Two questions (usb and ram)

[pentium]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Shoot, I didn't check before I gave the sticks to a friend.
I only played with the FSB so unless the system changes the ram speed when the FSB resets I'm stuck with a chicken or egg problem.

If the ram works than there is no reason to return it. $40 for a gig o rman was damn good.

[pentium]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

okay, a night with the battery removed, the PSU unplugged and the CMOS jumper shorted did nothing. It still stops at the memory.
Wait, you said that the speed of the ram changes with the speed of the cpu installed, right?
I have a slower Athlon boxed away. It's rated for 1.3 ghz or something like that. Would installing that allow the ram to work properly and allow me to enter the BIOS and adjust the speed so that when I put my 3000+ back in it will POST?

Why couldn't this be as easy as the days of PC100 and PC133 SDRAM?

[pentium]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Well I tried with the slower chip and it still errors out on the ram.
I guess I'm going to have to get back my old sticks and use them to assist me in getting the ram to work.

[pentium]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Well goold sticks back tonight and first thing I did was plug one in and get into the bios. The system is really annoying, the DRAM speed can only be changed in manual overclocking mode and I don't know squat when it comes to Overclocking (I don't like overclockers).
Anyways, I first try by switching to auto speed adjusting and swap sticks.
I power the system on and I get the regular memory beep.
I swap again, return to the bios and manually change both the FSB and the RAM clock ratio so that I can get 265Mhz (it wasn't adding up to 266 no matter what).
I swap and try again. Again, it fails to work. Making it more annoying, I try to underclock the speed of the ram and no matter how low I go the ram speed stas locked at either 133 or 100 mhz.
I'm stumped. I'm ready to kick something.
For reference, this is the sticker on the old 128 meg stick...

KVR266X64C25/128
2.5V
ASMM0460522

...and here is the sticker on the new 512 meg stick.

512MB 64X4 ECC
DDR266 - R
35942642L W17557

They run at the same speed. What the hell?
I know those bloody sticks work.

[davmax]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Please confirm your motherboard model number, the processor you are currently using and it's correct FSB. I am not sure from your posts.
Do you have two sticks of 512 Mbyte DDR266?

With this info we should get a definative result.

[pentium]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Please confirm your motherboard model number

MSI K7N2 Delta2 LSR

the processor you are currently using and it's correct FSB.

AMD Athlon 3000+ with a 166mhz FSB (2-2.2 Ghz)

Do you have two sticks of 512 Mbyte DDR266?

I assume so.
need photos?
The two sticks in question are on the left of the attached photo.
The 128mb stick is on the right.

[stevo1210]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Could your new RAM sticks be having an issue because they are ECC type RAM compared to your old one which was non ECC? I'm not very familiar with ECC RAM because I can never afford ECC RAM, so I'm not sure.

[davmax]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

I have looked at the spec and manual for your motherboard and I can see no claim to support ECC memory, I hope I did not miss something. I would suggest that you do not use ECC memory.

I cannot make out the memory speed on the 512M modules in picture.

The following points can be made if you have the correct memory.
1. Clock speed for DDR266 is 133. The result is often confirmed on first boot screen.
2. There are two memory controllers that improve performance if memory is shared between them. However if the memory modules are not matched for dual channel operation errors can and do occur. Memory is usually bought in dual channel kits. It is possible to get two 512M modules not specifically matched that will work this way (one in a green slot and one in a blue slot) but if this causes error both will have to go in a blue slot.
3 Looking at the bios Cell Menu. The CPU clock must be 166 and the ratio Auto. Memory should be set for SPD timing if this fails set for 5:4 FSB: DRAM ratio. You can also try F6 & F7 on this menu.

You should get it all working this way. If not there is likely a Mb problem.

[davmax]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

A small point. I trust you are saving the bios settings. Like hit Esc to exit Cell Menu then F10 and YES.

[pentium]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

I can see no claim to support ECC memory

Well there is our problem. I got screwed over by ECC.
You are correct, looking over my manual once more I can see no mention of supporting ECC and if it's not mentioned, chances are that it's not supported.
Isn't ECC also commonly used in servers? Grrrrr.....

I cannot make out the memory speed on the 512M modules in picture.

They mention 266 so that must be the speed. In that case, the settings I had for the other sticks of ram were fine and should of worked on these sticks.

The following points can be made if you have the correct memory.
1. Clock speed for DDR266 is 133. The result is often confirmed on first boot screen.
2. There are two memory controllers that improve performance if memory is shared between them. However if the memory modules are not matched for dual channel operation errors can and do occur. Memory is usually bought in dual channel kits. It is possible to get two 512M modules not specifically matched that will work this way (one in a green slot and one in a blue slot) but if this causes error both will have to go in a blue slot.
3 Looking at the bios Cell Menu. The CPU clock must be 166 and the ratio Auto. Memory should be set for SPD timing if this fails set for 5:4 FSB: DRAM ratio. You can also try F6 & F7 on this menu.

I'm at school right now but when I get home I'll get into the bios and do exactly that. Yes I do save when I leave the bios. If that was not the case I would of given up on even entering a bios years ago.
By the way, both sticks were pulled from the same system (seller didn't say what kind of system) Since I know one of these sticks allow a proper POST (my friend tried a single stick in one of his systems. Custom system) I have been using only one of these sticks and not both at the same time. It helps limit the troubleshooting.
I also notice that if I put in one of the problematic sticks (512) with one of the old sticks (128) the system will not POST or even POST with just detecting the 128 meg stick. That there is probably because of ECC(?).
Hey, how hard would it be to trade these ECC sticks for non-ECC sticks of the same size and speed?

EDIT: can you not zoom-in on the photo? I can in firefox and I can more clearly see the stickers.

[Harvey]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

I've used ECC (DDR) Ram in boards that don't support ECC before now and its always worked fine for me.

However, the 512MB sticks look like generic no-name ram, which in my experience is always more trouble that its worth.

Can you increase the RAM / VCCM voltage slightly?

[gdement]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

The problem with this memory is that it's registered, not that it's ECC. ECC itself is a pretty transparent feature that the motherboard can ignore if it doesn't support it. But your modules also have the telltale buffering chips of a registered module (those horizontal chips in the center). Most ebay sellers don't seem to be aware of the compatibility issues of those, or if they are they don't say anything. At best they'll call it "ECC", but the real issue is the buffering. Unbuffered ECC will still work on almost anything.

Registered memory is great for a heavily loaded machine, but most desktop boards can't run them properly. The only consistent exception I know of is the 440BX platform, which always seems to work fine with them. Out of curiosity, I recently tried some on a couple 440LX boards but they didn't work either.

Ironically, registered memory modules tend to be a bit cheaper on ebay than the common unbuffered type, simply because many people can't use them so there's less competition. I just wish the people who sell them would make the issue clear - usually the only evidence is by looking closely at the photos. It's a gotcha that many buyers will miss.

I think this memory would work on an AMD761 board, but I've never tried it.

[davmax]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Buffered memory. Excellent point and confirmation of a risk getting one type of ECC. It is interesting that the manual does not specify unbuffered memory they usually do.

Further clarification
Unlike earlier SDRAM 100/133 motherboards these dual channel memory boards do not support any combination of memory when using both the green and blue slots. The manual is misleading in that it states any value up to 1Gb in each slot. It is my experience that the size and speed must be identical in blue and green. eg NO to 128M + 512M in blue and 512M green.

Yes I was able to zoom on memory picture in IE 7. Did not realise it was there. Definitely DDR266.
Whilst seeking unbuffered memory keep your options open for DDR400. It may be difficult to off load the ECC memory.
DDR400 512 at US$15 each eBay
http://cgi.ebay.com/SAMSUNG-512MB-40...QQcmdZViewItem

[pentium]

Re: Two questions (usb and ram)

Well now we have a problem.
It's too late to return them and I'm completely out of money.
I could always try going around town and finding a place that will trade for the right sticks but there is always a string.
Well this was definitely a rough start into my introduction with DDR ram.