Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

[y_not]

I got my NOS (new old stock) Weller WTCPS soldering station a few months back.
Finally got all my stuff for it; tips, solder, flux & such. Getting time now to use it.
I messed around /w it last night, wow, she's a BEAUT!

But the funny thing is that when I switched from the 700F tip to the 800F, it works great, but it "creaks". Like the muffled sound of an old wooden ship, or a leather belt folded over/wallet rubbing together under pressure, or twisting.
The 700F PTA7 tip didn't make that noise.

I did change them hot which isn't incredibly hard to do, maybe that made a difference?

It comes from the iron, it happens right before I hear the magnastat spring switch engage and make it's quiet, but resounding "click".

Any idea what's causing this?
It heat up & works just fine, at least it seems to. No temp probe to check.

I'm betting it's the spring on the switch.
I tried pulling it apart to investigate. I got the plug-in heater element module out, but couldn't pull the black mounting plate/shield off that it screws into.
I could get it out away from the case a little, but not far enough to even hardly see inside where the wire nuts are supposed to be. I didn't want to break something, so I stopped and slipped it back in place.
Any ideas what might be stuck?

Thanks.


EDIT: It helps if I look at my manual collection I remembered I had while I was typing this. *slaps forehead*
I knew it was getting hung up at the cord end exiting the iron pencil. There's a clip you have to release back there, well 2 technically. I'll have to go at it.
Here's the handle disassembly procedure written by Greg (W9GB) if anyone ever want's to look at it. I'm also attaching it.
Link: https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...8431ad637a.pdf

Let me know your thoughts still on the squeaking. Totally weird!

[delaware74b]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I have the WTCPT station, where the only difference is the connector for the handle is changed for ESD compliance. The station handle/cord assemblies are interchangeable.

I use the 700 and 800 tips and, yes, the 800 tips do make more noise than the 700's. It's usually a click (switch closing), short squeak. The switch opens, and the tip temp drops, along with more clicking. I have felt the switch open, close and the clicking. I think the additional clicking is either the magnastat or the tip/barrel expanding and contracting during the heat/cool cycles.

Bottom line: Mine has done it since I got it and never really paid it no attention since it works properly.

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

delaware74b,

Thank you so very much for your helpful 1st hand acct. from another fellow user of this fine piece of American equipment.

That was exactly my 1st thought, that it was expansion and contraction due to the heating and cooling process. But then again I wanted to be sure something wasn't obstructed in there, like the spring, that may cause undue wear or stress and fail early.

When I used the PTA7 tip it was fine, but when I switched to the much larger PTC7 tip, still at 700F it started in. Even though it wasn't an 800F tip, I'm betting it did it due to its increased thermal mass.

Since it sounds like you have had your unit a while, question about the tips.
The unused PTA7 tip that came with it didn't tin worth beans. It came pre tinned and was a dull shine. But it just wouldn't tin up and stay anywhere but on either side of the chisel bevel of the tip.

Out of my other tips from new stock manufactured in 2012, I used a PTC7 and remembered from either the PACE videos or elsewhere, that when you 1st heat up the tip, to hover over it with cored solder wire and keep touching it to the tip until it's hot. Then immediately flood the tip and wipe it.
So that's what I did with the bigger tip and it's nice and shiny and beautiful. All the way up to the "anti-tin plating" collar.

I didn't do this with the 1st one because I forgot. To remedy it, I have tried liquid RA flux on it as well as repeated cleanings in my bronze wire dry tip cleaner, to no avail.
Now the area up to the "anti-tin" collar where it should normally be tinned up to that point is just a dull blackish brown color.
It's not dull black, just oxidized.

Is that tip just toast cause I messed up, or was it just too old to tin properly?
I have a tin of Ratshack salimoniac tip cleaner/tinner but I have since learned long before getting this iron that it's bad to use that stuff, as it's extremely aggressive and destroys tips and causes pitting.
Weller sells a cleaning stone, which I don't have. Is there a household/hardware store equivalent that I could use to revive the tip?

[redwire]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I hope you're not using pliers to tighten the collar- it's just finger snug. That might make noise if there's no room for expansion?
Lead-free solder is hard on tip plating, I know Hakko changed their tip plating because life was too short, compared to when using lead solders.
As far as tinning a new tip, yes do it right away with rosin flux 60/40 lead solder. If you didn't, I'd give it a wipe with moist sponge (don't use those crap brass hair balls) and try re-tin. Hopefully the tip plating isn't damaged, but if solder won't stick to the tip, that's when I buy a new tip.

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I hope you're not using pliers to tighten the collar- it's just finger snug.

Oh, my, certainly not. Just finger snug, barely.

Lead-free solder is hard on tip plating, I know Hakko changed their tip plating because life was too short, compared to when using lead solders.

No Pb free solder here at my bench. UuuuhUuuuuh!!
Just 63/37 Kester44.
The new tips are of course ROHS compliant, so they're good for Pb work if need be.
The old one in question is not Pb free.

As far as tinning a new tip, yes do it right away with rosin flux 60/40 lead solder.

Yeah, like I said, new tip, new iron, too busy fiddling with my infrared thermometer to see how fast it heated up. Missed tinning it, it still looked tinned, then when I tried to put more on... BAM! Too late. DOH!

BTW, I find it funny my non-contact thermometer won't read the tip temp, or barrel temp for that matter. It's like it's too shiny, too reflective, but it shouldn't be. Hrmmm

If you didn't, I'd give it a wipe with moist sponge (don't use those crap brass hair balls) and try re-tin.

A wet sponge at high temps can thermally shock the plating and crack it. That's what I have understood from various sources. So I use the dry tip cleaner, it works waaayyyy better than any sponge I have ever used. Why are the dry cleaners bad?

I like that it leaves a very nice, clean, good coating of solder "tin" on the tip. Unlike the sponge which always seems to wipe off too much.
Not to mention it's a much, much cleaner surface in the end and it keeps the tip temp from dropping due to the moisture contact wicking away heat.

Hopefully the tip plating isn't damaged, but if solder won't stick to the tip, that's when I buy a new tip.

The tip's shot at this point anyway, after a whole of like 2min being on.
So I'll try the sponge, then the salammoniac cleaner.

[delaware74b]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I have used the sponges that came with the station (and the official Weller replacements) and never had an issue with the plating cracking. I use only Kester 63/37 solder. I do have that RS tip cleaner but use it only if the tip gets really bad. I I use the PTC7 and PTC8 tips. The first PTC8 I had destroyed by leaving it on and unused for about 2 hours.

The tips for these stations are not expensive ($4USD before shipping from DK or Mouser). Just might be a good idea to keep a spare or 2 on hand.

[redwire]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I find tip (plating) does not last if you use the brass wool tip-cleaners. This is Ungar/Hakko/wellers used in the workplace. I even had a tech throw them out in the garbage, because he hated them so much. My theory is the brass edges are quite sharp and scratch off the plating or roughen the tip surface.
I find a moist sponge works best, but if it's flooded then the thermal shock is extreme and... why are you making a steam engine... I've never seen cracked plating. Haven't tried this:

"... Kester offers “Tip Tinners”. These are available through our distributors. The Tip Tinners are small containers of solder in powder form with a special tinning flux. Wipe the hot soldering iron tip on the surface of the tip tinner, melting some of the solder on the tip. Wipe off any excess on a damp sponge."

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I'm not so sure that's actually the case from a metallurgy standpoint.
As the hardness of brass, copper and most copper alloys is a 3 on the Mohs hardness scale. The copper soldering iron tips are plated with iron, then nickel. Both of which have a hardness rating of 4. So it's physically impossible for a softer metal to scratch a harder metal on its own. No matter how sharp the softer metal's edge is. It just doesn't stand a chance.

It's like trying to cut glass with a plastic butter knife.
I just don't see it. But maybe I'm missing something here and someone can elaborate further.

I am seeing that the sponge does still serve a purpose, that is for wiping off excess solder from the tip.

[redwire]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I don't know the exact metallurgy, but my experience is tips have a much shorter life with brass hair cleaners compared to wiping with a moist sponge.
I speculate the knurled brass edge is a sharp blade vs the plated tip gives harsh, metal-on-metal abrasion.
Tip plating is "soft" at 700°F. You can't compare metal harness without taking into account temperature. It looks like tin, chrome and iron are used for tip-plating but I'm not sure who is losing to the cold brass.

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

You're right, hardness level does go down at higher temps. I wasn't taking that into acct.
You make a good point there.
I'll have to see if I can find a Mohs hardness scale for various temps.

But even at room temp, you still can't scratch steel with brass. The brass just bends, buckles, or gives way in some fashion. The only way it can scratch it, like I hinted to, is indirectly. That is if there's something on the brass that is harder than the tip plating. Thus, when you rub against it, it rubs that harder substance into the plating and via friction, scratches it.
IE. Silica dust would do it.

Out of curiosity.
How many cleanings and constant hours of use are we talking here with these brass sponges that destroyed hot iron tips in a production environment?
100's, 1000's ? ?

Maybe to be on the safe side I'll switch to a sponge and then just use the brass tip cleaner for when the tip gets ugly.
I just never liked the sponge, all it did was hiss and cool the tip down. No, I didn't have it but between barely damp & damp. Not to mention it always seemed to just wipe off waaayyyy too much solder off the tip. Peeved me off, as I had to go through so much solder always tinning the dumb thing.
Then again, that was with a lame'o RatShack iron, non-temp controlled type.

That's what blew me away with this brass dry tip cleaner, is it leaves a beautifully shiny, clean, immaculate tip surface /w a healthy coating of solder on it. Plus Dave Jones really seems to dig 'em from what I could tell.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

delaware74b,


I didn't do this with the 1st one because I forgot. To remedy it, I have tried liquid RA flux on it as well as repeated cleanings in my bronze wire dry tip cleaner, to no avail.
Now the area up to the "anti-tin" collar where it should normally be tinned up to that point is just a dull blackish brown color.
It's not dull black, just oxidized.

Is that tip just toast cause I messed up, or was it just too old to tin properly?
I have a tin of Ratshack salimoniac tip cleaner/tinner but I have since learned long before getting this iron that it's bad to use that stuff, as it's extremely aggressive and destroys tips and causes pitting.
Weller sells a cleaning stone, which I don't have. Is there a household/hardware store equivalent that I could use to revive the tip?

If you have a polishing wheel with compond at very high speed clean it until it shine I have gotten tip like this in the past and this has work for me you have to do these steps a few time for this to work.......> sand paper will not work

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

If you have a polishing wheel with compond at very high speed clean it until it shine I have gotten tip like this in the past and this has work for me you have to do these steps a few time for this to work.......> sand paper will not work

I still haven't monkeyed with it yet, but I could use the fuzzy polishing wheel on my dremel.

I also thought about using Tarnite, a chemical based metal polish on it. That stuff is downright amazing!
I have read you can use a fine emery cloth too.

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

So I finally got back to my desoldering project and used the PTB7 tip again, but I had loosened the barrel & re-seated the tip, then retightened the barrel nut.
No more creaking, even on the PTC8 tip.

*I incorrectly stated in my follow-up post that I had used a "PTC7" tip.
That was a mistake on my part, where I meant to say "PTB7". I have yet to use the PTC7 tip.


So unless the sound was being masked this time by my music being too loud, or my PC's running, I think I just "under tightened" it. Trying to be on the safe side so as to not overly wrench it on there and not be able to get it off from the heat. Ending up creating a problem in the end. Well, more of an annoyance than a problem really.


I do have a question about tip tinning. The 700F tips are easy as pie to keep tinned and they stay really nice and pretty, neither having to use that much fresh solder to keep them that way.
But this 800F PTC8 1/8" tip is a MONSTER!! It eats solder for breakfast & oxidizes within seconds. This is just desoldering a single capacitor "joint pair" from a cold iron state, to switch on, to full heat, then tin & clean, then going to work. No sitting in the stand while on, or anything. I'm shutting it off between joints, or if I have to switch out tools, re-flux the joint, etc...

Even shutting it off from a fresh tin right before shutdown, it goes all nasty as it cools. Unlike the 700F tips.
IE. Clean it, tin it, clean it = shiny tip > SHUTDOWN IRON!
I did discover there that if I wait to do that process till after I have already cut power to the iron with the station power switch, it still has enough heat for that process to be a success, but enough of the excess heat has dissipated that it cools off with a nice shiny tinned tip so it's protected.
I must say, I'm pretty proud of myself for figuring that one out. Not that I'm even remotely bragging or anything, its just that it's a good feeling to conquer things on your own!!

That aside, it'll literally turn an ugly, black/grey within 15-20sec tops or so.
I'm sure it's because of the sheer amount of heat and mass and it's probably just the way it is.
But I figured I'd ask you knowledgeable folks if there is anything I can do to cut down on the amount of solder I blow on it & the time I spend constantly tinning it?

Oh, as for a sponge. I can't get an official Weller sponge unless I order it, I'm not doing that ATM.... nothing else to order for the time being. So will any old sponge from the grocery/hardware store work?
Is one type natural/artificial better than the other, does it even matter?
It was said I should punch some holes in it while it's dry. Just hole-punch size, or are some larger holes with multiple punches in a circle also beneficial?
Silly question, but hey, who knows. Sometimes the smallest details make the biggest differences.

[sam_sam_sam]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I do have a question about tip tinning. The 800F PTC8 1/8" tip is a MONSTER!! It eats solder for breakfast & oxidizes within seconds. This is just desoldering a single capacitor "joint pair" from a cold iron state, to switch on, to full heat, then tin & clean, then going to work. No sitting in the stand while on, or anything. I'm shutting it off between joints, or if I have to switch out tools, re-flux the joint, etc...

Even shutting it off from a fresh tin right before shutdown, it goes all nasty as it cools. Unlike the 700F tips.
IE. Clean it, tin it, clean it = shiny tip > SHUTDOWN IRON!
I did discover there that if I wait to do that process till after I have already cut power to the iron with the station power switch, it still has enough heat for that process to be a success, but enough of the excess heat has dissipated that it cools off with a nice shiny tinned tip so it's protected.
I must say, I'm pretty proud of myself for figuring that one out. Not that I'm even remotely bragging or anything, its just that it's a good feeling to conquer things on your own!!

That aside, it'll literally turn an ugly, black/grey within 15-20sec tops or so.
I'm sure it's because of the sheer amount of heat and mass and it's probably just the way it is.
But I figured I'd ask you knowledgeable folks if there is anything I can do to cut down on the amount of solder I blow on it & the time I spend constantly tinning it?

Oh, as for a sponge. I can't get an official Weller sponge unless I order it, I'm not doing that ATM.... nothing else to order for the time being. So will any old sponge from the grocery/hardware store work?
Is one type natural/artificial better than the other, does it even matter?
It was said I should punch some holes in it while it's dry. Just hole-punch size, or are some larger holes with multiple punches in a circle also beneficial?
Silly question, but hey, who knows. Sometimes the smallest details make the biggest differences.

When get to a temp of about 775F depending what tip you have this will happen just clean the tip before you need to use at 800F or higher

"old sponge from the grocery/hardware store work" these do not work very well

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

When get to a temp of about 775F depending what tip you have this will happen just clean the tip before you need to use at 800F or higher

"old sponge from the grocery/hardware store work" these do not work very well

As it sounds like I'm already doing what you describe...
Could you be a little more specific as to your recommendation /w the iron @ high tip temps?

Just to clarify, your quote of my original question would 1st make it appear I was referring to an "old sponge", as in a previously used one. Not "any old sponge", as in whatever general sponge I can buy new for use with scrubbing things around the house.

What makes these bad, either synthetic "manmade", or natural?
Is there a particular reason that Weller's sponges are SPECIAL?
Are they harvested from the great barrier reef, only from the finest sea sponges and at great expense and environmental impact? HEHE J/K

[delaware74b]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I looked aroung the 'net and I *think* the 'official' Weller sponges are the cellulose type, not the cheaper polyurethane type. I have not tried the cellulose as a substitute yet but the cellulose look like the same consistency. They look like the 'old school' sponges from washing blackboards back in elementary school (late 70's). The cellulose sponges hold more water, and hold it closer to the surface.

In fact, I think these are close to what Weller is selling at a stupid markup:

http://www.amazon.com/Compressed-Cel...782781-8713121

[y_not]

Re: Weller TCP iron "creaking" noise?

I looked aroung the 'net and I *think* the 'official' Weller sponges are the cellulose type, not the cheaper polyurethane type. I have not tried the cellulose as a substitute yet but the cellulose look like the same consistency. They look like the 'old school' sponges from washing blackboards back in elementary school (late 70's). The cellulose sponges hold more water, and hold it closer to the surface.

In fact, I think these are close to what Weller is selling at a stupid markup:

Good info and good sluething indeed!
I knew it was a natural sponge, felt like it, just hadn't looked into it beyond that.
They're made out of wood pulp, so they're a cellulose sponge. Not a sea sponge or whatever they make those artificial ones out of. The kind that like to break apart in little bits.
It appears Trader Joe's has the best price on these at around $7 for 12 of them. Scotch Brite also makes a small pack you should be able to find at grocery stores and the like.

https://www.ecosalon.com/pop-up-clea...up-everywhere/

I think I'll get a pack, probably just start with the 3M ones, as TJ's is about an hour's drive away.