HP-Pavilion 5000

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Very hard, I'm going to try another reflow with the heat gun before I try removing this chip

[momaka]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

how do you remove the resin on the 4 corners which have has to be removed first I imagine for removal of the chip

Not sure. This is the first time I see this stuff. Perhaps acetone? Is it soft or hard?

would it be possible to make a dry run test of this chip prior to re soldering?

I don't think so.

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

I might give it a go when there nothing to do, how do you remove the resin on the 4 corners which have has to be removed first I imagine for removal of the chip, and would it be possible to make a dry run test of this chip prior to re soldering?

[momaka]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Has anyone been able to reball one of these chips by hand?? Or will I be the first to try

I've heard that it has been done before, but it's extremely time-consuming.
First you have to remove the GPU from the motherboard and remove all solder from all of the contacts on both the GPU and motherboard. Then you flux each contact on the GPU and you add new solder (that's the time-consuming part). Finally, place the GPU back on the board again with flux over the solder, then reheat again so that the new solder bonds to the board.

Sounds like something you want to try?

How many times can one heat these boards

Depends on how much you heat it and how hot your heat gun is. I don't think there's a definite answer to this, though.
If you have the time, you can try it until something breaks or melts beyond repair. It's already broken anyways, so that probably doesn't matter.

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

How many times can one heat these boards, I tried with flux and without but I think this problem goes further than just the chip or should we scrap it, any feed back appreciated

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

[Has anyone been able to reball one of these chips by hand?? Or will I be the first to try]Added this photo incase some thing has been missed.[/QUOTE]

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Added this photo incase some thing has been missed.

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Went ahead with flux twice today and nothing has changed!!
Even borrowed another good heat gun that I tested on another scrap board and removed a chip within 4 minits at 200c. I then tried it out on Hp board for a 5 minits moving 360 all the time.
I am begining to think that the video chip is fried and useless even after reballing, by the way gpu/nb is the Nvidia video chip right??

[NxB]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Don't use the flux, it makes a mess and may make the balls bond together or the chip detach and move. Reballing should last forever but is... hard.

I do 360c for 10-15 minutes in circles on gpu/nb. This works for xbox 360 too. If you fluxed it, that would be too long. You can also put a piece of solder on top of the chip and stop when it melts. Just don't blow it somewhere.

[momaka]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

How should I get the flux under the GPU as theres no space between the MB and the chip or do you mean on the smd bottom side?
Should the flux be the liquid or grease type?

Use liquid type, and NOT acid based. Pour it between the GPU and the board.

I tried the gun on a scrap board today but I did not get the solder to a molten state running at 220c - 250c for around 15m's eventually a diode did come off but the solder remains hard?

Interesting. I don't know, maybe your heat gun isn't powerful enough. 15 minutes is way too much though. Don't heat the board for more than 5 minutes.

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

How should I get the flux under the GPU as theres no space between the MB and the chip or do you mean on the smd bottom side?
Should the flux be the liquid or grease type?
I tried the gun on a scrap board today but I did not get the solder to a molten state running at 220c - 250c for around 15m's eventually a diode did come off but the solder remains hard?

[momaka]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

You're right it was a heat gun, the hair dryer was a comic about the Nvidia chip problem. I gave it shot yesturday with a heat gun running at around 250 - 300c for 5 minits put it together and still nothing to brag about.
The other video I saw was using a propane heat source and adding flux before and before cooling on the botton side of the chip where all the diods etc are placed. I think I will try this one out when I get the pen light propane torch!
Any other ideas are always welcome at this stage.

Well, you should use flux regardless of whether you're using a heat gun or a propane torch. The flux is what allows those solder balls under the GPU to bond much more easily.

With that said, I would recommend you hold back on using the torch and try the heat gun again, this time with flux. What you want to do is first add flux under the GPU, then heat the whole board to around 80C-90C. Once you get to that point, begin heating only the area around the GPU. When the flux starts boiling or bubbling, focus the heat gun close to the GPU and keep heating it for about 2-3 minutes. DON'T keep the heat gun stationary over the GPU, though - this can create hot spots over the GPU and make it pop/destroy it (this is exactly the reason why a blow torch/propane torch is NOT recommended). Also, be careful NOT to knock, tap, or move the board when the flux starts bubbling. If you do, you may bridge or destroy the joints under the GPU.

If the heat gun method doesn't work again, then try the propane torch. But again, be careful with it for the reasons I mentioned above.

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

You're right it was a heat gun, the hair dryer was a comic about the Nvidia chip problem. I gave it shot yesturday with a heat gun running at around 250 - 300c for 5 minits put it together and still nothing to brag about.
The other video I saw was using a propane heat source and adding flux before and before cooling on the botton side of the chip where all the diods etc are placed. I think I will try this one out when I get the pen light propane torch!
Any other ideas are always welcome at this stage.

[ratdude747]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

The "hair dryer" in those videos is probably a heat gun. A hair dryer doesn't output a high enough temperature to fix the issue.

hair dryer:



heat gun:



heat guns have a bare metal tip... hair dryers do not (plastic or painted metal)

[momaka]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

For the reballing part I don't have the equipment but I did notice after a few searches that this machine is prone to this problem, then there is the utube videos that show a hair dryer heating the nvidia chip with MB encased in aluminum foil and the pc works, is this worth a try and what would the recomended heat be for such an operation?

The "hair dryer" in those videos is probably a heat gun. A hair dryer doesn't output a high enough temperature to fix the issue.

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

I can see that comment didn't get anyones appraisal!!!

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

For the reballing part I don't have the equipment but I did notice after a few searches that this machine is prone to this problem, then there is the utube videos that show a hair dryer heating the nvidia chip with MB encased in aluminum foil and the pc works, is this worth a try and what would the recomended heat be for such an operation?

[lin4sm]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Here is the link in wikipedia for reflow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflow_soldering
and other one for reballing bga chips: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rework_%28electronics%29 or according to wiki it is rework proces.
You need special tools and experence for that. If you don't have tools don't do at home. It have to be temperature controled process.
I would recommend first to find out what part exactly is not working. Just like someone said previuosly remove all parts and start testing with known working ones.

[rigeback]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Thanks for the info I am going try swapping out the ram with another machine today.
What exactly is this reballing of the chips and how is done?

[lin4sm]

Re: HP-Pavilion 5000

Just tried it without wireless card, dvd drive and HDD, with and without memory still the same power led flashing.
The sticker says its got a nvidia video card or is this built into the MB?

HP Pavilion or the other model that have a nvidia or ati chips common problem is overheating. So the north bridge chip or nvidia/ati chip or both contacts are cracked, oxidised and etc.
It might be that reflow or reballing of the chips would help to fix this computer.
I have done reflow for 4 laptops with nvidia and ati chips Packard Bell Minos, HP DV9000, HP DV5 and one of the Asus (cannot remember model). All 4 are working ok now. Still in testing stage for couple weeks but no problems at them moment.
If reflow done properly it is still not the best option. Reballing holds 6 months or longer.
Before trying to do one of the mentioned things, try to check all parts. Some of the laptops with blinking lights have problems with ram, try to change into good working ram. Also check contacts in mainboard, try to clean with spirit or other solution sometimes it can help, never know.