suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

[rootboy]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

Yes, but PLCs are still used in automation a lot, especially at the industrial level, instead of FPGAs.

Yup. I write code for them on a daily basis.

So why a PLC?

Huge installed base of PLCs out there.
Companies are skittish on going with something different.
We have all had our brains re-wired to do things the "PLC way".
Robust, nearly indestructible, and nearly crash-proof.
Maintenance knows PLCs. This cuts down on the night calls.
Last, but not least, I/O. An ancient Series Six can handle 32K of real-world I/O.

Where I work, we once had industrial PCs handling test equipment. The PCs were dying so fast that replacing them (and re-loading Windows, drivers, etc) was taking up a serious amount of our time. We went back to PLCs and rarely have a problem. As for PLC up-time, I know of a couple Series Sixes that have been running non-stop for thirty years.

The BGA rework station I purchased has a PLC. That's when I learned a little bit about PLCs but got sidetracked with other projects along the way and never got back to it. I was trying to create a bit of a flow chart as to how the BGA rework station worked. It's a bit of a hodgepodge and I wanted to fully understand it, including the program on the PLC.

Did you ever get it figured out? Do you need a hand?

[stj]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

i prefer to export as PNG myself

[eccerr0r]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

Speaking of kicad and geda, I really like the built in pdf export of kicad. In geda/gschem I had several steps to do to generate a postable schematic...

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

programable state machines are very obsolete, modern fpga's can even hold the logic of an entire 16bit computer like an amiga - inc the cpu!!

Yes, but PLCs are still used in automation a lot, especially at the industrial level, instead of FPGAs.

Here's a quote from Quora:

Most of the PLCs give you the option to program in Ladder Logic, Functional Block
Diagram (FBD), Sequential Flowcharts (SFC) and Structured Text

Here's a link to that Quora question, where a person asks "Why are PLCs and ladder programming still the industry standard? What about micro-controllers or FPGAs?"

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-PLCs-a...llers-or-FPGAs

There are a bunch of answers, but some are really well written. Make sure to look by the responders name, to see what their background is. For example, some have been working in a certain industry programming PLCs for x number of years, some are engineers that work with FPGAs, PLCs, etc.

The BGA rework station I purchased has a PLC. That's when I learned a little bit about PLCs but got sidetracked with other projects along the way and never got back to it. I was trying to create a bit of a flow chart as to how the BGA rework station worked. It's a bit of a hodgepodge and I wanted to fully understand it, including the program on the PLC.

In the Quora link, a person even talks about PID controllers and PLCs.

[stj]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

programable state machines are very obsolete, modern fpga's can even hold the logic of an entire 16bit computer like an amiga - inc the cpu!!

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

ladders???

they have pins - lots of pins.
each pin can be input or output.
you tell it what to do either with a regular schematic of and/or etc gates,
or a language called VHDL that looks a lot like C, or a language called VERILOG that looks more useable.
(from my standpoint! )

http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html
another worth bookmarking!


http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/..._logic_devices
scroll about 2/3rds down for examples.

There's a few ways to program them. I think one is called Structured Text. One is some sort of flow chart. One of the ways is with something called Ladder Logic. The Ladder Logic, from my understanding, is just like a relay, and was designed to help people switch from physical relays to PLCs.

You can google it, I gotta go watch the cat outside. When I come back, I can send some links and post more.

[stj]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

ladders???

they have pins - lots of pins.
each pin can be input or output.
you tell it what to do either with a regular schematic of and/or etc gates,
or a language called VHDL that looks a lot like C, or a language called VERILOG that looks more useable.
(from my standpoint! )

http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html
another worth bookmarking!


http://dangerousprototypes.com/docs/..._logic_devices
scroll about 2/3rds down for examples.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

there's a lot of good websites now for learning stuff.

like this pair
http://fpgacenter.com/index.php
http://www.fpga4fun.com/

Thanks Stj. I've found a good bit of information on learning stuff with Google, but right now, with the trouble with my brain, I seem to learn a bit easier with a physical copy. That doesn't mean I still can't use the internet and just print the pages.

I found a good physics site that taught me the basics of electricity and even got into some basic circuits. I wish it went further, but I think it's a work in progress.

Are those Field Programmable Logic Arrays (FPGA's) the ones where when you're writing the code, it has something to do with ladders? I messed around once with a chip like that. Got some sort of programmer to dump the chip and load the code up in some compiler written by the company who developed the chip. You could see the source code. It had ladders and some other stuff.

**EDIT: Never mind. I'm thinking of PLCs with the ladder logic.

[stj]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

there's a lot of good websites now for learning stuff.

like this pair
http://fpgacenter.com/index.php
http://www.fpga4fun.com/

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

You can find all the editions on torrent sites, scanned.

The 3rd edition is good, but the 2nd edition is also important, as some chapters that are in the 2nd edition are no longer in 3rd edition (or are more brief compared to 2nd edition).

So it's worth downloading or buying the 2nd edition as well.

You could have checked Amazon.com and other book specialized sites, often the book is with some discounts but not much (since it's lots of paper and heavy)

Thank you for that information Mariushm. I wanted a physical copy for this kinda stuff, but for the 2nd edition, I know it's wrong, but I might just grab a scanned digital copy of it.

We checked all the authorized sellers websites that were listed on the books website. The Book Depository was the cheapest (half off the MSRP). Amazon had it cheaper than Barnes and Nobles though. We found it for sale, supposedly knew, for around 33$, but the website warned about counterfeit copies going around, so we decided to buy from a known reliable source.

Have you read all the editions? Is the first edition worth having as well? Too bad the creators don't provide a searchable digital copy. That'd be nice. But I would want it free with the purchase of a hard copy. I wouldn't want to have to pay extra for it...

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

that's it - it was a long time ago so i dont know the edition.

That's the first edition, I do believe. The third edition definitely has some digital electronics in it. It might not be the book that contains everything, but I doubt a book like that exists.

This 3rd edition should provide me with a good foundation I think. Then I can purchase books that are a bit more specific to what I want to learn. That RF Circuit book I talked about earlier sounds promising. I want to get into wireless communications. Maybe a book on bluetooth or wireless networking, eventually. Baby steps I guess, right?

I also have a book solely based on digital electronics, from college. It's a bit dated now, but I'm sure there's stuff I could learn from that. A lot doesn't make sense. There was some prereqs for the class but our advisors signed us up without having us take the prereq. The whole class had never worked with circuit boards before. Because of this, we couldn't follow the teacher. One day, early in the semester, half the students met her outside and explained we had no idea what she was talking about. She was really cool and started over, but went real slow, and explained stuff that we should have known before the first day. I think that's why we never got into anything real in depth.

After I get the 3rd edition of the Art of Electronics and after I finish Practical Electronics for Inventors, I might start reading that Digital Electronics book. Then I'll read that e-book on the STM32 PIC.

Thanks!

[mariushm]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

You can find all the editions on torrent sites, scanned.

The 3rd edition is good, but the 2nd edition is also important, as some chapters that are in the 2nd edition are no longer in 3rd edition (or are more brief compared to 2nd edition).

So it's worth downloading or buying the 2nd edition as well.

You could have checked Amazon.com and other book specialized sites, often the book is with some discounts but not much (since it's lots of paper and heavy)

[stj]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

Thanks Stj!

Is this the book you had?

https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9...510-us-300.jpg

that's it - it was a long time ago so i dont know the edition.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

I figured these two books I purchased would be a good starting point, and then I'd find books that are dedicated to more or less what I'm working on. For example, there's book written just for RF circuits. There's books written for just PICs, etc. I figured after I get a good foundation, I can look into books that delve a little deeper into the specific subjects I'm interested in (like that stm32 ebook).

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

i had that book, big black book with yellow text - the cover i mean.
i passed it on to someone else.
it's very good if your wanting to learn analog stuff.
not too usefull if your doing digital or software work though - it pre-dates that mostly.

this is a free ebook worth having btw.

Thanks Stj!

Is this the book you had?

https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9...510-us-300.jpg

If so, I believe that's the first edition. The one I've purchased is the third edition. The third edition was published April 30th, 2015. This is what it says about the third edition:

At long last, here is the thoroughly revised and updated third edition of the hugely successful The Art of Electronics. It is widely accepted as the best single authoritative book on electronic circuit design, and is in fact so popular that it has been counterfeited - so beware if purchasing from a third party via an online retailer, as you may receive a very inferior physical product. In addition to new or enhanced coverage of many topics, the third edition includes 90 oscilloscope screenshots illustrating the behavior of working circuits, dozens of graphs giving highly useful measured data of the sort that is often buried or omitted in datasheets but which you need when designing circuits, and 80 tables (listing some 1650 active components), enabling intelligent choice of circuit components by listing essential characteristics (both specified and measured) of available parts. The new Art of Electronics retains the feeling of informality and easy access that helped make the earlier editions so successful and popular. It is an indispensable reference and the gold standard for anyone, student or researcher, professional or amateur, who works with electronic circuits

Here's a link to the tables of contents from the third edition:

http://artofelectronics.net/the-book/table-of-contents/

There's a good bit of digital electronics in the table of contents for the third edition. Programmable Logic Devices, Microcontrollers, interfacing digital and analog, etc.

Do you know if yours was the third edition or if it was an earlier edition?

[stj]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

i had that book, big black book with yellow text - the cover i mean.
i passed it on to someone else.
it's very good if your wanting to learn analog stuff.
not too usefull if your doing digital or software work though - it pre-dates that mostly.

this is a free ebook worth having btw.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

I just ordered another book, called The Art of Electronics (3rd Edition). We bought it from https://www.bookdepository.com. Yesterday, they had it for 59.96$ (no VAT, free shipping), but today, they have it listed for 69.39$ (no VAT, free shipping). The no VAT is for me. If you live in the UK, there might be VAT.

I read this is a really good book. I think that'll be the main book I learn from and read first. I think the Practical Electronics for Engineering will be a supplement.

There's other sites that sell the Art of Electronics for really cheap, new. Like 33$. The website for the book says there's a lot of crappy counterfeits going for. Dave from EEVBlog got one of the counterfeit books in the mail. The website for the book lists sources where you can buy a legitimate copy. Barnes and Noble is one of them, Amazon is another. There's a few others, but that book depository was on the list, so I believe it's a legitimate copy, despite it normally retailing for around 120$. I think I got a good deal on it.

Anyone ever read it?

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

No, hardware or even software built with GPL software that doesn't use GPL hardware/software are not restricted to GPL.

BTW my schematic I have yet to put a license so watch out... LOL... actually it should be Creative Commons/Public Domain because well, it's kind of obvious how it's designed...

However if I linked in GPL code into the firmware of the microcontroller, the software may be subject to GPL restrictions, at the minimum the GPL portion needs to be changeable by the end user.

Thank you. I honestly cannot see why I'd ever make something that wasn't open hardware / open software. I was just curious. I figure whatever I make, if I share with the world, they can learn from it, examine it, show me better ways of doing it, etc. Closed source, then no one really benefits.

[eccerr0r]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

No, hardware or even software built with GPL software that doesn't use GPL hardware/software are not restricted to GPL.

BTW my schematic I have yet to put a license so watch out... LOL... actually it should be Creative Commons/Public Domain because well, it's kind of obvious how it's designed...

However if I linked in GPL code into the firmware of the microcontroller, the software may be subject to GPL restrictions, at the minimum the GPL portion needs to be changeable by the end user.

[Spork Schivago]

Re: suggestions for 3 digit 7-segment display counter.

Yes it was a kicad schematic I threw together to experiment with how to use it as I've never used it before. This was intended to sort of be a possible design solution to the presented problem.
...

Thank you, I understand now. I thought for some reason it was completed but just limitations of the software. I'll also try that gEDA program. I used it a long time ago I think.

I was just looking into gEDA (at their website). I saw the GPL v2 license they use and started thinking. KiCad uses a similar license. I couldn't find this information on Google (only tried for a few minutes). I couldn't find a good query name I think though.

If I make a project with KiCad or gEDA, does it need to remain open source / open hardware? Or, if I wanted, could I use either to make proprietary closed source / closed hardware projects? I understand that I cannot charge money for KiCad or gEDA, but I wonder about the projects I create?

Right now, it's not an issue. I plan on making my stuff opensource / open hardware, but I was just curious. No telling what the future might hold.