Need help wiring up 240VAC.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

this is a language difference.

in europe we call one side of the line "Live" and the other side of the line "Neutral" and only fuse the Live side.
the Neutral side is bonded to the earth at the entry to the building.

you need to connect one of your Line's to each of the power terminals through your 32A breaker and then run the earth wire.

Right, and this will not violate our National Electric Code? I can legally do this? Run one 120VAC down the L/+ pin, run one down the Neutral, and then just run the Earth to my Neutral Bus-Bar?

Should I be using 8/3 without a ground, or 8/2 with a ground? From the pick of the receptacle, there's no bare copper wire going Earth. I'm going to have the PDU grounded externally to the rack through the ground screw on the back, I'm going to have the rack grounded to my bonding wire.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

i took some foto's for you.

with both ip67 and ip44 plugs in an ip67 socket, and showing the mounting holes and cable entry points of the socket.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Shit, I was just going over the datasheet again for the IP67 receptacle and noticed the three pins are neutral, ground, and line.E

How can I wire this up without violating the NEC? I thought it'd be neutral, line, line. But it appears that one line is meant for 240VAC.

this is a language difference.

in europe we call one side of the line "Live" and the other side of the line "Neutral" and only fuse the Live side.
the Neutral side is bonded to the earth at the entry to the building.

you need to connect one of your Line's to each of the power terminals through your 32A breaker and then run the earth wire.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

right, i read the rest of the posts.

your wiring a 32A circuit using one line as the live and the other line as return,
you need 32A breakers and 32A+ cable.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

i'm skipping reading most of this to say NO 16A breakers.
they arent running in parallel here.
you need 32A breakers.

[goontron]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

^ phase A, phase B, and ground is fine.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Shit, I was just going over the datasheet again for the IP67 receptacle and noticed the three pins are neutral, ground, and line.E

How can I wire this up without violating the NEC? I thought it'd be neutral, line, line. But it appears that one line is meant for 240VAC. How can I tie two 120VAC's into one 240VAC? Or do they make breakers that produce a single 240VAC output?

I think I'm going to need to find some sort of 120V step up transformer. Or some sort of wall-mount transformer that just accepts the double-pole 120VAC and provides the proper outlet. Anything like that second idea exist? Or is there a chance my plug actually expects 120V, 120V, and Neutral?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

This is the breaker I'll be purchasing, I believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D...20CP/202353326

The PDU is a European PDU I found out, so that 32A is derated (80% of it's max rating I believe). That's what keeps throwing me off. They (the internet) says this is how they do it Europe, so the plug that's on there, rated for 32A, should be perfectly matched to this unit, and the receptacle I buy, if I buy it from Europe, should be 32A as well.

I need a UPS eventually, but now that means I'm either gonna have to rewire the PDU, which I don't wanna do, or stick with the European standard and find a PDU for this, to supply a nice, clean, steady supply of power.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

For the electrical wire, I can use 10/2 with this right, or will I need 10/3? If there's only three connectors in the IP44 plug, with 10/2, I could hook the bare ground to neutral, the white to the one 120 load line, the black to the 120 load line, couldn't I? Or should I be going for 10/3?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Seeing how I can't buy 16-AMP breakers, should I be purchasing the 20-AMP? My neighbor, who works for the CAC, says I should go for the 15-AMP double pole, because it'd be safer. To me, it would make more sense to go for the 20-amp, because then it's not over-working itself, getting hot. If the PDU is drawing up to a maximum of 32-AMPs, and we use wire and breakers rated for a maximum of 30 AMP, isn't that where we run into trouble? However, going higher never hurts, right?

We can run 14/2 into a 20-amp breaker just fine, but running 12/2 into a 15-amp breaker isn't smart.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

The HPE P9S16A 2U PDU didn't seem to come with the grounding wire. The back of the PDU, where the grounding cable gets hooked up, shows it's supposed to take a 10 gauge wire. My rack has those green bolts here and there, which are meant for grounding, from reading the rack manual. I need to have everything bonded properly. Where I placed the rack, right above, is a big bonding wire. It goes from the panel, all the way over and connects to the gas line, then to the water pipe, then there's a bonding wire that goes from the water pipe to the coax splitters.

I'm thinking of buying a bonding clamp to put it on that big wire, and then using some bonding wire the cable people left for me and running a wire from that big bare bonding wire down to the rack, so it's properly bonded. That would make sense, wouldn't it?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Yes, that's it. For the breakers, I found an article from HPE that tells me exactly what I need.

(breakers) - (2) 1-pole, 16A    (input plug) - IEC 32A, 1ph

So it looks like I just need a double pole 16A breaker (16 amp per pole) and the iEC 32A receptacle. That means I can use 10/3 wire.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

the reason they used an ip44 plug is because they dont expect you to hose it down!!
even ip44 can be used out in the rain, they just dont like pressure - like a burst pipe.
and obviously you cant flood the room over it.

ip67 connectors can go underwater!

if you do use an ip67 socket, you dont need to change the plug - an ip44 plug will fit. - or it should - i will check this later, i have some here.
i dont think your daughter could pull the plug out btw - they are a tight fit, and the cover drops onto a peg on the plug to lock it in.

to remove the plug you have to hold the cover up before pulling the plug out.


so, you need 32A or greater cable,
the socket - it has a wall-mountable box with it - the white bit on the foto.
a double breaker - ideally rated at 32A and "c" rated for trip sensitivity
and the plastic/metal tube to run the wire through etc.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

I cannot find any information on inrush current for the PDU. The PDU is an HPE G2 Switched Horizontal 7300VA model #: P9S16A

The tech datasheet is just kind of a generic datasheet that lists all their PDUs and quick specs, there doesn't seem to be one specific for this PDU, and it doesn't list in-rush current at all.

Because we have a daughter who will eventually be going down in the basement, I think something with a cover would be a good idea. Sooner or later, she'll notice the plug, and hopefully, she'll be at the age where she'll know not to mess with it. However, having a cover I don't think would ever hurt. So long as I don't have to change the plug that comes from the PDU.

So, I'm thinking the reason they used the IP44 32A plug was because it could safely handle the in-rush current. I believe a company like HP Enterprise would have thought of all that stuff. This isn't one of those cheaper type PDUs made by some teenagers or something.

I think we can safely assume that a wire that is capable of handling 32A would be what this unit was designed for. That would mean I'd need 8/3 wire, right? And then the IP44 that Stj linked me too....but I still need some sort of gang box to attach it to the cement wall....some sort of enclosure, unless these things are meant to be attached directly to the cement walls, and not put in a gang box, then I just need the conduit.

For the breaker, a double pole 45-amp is what I need, right?

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Wait, this is the receptacle I need, right?

https://www.rapidonline.com/23-2994

technically, yes.
but you could use the ip67 rated one if you wanted to be able to seal it when the plug is not in.
the only difference is the ip67 one has a locking cover instead of a sprung one.

[petehall347]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

that's what i would use, but your close to the max - maybe go to the 63A ones.
they shouldnt be too expensive btw - for 32A that socket should be $20-30.
i say this because i'v seen some scumbags asking hundreds for them!

16 amp about 3 quid .. 32 amp maybe 7 quid .. quid is 1£

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

Wait, this is the receptacle I need, right?

https://www.rapidonline.com/23-2994

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

I would follow codes and treat it just like wiring up a stove or dryer.
30A is usually 10/3 and 8/3 for 45A: http://www.cerrowire.com/application-charts

The unused neutral conductor, just tape up and leave in the junction box. You may change the outlet some day.


Conduit is required for multi-family dwellings (apartments), commerial buildings, and anywhere the cable is not supported (stapled)/exposed to abrasion etc.
I'm not sure what made your electrician use it for part of the run.

In my basement, all outlets are either connected to a board that is connected to the basement cement, or the outlet is connected directly to the cement. With the ones that are connected directly to the cement, they have conduit. So it could be code.

Remember, with the NEC, counties can add to the code, but cannot take away. So maybe my county requires it? It's just not the 240VAC that has the conduit, but there's a GFCI outlet for the washing machine that's 120VAC, connected directly to the cement wall, that also has the conduit.

So which outlet should I be purchasing and from where? And Budm, do you know if I should be using 45 amp double pole breakers?

Sorry it took so long to get back. Something wrong with me. Losing too much weight too quickly for some reason and the doctor says it's time to go to the emergency room. Went from 207lbs down to 158lbs. Yesterday, I weighed 159.8. Today, 158lbs even. Keep on peeing a lot, but they did a glucose test and that was fine. Nothing has changed in my life style. Still under the same amount of stress, still eating the same I've always ate, activity hasn't increased or anything. Just one day, started losing weight and it never stopped.

Now, I'm tired and sleeping more than I should be, freezing cold, and always dizzy. When I stand up fast, I gotta sit back down so I don't pass out. The doctors office said that dizzyness sounds like blood pressure, but to head to the ER. I'm going to go Monday. I'd like to order the outlet that I need before then, along with the conduit, and everything else.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

cant answer that.
firstly we rate cables differently here.
if your outlet is capable of 32a the the wires should be too - probably 4mm conductors.
breakers are tricky because you need to allow for inrush currents.
check your equipment for the peak inrush current.
you need to make sure the breakers are "c" type and have atleast 10Kv breaking current.
a lot of domestic stuff is "b" type and only 6Kv rated.
the b & c thing is trip sensitivity.
b type can give false tripping on big inductive loads.

btw, why 2 breakers?
you only need a breaker on live - not return.
it's a single phase supply.
(or is it??)

Single phase, but we need what's called a double-pole breaker, because here, we have 120V coming into the house and most domestic stuff runs off 120VAC, not 240VAC. So when we have a device that requires 240VAC (usually an electric dryer or an electric stove), then we need to run a double pole breaker, where each breaker provides 120VAC to one of the two load lines on the wire.

[stj]

Re: Need help wiring up 240VAC.

common sense, it protects the wire from accidental damage if somebody ever hits the wall with furniture or a ladder etc.