of the page. I would imagine if either voltage has an error the system will shut down. Being that you have had troubles in the power Amp that is a good place to start. On page 14 the transformer has a label of s1,s2,s3,s4. The one that is going to the power amp is s1. There is two relays rl641 and rl642 that active together and switch the S1+/- to S1H+/-
We check out the baetc-1074 with a search and find that we are only concern with part 5 with the nt414 as the unit does not have a HMDi (upcon)

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo tx-nr414 shutting off after few seconds

It seems when those to relays are engaged the mode switches to Game mode? I say this because of jumper J6005 has a nm under it. Q6401 has to conduct to turn on the relays. By conduction it bring ground for the 24 volts allowing current to flow. That is controlled by sec1H. Sec1H has an output to the main micom q701 processor.