Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

[tjg79]

Hi,

I'm recapping an LG Flatron L227WTG PF monitor and I can't find the specs on a Su'scon SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C that was located on the power board. The Su'scon SG Series spec sheet that I was able to find doesn't show a 33uF 50v cap in the matrix.

One of the numbers on the cap is 0811(M) which I suspect is a date code.

Does anyone know the specs for this capacitor or where I can find an older or newer SG Series spec sheet that may have the specs. I suspect that this sized capacitor was either deleted or added from the SG Series and the SG Series spec sheet that I have is either obsolete or dated subsequent to the change.

Thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards

[mariushm]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

The specs would be between the 22uF and the 56uF shown in the datasheet.

You can safely use Nichicon PW, UCC KZE and if you want overkill (and expensive) Rubycon RX30, Nichicon BW..


N PW http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1895-ND/589636
U KZE http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1719-ND/756235
R RX30 http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...312-ND/3563302
N BW http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...MPD-ND/2428138

In the worst case scenario, Panasonic FC should work OK even though the specs are a bit worse than the Su'scon specs (whatever those would be, estimating them)

P FC http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...0320-ND/266329

[c_hegge]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

^
Bear in mind that Nichicon PW have exactly the same specs as Panny FC, and thus they belong in the "worst case scenario" bottom list.

[mariushm]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

Not quite the same.

PW = Ripple Current 300mA Impedance 430 mOhm 2000h@105c
FC = Ripple Current 260mA Impedance 600 mOhm 1000h@105c

But for what it's probably used, it should be good enough.

[mockingbird]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

Indeed, this particular PW part has a better spec. Lower ESR, better endurance, and better ripple.

Oddly enough, the Panasonic part is 0.2 mm taller. I wonder what the deal with that is.

[lti]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

I think UCC KZE is equivalent to Su'scon SG.

[lexwalker]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

I'm recapping an LG Flatron L227WTG PF monitor and I can't find the specs on a Su'scon SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C that was located on the power board. The Su'scon SG Series spec sheet that I was able to find doesn't show a 33uF 50v cap in the matrix.

One of the numbers on the cap is 0811(M) which I suspect is a date code.

Does anyone know the specs for this capacitor or where I can find an older or newer SG Series spec sheet that may have the specs. I suspect that this sized capacitor was either deleted or added from the SG Series and the SG Series spec sheet that I have is either obsolete or dated subsequent to the change.

Thanks for your assistance.

Best Regards

What was the size of that capacitor? Quite often can predict both its ripple current and ESR from the size (just look carefully at the datasheet and notice the pattern)...

I think UCC KZE is equivalent to Su'scon SG.

Indeed, as these are ultra low ESR capacitors thus can count the likes of Panasonic FC series and Nichicon PW series (as well as Nichicon HE series) out of the picture. Comparing specifications the closest to Su'scon SG series at lower capacitance values would be Nippon Chemicon KZE series, while at higher capacitance values would be Panasonic FM series. Both Rubycon ZLH series and Panasonic FR series can get quite close as well...

[tjg79]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

What was the size of that capacitor? Quite often can predict both its ripple current and ESR from the size (just look carefully at the datasheet and notice the pattern)...

I measured the size of the Su'scon 33uF 50v SG Series 105˚C as: 6.5x10.9 (DxL) 2.33 (Leg Spacing) 0.49 (Lead Diameter). The hole spacing on the board is 4.95.

I was trying to interpolate the ripple current from the matrix, but wanted to check with the forum before I made the replacement purchase. I would like to match the original (unknown) specs for this cap as closely as possible with a high quality good cap.

Thanks for all the suggested replacements. I'm studying the suggested datasheets to determine which is the best choice based on availability. I'll likely have a few other questions once I analyze and digest the datasheets.

[lexwalker]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

I measured the size of the Su'scon 33uF 50v SG Series 105˚C as: 6.5x10.9 (DxL) 2.33 (Leg Spacing) 0.49 (Lead Diameter). The hole spacing on the board is 4.95.

That should be roughly 6.3x11 (DxL), and 2.5mm lead pitch. The through holes distance on the PCB is the usual 5mm...

I was trying to interpolate the ripple current from the matrix, but wanted to check with the forum before I made the replacement purchase. I would like to match the original (unknown) specs for this cap as closely as possible with a high quality good cap.

Look at the attached image. See the pattern? Should be around 400mA for ripple current handling, and around 0.14 Ohm for impedance/ESR....

Thanks for all the suggested replacements. I'm studying the suggested datasheets to determine which is the best choice based on availability. I'll likely have a few other questions once I analyze and digest the datasheets.

Sometimes if you can't find one at the desired ratings, then look for another at a higher voltage...

For example...
- Su'scon SG, 1000uF 25VDC 105C, 13x21mm, 2360mA@100kHz, 0.021R@100kHz, 5000h

Usual replacement would be...
- Nippon Chemi-con KZE, 1000uF 25VDC 105C, 12.5x20mm, 2360mA@100kHz, 0.021R@100kHz, 5000h
...or...
- Panasonic FM, 1000uF 25VDC 105C, 12.5x20mm, 2600mA@100kHz, 0.018R@100kHz, 5000h

If those are not available then an alternative replacement would be...
- Rubycon ZLH, 1000uF 35VDC 105C, 12.5x20mm, 2480mA@100kHz, 0.017R@100kHz, 10000h

All of them have very close specifications, in terms of impedance/ESR and ripple current...

[tjg79]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

Look at the attached image. See the pattern? Should be around 400mA for ripple current handling, and around 0.14 Ohm for impedance/ESR....

Sometimes if you can't find one at the desired ratings, then look for another at a higher voltage...

Thanks for that information. I see the pattern.

My Su'scon SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C tested good, but since this LG monitor failed to start several months ago and several of the other Su'scon caps had bulging tops and tested bad, I decided to replace all of them.

The Su'scon SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C tested (out of circuit) with a Peak Atlas ESR70 yielded the following: Capacitance: 31.68uF, ESR: 0.11Ω

I have two of these LG monitors and the second one started to fail a few days ago and failed completely today. I'm running out of monitors so I decided it was time to recap my two LG Flatron L227WTG PF monitors, before I lost my only standby, a LG Flatron E2441.

[tjg79]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

FYI

I contacted Su'scon via their website to inquire about the specs for the SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C cap not listed on their SG Series datasheet. They replied the same day with the specs which are indicated below.

SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C
Capacitance Tolerance: ±20% (120Hz, 20°C)
Operating Temperature Range: -40 - +105°C
Leakage Current: 16uA Max at 20˚C for 2 minutes
Dissipation Factor (tan d): 0.07% Max at 20˚C, 120 Hz
Load Life: 2,000hours, with application of working voltage at 105°C
Standard Ratings: 6.3x11 DxL; 260mA rms at 105°C, 100KHz R.C.; 0.340Ω max at 20°C, 100KHz IMP
Leg Spacing: 2.50
Lead Diameter: 0.5

The R.C. was a bit lower than I expected.

Regards

[lexwalker]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

FYI

I contacted Su'scon via their website to inquire about the specs for the SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C cap not listed on their SG Series datasheet. They replied the same day with the specs which are indicated below.

SG Series 50v 33uF 105˚C
Capacitance Tolerance: ±20% (120Hz, 20°C)
Operating Temperature Range: -40 - +105°C
Leakage Current: 16uA Max at 20˚C for 2 minutes
Dissipation Factor (tan d): 0.07% Max at 20˚C, 120 Hz
Load Life: 2,000hours, with application of working voltage at 105°C
Standard Ratings: 6.3x11 DxL; 260mA rms at 105°C, 100KHz R.C.; 0.340Ω max at 20°C, 100KHz IMP
Leg Spacing: 2.50
Lead Diameter: 0.5

The R.C. was a bit lower than I expected.

Regards

That sounds more like 5x11m size capacitor specifications. Just look at 22uF 50VDC in the datasheet. The ripple current specifications should be better as the can size increases and at higher capacitance (can see that pattern of increasing ripple current and decreasing impedance on the datasheet as well). I have a feeling they simply pulled it off from 22uF 50VDC on the datasheet and interpolate with 33uF 35VDC (which is 5x11mm size!). On the other hand, I could be wrong though (could be a 5x11mm capacitor inside a 6.3x11mm size can, although your ESR meter says otherwise)....

[tjg79]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series



Attached is the datasheet I received.

My first impression was that they got the ripple current and impedance wrong for the case size.

[lexwalker]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

Attached is the datasheet I received.

My first impression was that they got the ripple current and impedance wrong for the case size.

Yups, they could got it wrong or mixed up. Or perhaps this one is from a different capacitor OEM (from the datasheet). Seems Su'scon also gets its capacitors from another factory...

See the attached image. This one is from a very reputable manufacturer, Panasonic. Its their FR series. Notice again how the can size relates to both ripple current and impedance/ESR despite the differences in voltage and capacitance...

[tjg79]

Re: Recap Replacement for Su'scon SG Series

Yups, they could got it wrong or mixed up. Or perhaps this one is from a different capacitor OEM (from the datasheet). Seems Su'scon also gets its capacitors from another factory...

See the attached image. This one is from a very reputable manufacturer, Panasonic. Its their FR series. Notice again how the can size relates to both ripple current and impedance/ESR despite the differences in voltage and capacitance...

For every general rule, there are exceptions.

I was surprised by the ripple current and impedance numbers and I'm still trying to interpret the pattern.