Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

[MiG]

Well, i would not go with 2 levels of caps (eg. electrolytes) - bad ones and the good ones! There is still a middle range, a median class, for sure far more better then the LOW cost examples. I will post my list, from my rich experience as advanced user of IT equiepement, amateur tehnician and electroengineer from Serbia...

HIGH-END list of capacitors:

Chemi-con, Fujitsu, Rubycon, Sanyo, Nichicon, Hitachi, Philips, Siemens, Panasonic, Elna, Cornell Dubilier, Samsung, Toshin Kogyo, Samxon


MID-RANGE list of capacitors (with explanation and brand using):

JPcon (jPCE-tur/s) - Enermax, Vantec, ENlight, Seasonic
VENT/Licon, Teapo - TT, Chieftec, HIS, Sapphire, HighPower, Enhance...many MB branders
Jamicon, G-luxon - GVC, Linksys, Creative
Fuhjyyu - Antec, CWT

LOWEND-RANGE: majority of all others

Some series in MIDRANGE ware bad: JPcon nad Fuhjyyu in Enermax, Antec especially...but that PSUs are in highend class, vary solid and with great duty cycle. All above mantioned brands are excellent so in the worst case they are using mid range components. LiteOn, Tagan, Astec and Sanken, on other hand, are using 1st class caps. I would like to hear your opinion on this lists!

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

The effort is appreciated but you have much to learn.

The quality brands in your list are:
Chemi-con, Rubycon, Sanyo, Nichicon, Panasonic, Elna, Cornell Dubilier, Samxon, (Fujitsu - hybrid polymars only).
You missed NIC-Components and maybe some others that are Good brands..
Elna and Cornell Dubilier are good but don't have much to offer in the Low ESR varieties.

Hitachi, Philips, Siemens, Samsung, Toshin Kogyo,
,,, Either don't make low ESR caps or those they do make are considered bad.

JPcon (brand) and "jPCE-tur/s" (series's) aren't even related.
jPCE-xxx caps are made by CEC International Holdings out of Hong Kong and China.
CEC's website is useless but here it is:
http://www.ceccoils.com/CECWEB/products.aspx?lang=en

YOU ARE DOING A GOOD THING trying to help people out but you have some bad information from somewhere and should read around this forum and learn some more.
Many people here do this for a living and some for over 20 years.
VERY good info here compared to other places!
.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Oh, and pardon me,,,

WELCOME!

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Hitano, Vishay, Illinois Capacitor, and Xicon are also good brands but they don't make much [if any] in the way of Low ESR caps.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Sorry, you are not right. I didn't mention if they are or not Low Equiavalent Resistance Caps. I just mentioned brands. JPce brand is same so do are other sufixes on a jPce-tuX (s,r...), sorry i didn't wont to make "()" but to put "," I know it is not the same brand. LowESR is another story and it is not coverde with my post. Second: Philips, Toshin K and Siemens do make LowESR series or they did once. I didn't say if they are discontinued...I recap a planty server and workstation boards with LESR caps from Siemens (i do not remember no. of the serie). Before posting I do appriciate more reading on the statements. Thanks!

The effort is appreciated but you have much to learn.

The quality brands in your list are:
Chemi-con, Rubycon, Sanyo, Nichicon, Panasonic, Elna, Cornell Dubilier, Samxon, (Fujitsu - hybrid polymars only).
You missed NIC-Components and maybe some others that are Good brands..
Elna and Cornell Dubilier are good but don't have much to offer in the Low ESR varieties.

Hitachi, Philips, Siemens, Samsung, Toshin Kogyo,
,,, Either don't make low ESR caps or those they do make are considered bad.

JPcon (brand) and "jPCE-tur/s" (series's) aren't even related.
jPCE-xxx caps are made by CEC International Holdings out of Hong Kong and China.
CEC's website is useless but here it is:
http://www.ceccoils.com/CECWEB/products.aspx?lang=en

YOU ARE DOING A GOOD THING trying to help people out but you have some bad information from somewhere and should read around this forum and learn some more.
Many people here do this for a living and some for over 20 years.
VERY good info here compared to other places!
.

[kikkoman]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Even when ESR is not considered most of your mid-range brands are definitely low-end. the only exceptions i can think of are Samwha (do they still exist?), maybe Teapo, CapXon and Elite.
generally, there are not many mid-range brands but the price difference to the high-end brands is minimal so usually there's no point in using them in the first place.

[Wizard]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Samwha still in production. Some of them WILL pop especially in stressed situations like in secondary outputs of SMPS.

Cheers, Wizard

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Sorry, you are not right. I didn't mention if they are or not Low Equiavalent Resistance Caps. I just mentioned brands. JPce brand is same so do are other sufixes on a jPce-tuX (s,r...), sorry i didn't wont to make "()" but to put "," I know it is not the same brand. LowESR is another story and it is not coverde with my post. Second: Philips, Toshin K and Siemens do make LowESR series or they did once. I didn't say if they are discontinued...I recap a planty server and workstation boards with LESR caps from Siemens (i do not remember no. of the serie). Before posting I do appriciate more reading on the statements. Thanks!

Well, this site is ABOUT issues regarding Low ESR caps and no one here really cares about GP caps.

Philips, Toshin K are known junk.
Siemens I don't know how good but I've never EVER seen them available on the open market anyway so I don't care.

And I was exactly correct.
-> Read this report from CALCE/ University of MD.:


You don't need to know any thing else.
With the exception of Samxon [who uses Japanese Aluminum], if it's not made in Japan, US, UK -> then it's low end due to poor aluminum.

And I agree with kikkoman.
There really is no 'mid range' when buying replacements.
They are either good or bad brands when you buy.
The cost difference is so small (especially with GP grades) there is no reason to buy anything except well known Japanese caps.

.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Well, some audiophil models of Golden Siemens series for lamp amplifiers has declaration of 500.000 working hours, YES, half a milion h !!! That's enormus quality

Well, this site is ABOUT issues regarding Low ESR caps and no one here really cares about GP caps.

Philips, Toshin K are known junk.
Siemens I don't know how good but I've never EVER seen them available on the open market anyway so I don't care.

And I was exactly correct.
-> Read this report from CALCE/ University of MD.:


You don't need to know any thing else.
With the exception of Samxon [who uses Japanese Aluminum], if it's not made in Japan, US, UK -> then it's low end due to poor aluminum.

And I agree with kikkoman.
There really is no 'mid range' when buying replacements.
They are either good or bad brands when you buy.
The cost difference is so small (especially with GP grades) there is no reason to buy anything except well known Japanese caps.

.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

I'm curious! I've seen bad caps (bulbed or leaked) on Antec (Fuhjyyu) because these caps use Frontier, Deer and other crap...but i'm wandering if anyone saw bad JPce-tuX caps in any Eenrmax PSU??? I didn't...if you didn't see either than we can conlude that there is some marvelous series especially made for excellent branders?! Astec and Sanken do use Nichicon, Rybucon and Matshita (Matsushita) without massive chokes/coils...PC P&C uses ad OST, why is that I dont know...so on only Sanken, Astec, LiteOn, Tagan and Enermax have extremely low grade od failure but onlu enermax uses caps on ypurs lowend range. So, did anyone see bad Enermax CEC capacitors???

Philips and TK are good caps so it is Samsung and Daewoo. Our "EI Nis" in YU uses some of them

Here is the statement link:

http://www.capacitorlab.com/low-esr-...rers/index.htm

[Krankshaft]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

With the exception of Samxon [who uses Japanese Aluminum], if it's not made in Japan, US, UK -> then it's low end due to poor aluminum.

Well that's not completely true Panasonic caps can be manufactured in multiple countries Japan, USA, Malaysia, Singapore, or one of two places in China.

The FC and FM series of caps for example are manufactured either in Japan or Malaysia.

FYI if you want to know what Panasonic component series are made where.



But of course these factories are making caps to Panasonics exacting standards.

I wouldn't be suprised if other big name companies are having their caps manufacutred for them in other countries either.

Hopefully as PC said though these companies are using pure quality imported aluminum.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Siemens is US and UK based so thank you for helping to prove what I already told you.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Well that's not completely true Panasonic caps can be manufactured in multiple countries Japan, USA, Malaysia, Singapore, or one of Two places in China.

But of course these factories are making caps to Panasonics exacting standards.

I wouldn't doubt if other big name companies are having their caps manufacutred for them in other countries either.

I thought you knew better than that Krankshaft.
-
Even though they set up assembly plants in countries with bad aluminum on the local market [to take advantage of the low labor costs] the Japanese based companies source their aluminum and electrolytes from the main company in Japan.
.

[Krankshaft]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

I thought you knew better than that Krankshaft.
-
Even though they set up assembly plants in countries with bad aluminum on the local market [to take advantage of the low labor costs] the Japanese based companies source their aluminum and electrolytes from the main company in Japan.
.

I was thinking of a cap factory in China being contracted to manufacture Panasonic caps to their exact specs for example.

The fact that Panasonic setup an assembly plant themselves (which makes quality control much simpler) in another country didn't cross my mind .

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

I'm hoping if anyone can confirm or deny if he/she saw a bad JPce caps in Enermax!!!??? Thanks

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

If you saw JPce in a PSU it was bad or will be.
There must be over 100 posts here with bloated JPce in power supplies.

Enermax fail due to poor assembly practices.
They get glue all over the diode pack and MOSFET leads and when the glue they use hardens it becomes conductive and shorts out the IC's.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5466

Philips was good back in the 70's, 80's, maybe 90's but now Philips <-> Funai ,, crap
TK <-> OST [business partners] ,, crap

Samsung and Daewoo have been long known to junk when it comes to PC's.
The only Motherboard company I know of that ever used them (Tri-Gem) went out of business because their boards were such crap even emachines refused to buy them anymore.

.

[i4004]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Even when ESR is not considered most of your mid-range brands are definitely low-end. the only exceptions i can think of are Samwha (do they still exist?), maybe Teapo, CapXon and Elite.
generally, there are not many mid-range brands but the price difference to the high-end brands is minimal so usually there's no point in using them in the first place.

good call, except the price thing.
you guys need to understand one thing; in some parts of the world it's not easy to get hi quality caps. mig is form serbia, i'm from croatia, and here i can find uni-chemicon by pure chance, nothing more.
nobody really carries it...except if somebody of our distributors read this forum and found out about top brands and then stocked some...offcourse, he also upped the price rather high too....

if they do list it, it comes from abroad(for example croatian distributor of farnell etc.) and that makes it awfully expensive for small quantities...shipping and customs gets to be much, much more than price of caps themselves...so top caps are not really a viable option in such situation.

so making 3 categories indeed makes sense, and it's not really black and white as pcbonez says. not for us anyway.
also bonez, you mention nichicon as good brand
ater such things
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?p=2095
you can't really do that.
for me i see no difference between nichicon who has a bad run, and teapo who also had a bad run some years ago.

Siemens is US and UK based so thank you for helping to prove what I already told you.

german.

They are either good or bad brands when you buy.

yes, and good caps include so much more than what you consider "a good cap".
what you think is good is actually excellent(except nichicon offcourse).
and for me this is mostly something i don't need.
i'm quite fine with what i find locally as it doesn't leak and will last much more than usefull life of the device anyway.
so it qualifies as a good replacement part. not top, but good.
but top i don't need, as in the end it'll rot in some dumpster anyway. no need to waste money in that way.
something about swines and pearls...

Well, this site is ABOUT issues regarding Low ESR caps and no one here really cares about GP caps.

hehe....so the site is called "badlowesrcaps" now?
try putting a good quality gp cap instead of low esr.
what do you think will happen most of the time?
to help you, how big is the esr once caps start to make problems, and how big is the esr of gp caps(offcourse those not leaking)?

it's not too bad to be purist, but going overboard with it in some situations just means you wouldn't fix the damn thing in acceptable time-frame.
so do understand it's not trivial in many places on the globe to find those top caps.
instead we put mid grade, and thing works.
offcourse, if you have the choice, and price premium is small, sure, go for top brands.
knock yourself out. i know i would!
but here price difference amounts to be rather big.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

I know it's Germany, I meant Europe when I said UK. I should know better. I've been to Jamaica and Diego Garcia which are UK but not in Europe.

Good or bad quality has NOTHING to do with how hard they are to source.
If all you can get is bad quality that sux, but it doesn't make them good caps.

Nichicon IS a good brand.
They made a press release when they discovered the mistake, pulled the caps out of distribution, notified the companies they were shipped to, and corrected the production problem.
- Teapo just keeps on selling them as they are.
That's a huge difference.

.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Conductive after years of use, most unlikely!? all suppliers do a glue job on some places due to a design support, only few uses polymers that change chemical and physical structure over the "hot" years! Thats not a practise, however. I asked simply: did you ever see a bulbed or leaked JPce in failed Enermax??? I wolud like to see a single thread taht have pictures of any bad Eenermax...this would be a great challenge, aside a fact that Enermax use JPce...what kind? Well, we shal see if anyone can get a picture with original bad caps, not recaped with bad ones, only for joking. In my life over a decade using and servicing equipement I've seen a fewer bad Astec, LiteOn, Enermax, Sanken beacuase they make best PSUs ever...i'll be suprpised if ia get few links on this forum for Enermax with JPce...i'm waiting

If you saw JPce in a PSU it was bad or will be.
There must be over 100 posts here with bloated JPce in power supplies.

Enermax fail due to poor assembly practices.
They get glue all over the diode pack and MOSFET leads and when the glue they use hardens it becomes conductive and shorts out the IC's.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5466

Philips was good back in the 70's, 80's, maybe 90's but now Philips <-> Funai ,, crap
TK <-> OST [business partners] ,, crap

Samsung and Daewoo have been long known to junk when it comes to PC's.
The only Motherboard company I know of that ever used them (Tri-Gem) went out of business because their boards were such crap even emachines refused to buy them anymore.

.

[MiG]

Re: Changing the LIST. Opinions will be useful!

Bad JPce caps on Enermax, glued FETs in primar and secondar blow up - what a crap?! You don't have real example - i've think so...I don't know whose experience made that list od 2 level, but obviously they put back a fact that strong branders do buy best A clas caps wheter they are JPce, Teapo, Licon, Vent...formula is a rather simple...they have 2 or 3 clases: for masses and for the gentlemen...so, Teapo is NOT and will never be the SAME on PC P&C (eg.) and on EPoX...i was very clear best wishes