Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

[Dan81]

Just started this thread to tell the story of this PSU.

It all started yesterday,when I wanted to get a new PSU for one of my PCs,and knowing Sun Pro can be sometimes decent (and it quite is on this one) I got this Sumvision KY-450ATX PSU that was rated for 350W. Here's what it claims:

High efficiency - with the caps SunPro provides....yeah sure
Low noise and ripple - haven't got any tester so anybody can chime in and have a good look at that

Short-circuit protection on all outputs - really?

100% burn-in under high ambient temperature - sure does,PCB quite darkened

Upon opening it I was quite surpised by the fact that it had an input choke - that's good,I guess. Board is labeled something else - no,it's not AT-2005B.

Caps and the replacements:

Secondary:
JEE 470uf 16V - Nichicon PJ 560uF 16v
SC 1000uF 10V - Rubycon ZL 1200uf 16v
SC 3300uF 16V - bulged - UCC KZE 1200uF 16V
2x JEE 470uF 16V - Nichicon PJ 560uf 16v.

Primary:
2x HEC 330uF 200WV - Saturn (YC) 330uf 200V caps (might put the HEC caps back though)

Voltages are quite good, 3.3 is within spec (can't remember exact voltage from the top of my head),+5 and -5 are at 4.80V (so within spec) and 12V is around 12.60-12.73V. For the 12V I'm quite blaming the primaries,going to swap the HEC back and see if everything goes fine.

Stay tuned,as maybe next week some pics will come. Oh,and the transformer on this one is a ER-35C.

[momaka]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Does it look anything like this?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=883

If yes, especially the heatsinks - strip it for parts. These PSUs are very inefficient and kick out a lot of heat even with almost no load.
I hope you didn't pay too much for it.

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Does it look anything like this?
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...&postcount=883

If yes, especially the heatsinks - strip it for parts. These PSUs are very inefficient and kick out a lot of heat even with almost no load.
I hope you didn't pay too much for it.

Other than the usual Te Bao markings,the only thing looking like that is only one fin of the secondary heatsink. The rest of the heatsinks look like Codegen (even though they aren't).

The rest is a ERI-35 transformer (that one in the pics has a EI-33 transformer),PCB on the AC plug (a coil and a EMI cap on it),and for the input filtering it has a choke and another EMI cap. The second one (there's another place for a EMI cap) is missing. Primaries are HEC 330uf and the secondary side (at this moment) is having good caps - an Chemicon KZE,a Rubycon ZL (both 16v 1200uF,replaced 2 bulgers) and rest of the old 470uf 16v JEE caps are now replaced with Nichicon PJ 560uf.

Oh,and the PCB reads TB-1.2 instead of AT-2005B. (or whatever that Raidmax said on the PCB). Good thing I noticed though,is that it uses a chip for the 5VSB.

Forgot saying,I paid $2.55 for it,which means 10 RON here.

[momaka]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

I guess not bad for the price. Pretty much all of the parts inside it are worth that much.
And good thing yours has a chip for the 5VSB... unless the PSU is a STF topology and you are confusing that with the primary-side PWM driver. How many transformers are in the PSU? 2 or 3?

Also, that ERI-35 transformer may not be a real "35" size. Deer does it all the time with their cheaper L&C units - just slaps a "35" label on a "33" main traffo.

Lastly, all of those numerous 16V 470uF output caps suggests the output filtering was undersized to begin with. So you always need to keep that in mind when recapping. In general, it is good to have at least 2x 1200uF caps on the 5V rail, 2x 1200uF caps on the 3.3V rail, and one 1500 uF or two 1000uF on the 12V rail. Going below that will likely result in excessive ripple.

the only thing looking like that is only one fin of the secondary heatsink.

Wait, so the secondary heatsink in your PSU looks the same as in mine? If yes, that's terrible. That's the main reason I didn't decide to "fix-up" mine (and I do like trying to fix-up everything I have, even very crappy units... but this one was a bit too much ).

Anyways, at least you put good caps in it. Make sure to oil the fan if it's a Tea Bao. Also, where are the pictures? You know we love pics at BCN!

[Behemot]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

SC 3300uF 16V - bulged - UCC KZE 1200uF 16V

That's too down man, drop me a PM, I have Samxons RS 3300/16 D10.

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

SC 3300uF 16V - bulged - UCC KZE 1200uF 16V

That's too down man, drop me a PM, I have Samxons RS 3300/16 D10.

I didn't see any promblems in running the PSU with 2x 1200uF caps. In fact,I did the same thing to a ASRock motherboard that had 3300uF 6.3V KZG caps - replaced them with 1500uf 6.3v G-Luxons (the only caps I had at that time). And that mobo was having a Pentium 4 CPU.

momaka - There are 3 transformers in the PSU. As for the fan,it was so dusty I replaced it with a better one. (a Delta fan or something that loud. And for pics,need to wait for my Nikon to arrive. And for that ERI-35C,I'm going to check later if there is a spot for a larger one. Also I'm going to do some measurements between it and a dead Deer I have that has the fake "ER-35 2005" transformer and post back the results.

[Behemot]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Making bad things worse, well, your choice, I cannot push you into anything, but everbody here will tell you it is not really the right way.

Without sophisticated equipment, you have no means of telling what is happening inside. I have seen some stuff which I would not believe could even work, it was…somehow. But guess why I got it? Obviously not because it was running OK…you will regret it when it will bring instability and start damaging your componens and other equipment.

For me, even an hour of downtime would be very bad tradeoff for a couple extra dollars, not mentioning the time for solving the problem…but you need to learn your lesson I guess :-)

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Making bad things worse, well, your choice, I cannot push you into anything, but everbody here will tell you it is not really the right way.

Without sophisticated equipment, you have no means of telling what is happening inside. I have seen some stuff which I would not believe could even work, it was…somehow. But guess why I got it? Obviously not because it was running OK…you will regret it when it will bring instability and start damaging your componens and other equipment.

For me, even an hour of downtime would be very bad tradeoff for a couple extra dollars, not mentioning the time for solving the problem…but you need to learn your lesson I guess :-)

It's used in a 5v heavy system - the mobo is a A7N8X-E Deluxe.

But okay,I'm going to source some 1200uF caps for the 3.3 and 5V rail,and use some 1500-2200uF ones on the 12v as momaka said. Who knows,maybe the 12V rail will stay in spec - it's at @ 12.67-12.73V at this moment.

[Pentium4]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

You could also try changing out the values of the minimum load resistors. What does it have now on the 12V?

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

You could also try changing out the values of the minimum load resistors. What does it have now on the 12V?

Didn't replace yet,as I need to know what voltage should the 1200uF caps should have on the 3.3 and 5V rails and what voltage should the 1500uF caps have on the 12v (I'm installing two instead of one as momaka said)

[Behemot]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

I got this board, it is powered by some old 300W Fortron. Runs OK, just the power-on circuitry is frelled and it needs to be turned on manually with grounding PWR On pin.

Just don't tell me you use it with those luxon craps?

[momaka]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

It's used in a 5v heavy system - the mobo is a A7N8X-E Deluxe.

Oh okay, I didn't know this is for a 5V-heavy system. In that case, it's better to have...
2x 1500-3300uF (6.3V or 10V) for 3.3V rail
2x 1500-3300uF (6.3V or 10V) for 5V rail
1x 16V 1500-3300uF -OR- 2x 16V 1000-1500uF for 12V rail.
These values is what you will generally see in low-medium power PSUs. Use them as a suggestion only. You can go even higher than than with the capacitance. Just don't go too low like they do with the cheap units (i.e. *don't* do 2x 470uF caps on the 5V rail and expect to be enough - it's not).

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

I got this board, it is powered by some old 300W Fortron. Runs OK, just the power-on circuitry is frelled and it needs to be turned on manually with grounding PWR On pin.

Just don't tell me you use it with those luxon craps?

The board I have has KZGs next to the CPU. It must be a newer revision as it has a sticker saying "MADE IN CHINA" written in all caps,whereas the first revision had Rubycons. Eh,could be worse,such as bad datecode Nichicon HM/HNs. The small 6.3v 1000uF are all OST caps. (which I heard that there's no danger keeping them)

No problems with it at this moment but a recap of the KZGs awaits it.

momaka - Thanks for the values. One last question though,is it safe using 6.3v caps on the 3.3 and 5v or should I use 10v caps?

[momaka]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Yes, it is safe to use 6.3V caps for both the 3.3V and 5V rails. After all, if the 5V rail goes over 6.3V, the caps in the PSU should be the last thing you worry about .

Small OST caps can be hit or miss. White-on-black RLS tend to be okay. RLP and RLG - better not be filtering anything important. 8 mm RLX are the worst, especially with heat and/or high ripple.

[Behemot]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Yeah those KZG are prone to fail. All OST/C(r)apXon is crap, not to be trusted.

I also have 3300uF/6,3V NCC KYA if you need.

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Yes, it is safe to use 6.3V caps for both the 3.3V and 5V rails. After all, if the 5V rail goes over 6.3V, the caps in the PSU should be the last thing you worry about .

Small OST caps can be hit or miss. White-on-black RLS tend to be okay. RLP and RLG - better not be filtering anything important. 8 mm RLX are the worst, especially with heat and/or high ripple.

Thanks. I think 16v caps won't harm on the 3.3 and 5v caps. (just to be on the safe side and make sure it won't go ,and also because I have no 10v caps around but I have lots of 16v caps around and very few 6.3v caps)

As for the small ost caps,they're white on black RLS I think so they're fine.

And the last time I checked,the 5v line was at about 4.80V or so.

[Behemot]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

That's quite on the low side, mininmum is 4,75 V. You need to increase load on +12V, do you have enough fans in case?

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

That's quite on the low side, mininmum is 4,75 V. You need to increase load on +12V, do you have enough fans in case?

Did the recap.

First,the caps:

2x Rubycon ZL 1200uF 16V - 3.3 caps and first 5v cap
1x Rubycon ZL and 1x UCC KZE 1200uF 16V - 5v caps
-one 12v cap space left empty-
1x Ltec LZH 2200uF 16v - 12v cap (this one came from a dead Delta )

And those are the caps. I replaced the entire casing,thus removing the lot of wires that were mounted on a AC filter PCB (I have complete filtering done on the PSU PCB,even if instead of a EE/EI-25 transformer there's a coil with copper wire (somebody said it's good) ) and so I reused a Delux ATX-400W P4 PSU casing (that looked AWFULLY SIMILAR to the I-Micro PSUs on this site,and the PCB is the same as the I-Micros in here) and used the top half from the original PSU (why lie and say 400W when it outputs 350W? ).

I also replaced the fan with a square louder 80mm fan (from a Seventeam AT PSU that has CapXon caps) so there's no problem with the unit getting that hot. Now it hardly gives warm air.

Also,one thing that made me literally jawdrop,is that there is absolutely no PI coils,but the voltages are ALL within spec (exception for 12v which is at 12.67 - 12.73).

I'm wondering what did Sun Pro do that it's so efficient

Also,there's quite plenty of 12v inside,mainly being the video card (HD3450 512MB from ASUS,has HDD molex power),2x DVD-ROMs (unsure if both writers or just readers) and 2 HDDs,one SATA and one PATA. (a 80GB WDC and a Maxtor D740X-6L 40GB,both with temperature sensors installed)

I must add though,this is one of the fastest system I've built,and it's using a Athlon XP 2500+. Windows 7 runs VERY FAST on it.

As for fans,there's only one,because I don't have so much fans.

[momaka]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Thanks. I think 16v caps won't harm on the 3.3 and 5v caps.

Yes, 16V caps are fine too.

As for the small ost caps,they're white on black RLS I think so they're fine.

Well, still keep an eye on them every once in a while when you open the case, especially the ones that are near coils/inductors.

And the last time I checked,the 5v line was at about 4.80V or so.

Is that with a multimeter? If yes, it's quite low. Then again, your 12V rail is very high at 12.6-12.7V (actually, the 12.7V is out of ATX spec IIRC). Seems like that PSU is geared more towards a 12v-based system. What rectifier does it have on the 5V rail? If it's a 16A schottky rectifier or lower, don't use it on a 5V based system. Even a 20A schottky is low (and especially if your PSU is like mine and uses a linear regulator for the 3.3V rail, which draws its power from the 5V rail).

*edit*

First,the caps:

2x Rubycon ZL 1200uF 16V - 3.3 caps and first 5v cap
1x Rubycon ZL and 1x UCC KZE 1200uF 16V - 5v caps
-one 12v cap space left empty-
1x Ltec LZH 2200uF 16v - 12v cap

Okay, that looks acceptable more or less. But with those capacitances, you really should add PI coils, especially on the 5V rail. 3.3V is likely linear reg. so it *should* have low noise (but you never know - it's a Sun Pro after all ).

Also,there's quite plenty of 12v inside,mainly being the video card (HD3450 512MB from ASUS,has HDD molex power),2x DVD-ROMs (unsure if both writers or just readers) and 2 HDDs,one SATA and one PATA. (a 80GB WDC and a Maxtor D740X-6L 40GB,both with temperature sensors installed)

The Radeon HD3450 is only about 20W TDP at most, so it's not that heavy on the 12V. But with the two HDDs and the video card, you probably have a good 1-2A of load on the 12V rail. So it looks like this PSU is just not made for a 5V-heavy PC. They (Sun Pro) probably "cheated" by adding an extra turn or two on the main traffo for the 12V rail in order to keep it higher.

I must add though,this is one of the fastest system I've built,and it's using a Athlon XP 2500+.

Yeah, those Athlon XPs can still keep a fight. When I retire my Pentium 3 HP PC (probably in a few months), I'll be replacing it with an Athlon XP 2500+ as well .

[Dan81]

Re: Sumvision KY-450ATX 350W P4 PSU - recapped

Is that with a multimeter? If yes, it's quite low. Then again, your 12V rail is very high at 12.6-12.7V (actually, the 12.7V is out of ATX spec IIRC). Seems like that PSU is geared more towards a 12v-based system. What rectifier does it have on the 5V rail? If it's a 16A schottky rectifier or lower, don't use it on a 5V based system. Even a 20A schottky is low (and especially if your PSU is like mine and uses a linear regulator for the 3.3V rail, which draws its power from the 5V rail).

Seeing that,you really made me curious how it would do with a Pentium 4 Prescott system (generally 848P-875P era),which uses 12v.

Okay, that looks acceptable more or less. But with those capacitances, you really should add PI coils, especially on the 5V rail. 3.3V is likely linear reg. so it *should* have low noise (but you never know - it's a Sun Pro after all ).

Sadly the PCB has no place for PI coils. However it's amazing that they managed to keep them quite in spec (sans 12v which is quite high due to PSU being used on a 5v heavy system.

The Radeon HD3450 is only about 20W TDP at most, so it's not that heavy on the 12V. But with the two HDDs and the video card, you probably have a good 1-2A of load on the 12V rail. So it looks like this PSU is just not made for a 5V-heavy PC. They (Sun Pro) probably "cheated" by adding an extra turn or two on the main traffo for the 12V rail in order to keep it higher.

Well,no wonders the HD3450 could be powered even by a PSU with a EI-28 transformer (yes,I have such a PSU ) - it's taking 20w at most,and that's good. Wondering how much a FX5200/5500 takes. But as long as it's not going to go there's no problem in using it. In fact,I laughed at what the label says - 10A for 12V and 27A for the 3.3v and almost the same for 5V .
Anyways,should I be worried about the 2200uF Ltec?It came from a Delta,and I've heard Delta is good at making PSUs. Also found a heavy PFC on my dead Delta (for spares),should I install it?

Yeah, those Athlon XPs can still keep a fight. When I retire my Pentium 3 HP PC (probably in a few months), I'll be replacing it with an Athlon XP 2500+ as well .

Just did the WEI rating for it,and it's 2.9. Not bad,seeing it's a Athlon XP 2500+ and the GPU runs Aero without a problem. Not to mention,the CPU cooler is a very nice Delta.