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Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

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    #1

    Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

    Hello again enthusiasts,
    I've been presented today with an Asus Crosshair(first generation) system that isn't staying on for much time at all... 10-15 seconds tops before it dies, won't make a successful booting to anything.
    I can ID most issues and bad brands when it comes to the 'lytics, but I'm rather stumped with this board since it's 'critical' areas are all poly's of some brand & nature that I haven't the know-how to identify, and googling them brings up nothing with what searches I tried.

    The majority of the polys(25 of em) 'spell out' like this:

    -
    F 682
    -
    471
    6.3V

    The voltage is the only obvious part to me...
    The F-thing is a *really* tiny symbol on the cap itself, but I'm just trying to give a proper representation of it.
    I will go so far as to say that a couple of these poly caps appear to be leaning towards one leg...










    As seen in the pics, there's also a few(16) KZG caps(6.3V 820uF)spread about the board, I'd think they're in more non-essential sections, and wouldn't be the cause of these super-quick lock-ups that it's experiencing. I see no bulging or signs of failure, and yet this series has been said to, at times, fail without any indications.
    Information on the back-side of the KZG's:
    (M)105 - (obviously temp rating)
    6(7)
    6Q

    I'm not yet proficient enough to read date codes, or know what to look for.

    Thirdly, this board has an nForce 590 chipset which, if I understand correctly, most things beyond the nForce 4 chipset need to be reballed-reflowed, as they come from the factory in a state of impending failure.

    So, 3 unknowns on 1 non-working board - any suggestions as to where I might be able to start, or how one could go about eliminating an unknown..?

    Thanks for taking the time to check out my conundrum.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

    The red "F" capacitors are Fujitsu polymer. They are reliable and not likely to be the cause of your problem. If they are leaning, it's possible they were soldered on crooked. Asus's assembly isn't always the best fit and finish.

    As for the specs of the Fujitsu caps, they are marked with a number, and the last digit indicates the number of zeros. Yours are marked 471, so 47 followed by 1 zero for 470uF. In this scheme, a 1000uF capacitor would be marked 102 - 10 followed by 2 zeros. They're the only manufacturer I know of with this odd labeling scheme.

    It's possible the KZGs are causing issues. They've been known to fail without bloating.

    However, I think the most likely culprit in this case is the chipset. A reflow is likely a temporary fix. From what I understand, it's not usually the ball grid array joints that fail, but the internal solder joints within the chip die.

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

      Replace all those KZGs. I've been finding myself with stock of that particular value lately, because I see a lot of Asus boards and video cards with them.

      Replace them with this:
      https://www.badcaps.net/store/produc...products_id=71
      "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

      -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

        Agree.
        Chipset and/or the KZG.
        .
        Mann-Made Global Warming.
        - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
        -
        Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
        - Dr Seuss
        -
        You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
        -

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

          Starting the attempt-to-fix with KZG replacement; just ordered 20 of said caps from here.
          Thanks guys.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

            Recapped the 16 KZG's with the above mentioned Samxon's, that went quite alright.
            The PC still hangs/freezes up, and in the oddest of manners.
            First run, poked around in the bios for a while(this thing has waay to many options) and went to check on the voltage monitoring panel... once I hit enter to bring up a 'watch or ignore this voltage rail' it froze. The machine wasn't on for more than 5 minutes.
            -Reset Switch-
            Boot into XP, nice & fast - loads to the desktop and I see that AVG is out of date, so I tell it to update... something simple, right? Makes it about a third of the way through a downloading the 10MB update and freezes.
            After a couple more attempts 'for the fun of it', I swap out the massive PCI-E video card for a weenie PCI card, it updates all the way through - but it's still freezing at random times. 5 to 20 minutes before freezes, and I have not let it sit & cool at all, it's just been reset/reset/reset/etc...
            However:
            It managed to run for well over an hour in memtest, no errors in the ram after 3 complete test-passes.
            Wont fully boot Ubuntu 11.04, but has no issues running Puppy Linux 5.25 for more than 40 minutes.
            Had a Kill-A-Watt hooked to the tower, and with the massive PCI-E video card(8800GTS), it was drawing in 186 watts at XP desktop, with the tiny pci card in there it pulled between 117watts(Puppy Linux Desktop) and 137watts(XP desktop). Aside from memtest I never really did anything to stress this board.

            Kinda odd because it doesn't seem to be heat related in it's malfunctioning, otherwise I'd expect it to freeze quicker/sooner at each reboot.... but what do I know...

            If I am allowed to ask in this manner: Do we have any forum members who can & will reflow and/or reball the chipset of a board like this? Perhaps someone with an IR workstation(unless there's some better method). No doubt that will require payment :P
            Again, thanks for the input... but still working towards a viable fix.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

              1) You're probably right about the chipset, reflowing might be a temporary fix. Keep in mind that this chipset is post-nForce4 and might have the substrate flaw. I say might because I'm a little unclear whether 6xxx or nForce 5/6 chipsets are affected (Though I am sure that anything later was).
              2) Check your soldering work, you may have lifted a pad.
              3) Try running it with a different videocard. 8800GTS is not something wise to do testing with, because it in itself is inherently defective. You should use a PCI videocard (Because it's more likely you have one laying around than a cheap PCIe).
              "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

              -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                The 6000 series chipsets ARE affected.
                Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                A working TV? How boring!

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                  Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
                  The 6000 series chipsets ARE affected.
                  Which others are?
                  .
                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                  -
                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                  - Dr Seuss
                  -
                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                  -

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                    The question is which isn't... Since The Unique confirums 6xxx series is defective, the only series in question is 5xxx. nForce 4 and below are all OK, and 6xxx and above until GF1xx are all defective.

                    5xxx is in question. And by 5xxx I don't mean GeForce FX 5xxx which are all OK, I mean nForce 5.
                    "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                    -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                      Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                      The question is which isn't...
                      Exactly. Wasn't there a topic on this subject a few weeks ago?
                      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                      A working TV? How boring!

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                        Thanks for the responses gentlemen.
                        I was suspect of the 8800GTS myself and did swap it out with a good 'ol Diamond Stealth 3D 2000 PCI card... still the same weird issues and freezings.
                        This Crosshair board has the nForce 590 chipset if I understand correctly.

                        About the 8800GTS, what is understood to be flawed in/about them?
                        I did find myself looking over what caps I could actually see on that card...

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                          and 6xxx and above until GF1xx are all defective
                          I must clarify... This does not include the GeForce 1xx. GeForce 1xx and above until this current generation which I believe is GeForce 5xx are ok (Except for the RoHS solder). And nVidia isn't making chipsets anymore.

                          About the 8800GTS, what is understood to be flawed in/about them?
                          nVidia didn't engineer the chip properly. Computer ICs have two levels of development. One is actually writing code... the other is designing the chip. For some reason nVidia decided to downsize its engineering team in favor of its programming team, and they didn't place the "bumps" properly throughout the chip... So the chips heat up and the substrate seperates from the base or something like that.

                          There are several now somewhat difficult-to-find articles about this now (Don't forget they're a multi-billion dollar company and stuff like this is covered up), but if you throw around the search term "bumpgate" on Yahoo, you may come across something.
                          "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                          -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                            Originally posted by mockingbird View Post
                            The question is which isn't... Since The Unique confirums 6xxx series is defective, the only series in question is 5xxx. nForce 4 and below are all OK, and 6xxx and above until GF1xx are all defective.

                            5xxx is in question. And by 5xxx I don't mean GeForce FX 5xxx which are all OK, I mean nForce 5.
                            >> until GF1xx <<
                            Is GF1xx the first okay one or the last bad one?
                            .
                            For that matter what do you mean by GF1xx?
                            GeForce 1?

                            I never get nVidia chipsets straight because I don't use them but I get random nVidia boards that have built up in the junk box and I'm thinkin' it's time to go through them.

                            I'm asking about MOTHERBOARD Chipsets.
                            I don't care about GPUs on add-in cards.
                            .
                            Last edited by PCBONEZ; 07-20-2011, 02:36 PM.
                            Mann-Made Global Warming.
                            - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                            -
                            Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                            - Dr Seuss
                            -
                            You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                            -

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                              Ok...

                              Geforce SDR
                              Geforce DDR
                              Geforce 2
                              Geforce 3
                              Geforce 4
                              Geforce 5

                              ...these are all ok, and so are their chipsets. The reason I include the GPUs is because the names for the POST nForce 5 chipsets kind of correlate to the videocard naming schema...

                              So this first "OK" generation included nForce 1, 2 ,3 and 4.

                              Now we have:
                              nForce 5
                              nForce 6
                              nForce 7

                              I don't think they made an nForce chipset with an integrated 8xxx GPU... I think 7xxx was the last one though I may be mistaken.

                              Now nForce 6xxx and GeForce 6xxx are both problematic (Though I use a 6600 without any problems). nForce 7xxx and GeForce 7xxx are both problematic.
                              "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                              -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                              Comment

                                #16
                                Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                                So.
                                nForce 7 - bad
                                nForce 6 - bad
                                nForce 5 - questionable
                                ---
                                nForce 4 and earlier - ok
                                nForce 8 and later - ok

                                .
                                Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                -
                                Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                - Dr Seuss
                                -
                                You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                -

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                                  So.
                                  nForce 7 - bad
                                  nForce 6 - bad
                                  nForce 5 - questionable
                                  Correct.
                                  nForce 4 and earlier - ok
                                  nForce 8 and later - ok
                                  If there was an nForce 8 or later, it would not be reliable. My doubt was whether it existed at all, not whether it worked properly. So nForce 1 - 4 I know are reliable, nForce 5 probably isn't (The op is using nForce 5), and anything later is definitely unreliable.
                                  "We have offered them (the Arabs) a sensible way for so many years. But no, they wanted to fight. Fine! We gave them technology, the latest, the kind even Vietnam didn't have. They had double superiority in tanks and aircraft, triple in artillery, and in air defense and anti-tank weapons they had absolute supremacy. And what? Once again they were beaten. Once again they scrammed [sic]. Once again they screamed for us to come save them. Sadat woke me up in the middle of the night twice over the phone, 'Save me!' He demanded to send Soviet troops, and immediately! No! We are not going to fight for them."

                                  -Leonid Brezhnev (On the Yom Kippur War)

                                  Comment

                                    #18
                                    Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                                    Thank you.
                                    .
                                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.
                                    -
                                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
                                    - Dr Seuss
                                    -
                                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                    -

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                                      As well, thank you.

                                      Considering all the other motherboards floating around ebay & wherever with bad caps that can be acquired for 'a song'(maybe 'a song and a dance') and fixed with a few dollars of AMAZING caps, this thing isn't really worth the risk of reballing/reflowing and finding out that it might be hopelessly lost anyways, correct?

                                      Next step for testing purposes anyways is to swap out this beefy-looking crosshair board with a re-capped, and nicely functioning but slimmed-down-looking, MCP61PM-HM, and see if/how it handles the 8800GTS card and accessories.

                                      Comment

                                        #20
                                        Re: Asus Crosshair 1.04G Poly/KZG/nForce590 Challenge

                                        MCP61M = GeForce 6150. Not recommended... Especially since it's made by ECS (Extraordinarily Crappy Systems). But, if it's the only spare board you have, it's still better than nothing.
                                        Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                                        Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                                        A working TV? How boring!

                                        Comment

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