A1707 820-0098 5V power loop all USB-C except one jack, and strangeness after replacing the one bad CD3215C.

[abajor]

I have this 1707 with the 5V 0A power loop issue on 3 of the jacks.
One of the CD3215C00 had corrosion under one side U3100 to be precise.
This USB jack was drawing ~.2A and not boot looping.

After replacing the CD3215 I am having an odd problem. I can rotate the USB-C and it only works in one orientation. And now it boot cycles, like the other usb channels so I'm part way there.

After looking at the schematic and board view. It makes very little sense that this is happening since they both pin 59 and pin 60 both go to the same places on J3300.

Another weird thing is XW3300 does not exist on this board (Just unoccupied pads), which makes very little sense since this is the path for the PSU to feed the CD3215C.

Anybody have any idea why I only get 5V power up in one orientation?

Thanks.

[reformatt]

You won't see the charger enable 5V until a proper negotiation is done via the CC1 or CC2 channels. If memory serves, the charger should supply 5V on these pins, and this is used to start off the source/sink comms between the two. In other words, if there is no comms from the CD3215 on that channel, you won't see 5V on the charger enabled. CC1 is for one orientation, CC2 is for the other.

Once we get 5V on VBUS, that allows the buck/boost converter for PPBUS_G3H to do it's thing and supply other rails to the CD3215. If it's looping, you likely have issues further in the machine (like a short on a rail somewhere in the sequence). Understanding how these things work goes a long way to troubleshooting them.

[abajor]

You won't see the charger enable 5V until a proper negotiation is done via the CC1 or CC2 channels. If memory serves, the charger should supply 5V on these pins, and this is used to start off the source/sink comms between the two. In other words, if there is no comms from the CD3215 on that channel, you won't see 5V on the charger enabled. CC1 is for one orientation, CC2 is for the other.

Once we get 5V on VBUS, that allows the buck/boost converter for PPBUS_G3H to do it's thing and supply other rails to the CD3215. If it's looping, you likely have issues further in the machine (like a short on a rail somewhere in the sequence). Understanding how these things work goes a long way to troubleshooting them.

That's incredibly helpful. I should be able to trace which one isn't getting the voltage much easier now.

But yes from what I've read the issue is likely a short and I will need to start looking at inductors and buck converters next.

I'm guessing I may not have fully flowed solder on the pads associated with cc1 or cc2, or I just got a batch of bunk CD3215 from ali-express. I have a feeling they're salvaged from boards reballed and placed into the reel strips to give the appearance of being new.

[piernov]

I'm guessing I may not have fully flowed solder on the pads associated with cc1 or cc2, or I just got a batch of bunk CD3215 from ali-express. I have a feeling they're salvaged from boards reballed and placed into the reel strips to give the appearance of being new.

Yes.

[mon2]

With no power, review the measurements of the CC1 and CC2 pins in diode mode of your meter. Red meter probe to ground. Black meter probe to the CCx pin. Post each measurement.

[abajor]

With no power, review the measurements of the CC1 and CC2 pins in diode mode of your meter. Red meter probe to ground. Black meter probe to the CCx pin. Post each measurement.

Pin 53 (CC2) is reading .04V both red and black on ground. Pin 52 (CC1) is ~.6V read to ground so clearly a short in that either to pin 96 on U3100, C3114 or DZ3301 I guess I'll be removing the chip and eliminating that variable.

[mon2]

In diode mode, red lead to ground and black lead to the pin to test. Is that how the measurements were taken? If yes, then yes there is a short on the line.

Trace the schematics to locate the esd diode on the same pin. Carefully flux and remove this esd diode and test again to see if the short condition is gone or not. The esd diodes are sacrificial and they often get nuked upon being hit by a large enough surge event but is done so to prevent the silicon from damage.

The other tests are to confirm the LDO rails of each ACE (CD321x) controller.

[abajor]

In diode mode, red lead to ground and black lead to the pin to test. Is that how the measurements were taken? If yes, then yes there is a short on the line.

Trace the schematics to locate the esd diode on the same pin. Carefully flux and remove this esd diode and test again to see if the short condition is gone or not. The esd diodes are sacrificial and they often get nuked upon being hit by a large enough surge event but is done so to prevent the silicon from damage.

The other tests are to confirm the LDO rails of each ACE (CD321x) controller.

Sorry I realize what I said was confusing yes the CC1 was tested with RED not "read" to ground on diode setting and it reads .6V. CC2 is the shorted one Ok I'll remove that ESD diode and see if that's the source of the short.

I may have just been sloppy with my resolder job and bridged pins 84 or 95 (CC1) to ground pin 96 on the CD3215.

I'm still trying to master my BGA work. I don't think it helps much that these Ali Express chips are re-balled with lead free solder.

My current technique is to normally remove all the solder from the PCB, re-ball the chip only with leaded, clean board and chip, then melt a little flux onto the board before placing the chip.

Biggest challenge always seems to be the chip floating on bubbling flux, and using just the right amount. I always have a hard time seeing the surface tension pull the BGA into place with lead free.

[abajor]

In diode mode, red lead to ground and black lead to the pin to test. Is that how the measurements were taken? If yes, then yes there is a short on the line.

Trace the schematics to locate the esd diode on the same pin. Carefully flux and remove this esd diode and test again to see if the short condition is gone or not. The esd diodes are sacrificial and they often get nuked upon being hit by a large enough surge event but is done so to prevent the silicon from damage.

The other tests are to confirm the LDO rails of each ACE (CD321x) controller.

Ironically the 820-00928 board doesn't have the ESD diodes at least not where they show on the board view. The pads for them don't even exist on this board.

[abajor]

In diode mode, red lead to ground and black lead to the pin to test. Is that how the measurements were taken? If yes, then yes there is a short on the line.

Trace the schematics to locate the esd diode on the same pin. Carefully flux and remove this esd diode and test again to see if the short condition is gone or not. The esd diodes are sacrificial and they often get nuked upon being hit by a large enough surge event but is done so to prevent the silicon from damage.

The other tests are to confirm the LDO rails of each ACE (CD321x) controller.

Interestingly enough with the CD3215 removed CC1 and CC2 are both open. It doesn't appear the ESD diodes exist on this version of the board.

[abajor]

I think they must have moved the diodes from between the two test points to above them?

I may have damaged them trying to test probe them? I don't get any voltage drop now with or without the CD3215.

[abajor]

I got a few replacement TVS diodes to replace in the above attached image. They are the worst It's pretty much impossible to use an iron to flow solder on them since the pads are only on the bottom. For whatever reason with flux and lead free solder they will not wet with the tinned pads with my reflow tool. However I was able to accidentally de solder the usb jack screw stud attempting to flow solder on the TVS diode.

Any pointers?

Will the USBC controller function properly without them.

[abajor]

Looks like I finally got it.
I was able to solder down the TVS diodes. This was an absolute nightmare on the 820-00928 version of the board. As can be seen in the photo the DZ3301 and DZ3302 TVS diodes are not where they are purported to be on the 820-00281 Board View, or the 820-00928 Board view I found.
I'm assuming they're not very easy to work with next to the chip shield either shown in the diagram. I'm assuming the TVS diodes can be left out since they are there just for ESD and Surge protection. They are absolutely the worst thing I've ever tried to solder with only bottom pads on an 0201 package. 10/10 wouldn't recommend.

MacBook Charging and booting into login thanks for all the help. Somebody should make a note that DZ3301 and 3302 are not in the same location in the recommended board views on the 820-00928 A

[mon2]

I'm assuming they're not very easy to work with next to the chip shield either shown in the diagram. I'm assuming the TVS diodes can be left out since they are there just for ESD and Surge protection. They are absolutely the worst thing I've ever tried to solder with only bottom pads on an 0201 package. 10/10 wouldn't recommend.

Agree with each statement. Even with an amazing 4k microscope, personally cringe when someone brings in these macbooks for service. Have a very good track record to repair units that Apple demands large sums of money to replace the logic board but the tiny parts are not simple to handle. One suggestion for such parts is to flux the area -> use high heat but low air pressure with the best tweezers you can find. This combination helps to gently melt the part onto the pads. One positive note is that this component is not polarized.

Somebody should make a note that DZ3301 and 3302 are not in the same location in the recommended board views on the 820-00928 A

Excellent feedback. Perhaps you can post the same details inside the schematics/boardview forum?

[abajor]

Agree with each statement. Even with an amazing 4k microscope, personally cringe when someone brings in these macbooks for service. Have a very good track record to repair units that Apple demands large sums of money to replace the logic board but the tiny parts are not simple to handle. One suggestion for such parts is to flux the area -> use high heat but low air pressure with the best tweezers you can find. This combination helps to gently melt the part onto the pads. One positive note is that this component is not polarized.

Yes it's tough. I have the Micron Mechanic tweezers, great tweezers for less than 7$.
The approach I found that sort of works ok is to flow some of the amtec flux enough to turn it transparent, maneuver the part onto the tinned pads then slowly turn up the air velocity on my hot air tool. I lost so many of those damn diodes even with extremely low pressure.

I sort of set and forget my heat to reach about 280C with a thermal probe, I may want to try to adjust it. The old OKII station I have has no temperature feedback. I agree I'd very much like to use higher heat lower pressure. I've had a hard time finding the happy medium with tip diameter.
With the stock tip that came with the OKII even on it's lowest velocity setting it would still blow chips around the board. I stepped up in diameter so I could avoid blasting surface mount components off the board.

I also acquired a Leica binocular scope for biological work and hijacked one eyepiece with a cmount adapter and an old point gray black fly ccd camera, so my vertical clearance is quite crap with the hot air tool hoping to find a 90degree adapter so I can provide vertical air flow.

I will certainly post that info in the schematic board view forum!

[abajor]

Another thing I think I learned the hard way is I (everybody) should probably make corner marking for chips like the CD3215x. I was lucky that I took a picture of the corroded chip before I extracted it so I could use the surrounding components as guides to where the corners line up.

Heaven forbid they silkscreen anything like that onto the board.