CapXon Replacement Suggestions

[mockingbird]

Victim: Samsung Syncmaster 713n
Symptoms: Monitor works great for a while and then loses signal or gives OOB error when resolution is correct.

Solution: FSP Power supply has CrapXon capacitors.

I need suggestions with what to replace them with:

Caps (In order from highest to lowest):

1) 450V/100uF "KM" Series
2) 35V/330uF "KF" Series
3) 25V/470uF "KF" Series
4) 25V/470uF "GL" Series (2)
5) 10V/1000uF "GL" Series

Small Caps (Which I want to replace):
1) 63V/10uF "KF" Series
2) 50v/47uF "KF" Series
3) 50v/4.7uF "KF" Series

Your help is most appreciated.

[PlainBill]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Victim: Samsung Syncmaster 713n
Symptoms: Monitor works great for a while and then loses signal or gives OOB error when resolution is correct.

Solution: FSP Power supply has CrapXon capacitors.

I need suggestions with what to replace them with:

Caps (In order from highest to lowest):

1) 450V/100uF "KM" Series
2) 35V/330uF "KF" Series
3) 25V/470uF "KF" Series
4) 25V/470uF "GL" Series (2)
5) 10V/1000uF "GL" Series

Small Caps (Which I want to replace):
1) 63V/10uF "KF" Series
2) 50v/47uF "KF" Series
3) 50v/4.7uF "KF" Series

Your help is most appreciated.

Follow the steps listed here. Make sure to compare height and diameter to the original. I wouldn't bother replacing the 450V 100uF cap.

PlainBill

[mockingbird]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Thanks Bill.

I didn't think Diameter was important since I listed the series. Can you point me to the specs of the series and I will choose equivalent ESR caps?

I'm gonna go ahead and replace the big one too, but you have a point, the big CapXons usually do alright in PSUs, but if you don't believe the big caps can fail, I have a 400V/47uF sitting right in front of me that I pulled out of a DVD player a while ago that is leaking electrolyte.

[PlainBill]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Thanks Bill.

I didn't think Diameter was important since I listed the series.

Read the narration, or if you don't believe me, follow the steps in the link I gave above. In some cases a given value cap can be available in three different dimensions in a given series.

Can you point me to the specs of the series and I will choose equivalent ESR caps?

Historically I have a very low tolerance for laziness on the part of others. (My own I'm inclined to tolerate a little). Google Capxon GL datasheet (or KF or KM) and you will have all the specs available. No need to trust the word of someone you believe is untrustworthy.

I'm gonna go ahead and replace the big one too, but you have a point, the big CapXons usually do alright in PSUs, but if you don't believe the big caps can fail, I have a 400V/47uF sitting right in front of me that I pulled out of a DVD player a while ago that is leaking electrolyte.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said they don't fail, I said 'seldom fail'. At a rough estimate I have helped 200 people with their monitors on this forum. In that time one person had a bad 450V cap that was bad, but had no physical signs of failure. Another had one with an obviously bulging top. I suggest 'leaking electrolyte' is an obvious sign of falure. I stand by my advice, but will grant that replacing it is not a foolish idea.

PlainBill

P.S. Your handle is interesting. Mockingbirds are noted for their ability to mimic other birds, as well as laying their eggs in the nests of other birds, saddling the victims with the responsibility of feeding the young mochingbirds.

pb

[mockingbird]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Historically I have a very low tolerance for laziness on the part of others. (My own I'm inclined to tolerate a little). Google Capxon GL datasheet (or KF or KM) and you will have all the specs available. No need to trust the word of someone you believe is untrustworthy.

Fair enough.

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said they don't fail, I said 'seldom fail'. At a rough estimate I have helped 200 people with their monitors on this forum. In that time one person had a bad 450V cap that was bad, but had no physical signs of failure. Another had one with an obviously bulging top. I suggest 'leaking electrolyte' is an obvious sign of falure. I stand by my advice, but will grant that replacing it is not a foolish idea.

I don't see why they wouldn't fail. My reasoning is that I have read that good caps use synthetic rubber bunges and lousy caps use real rubber bunges. This in itself is interesting because have you ever seen a synthetic rubber band last very long when exposed to heat for an extended amount of time? They shrivel into smitherines. I guess rubber might interact even worse than polymer to the alkaline environment inside a capacitor. Interestingly enough, I ran my nail across the bunge of this big CapXon and it felt synthetic to me. It even has these tiny ridges which indicates that it is probably synthetic.

P.S. Your handle is interesting. Mockingbirds are noted for their ability to mimic other birds, as well as laying their eggs in the nests of other birds, saddling the victims with the responsibility of feeding the young mochingbirds.

Yes indeed I have been chided before on my choice of handle. Once for the reason you state, it is a nasty little bird from Mississippi, and another time, albeit on a nutcase conspiracy forum, because it was a codename used by the CIA for projects that required deceiving the public.

Be well.

[mockingbird]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Just an update:

Per your advice Bill, I looked up the specs on these caps and referenced some things I thought might match. I'm lost on the ESR ratings, can you be of assistance with this?

1) 450V/100uF "KM" Series - 18mm x 41mm Ripple = 560
Panasonic HC
Panasonic ED

2) 35V/330uF "KF" Series - 10mm x 16mm Ripple = 1050 Impedance = 0.079
Panasonic FC
Nichicon PW

3) 25V/470uF "KF" Series - 7mm x 16mm Ripple = ? Impedance = ? (A 10x16mm part is listed and its values are 1200 for ripple and 0.076 for impedance)
Panasonic FC
UCC KZE

4) 25V/470uF "GL" Series (2) - 10mm x 16mm Ripple = 1040 Impedance = 0.065
Panasonic FC
UCC LXZ
UCC LXY
Nichicon PW

5) 10V/1000uF "GL" Series - 10mm x 16mm Ripple = 1010 Impedance = 0.072
Panasonic FC
UCC LXZ
UCC LXY
Nichicon HE
Nichicon PW

Thanks very much for your help.

[PlainBill]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Sorry to be a hard ass about this, but after wasting half an hour on this I'm going to go with my original opinion. CapXon's web site is now in other hands, datasheets are unavailable in a quick search, and the parts were crap to begin with.

My first choice for the low voltage caps would be Panasonic FMs. If they are unavailable I would take Panasonic FCs, any of the other series you have listed are also good.

IMHO, the exercise is a waste of time. The original caps started deteriorating the first time power was applied. By the time the warranty expired they no longer came close to specs, but the monitor kept working. ANY good quality part will outperform the original.

The closest analogy I can think of at this time is the guy who has decided Thunderbird wine at $4.00 per gallon is now below his standards and is agonizing between a French wine at $25.00 a bottle and a German wine at $24.00 a bottle. From a Bill Murray movie "It doesn't really matter!"

PlainBill

[mockingbird]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

What!? Of all the impudence!

[PlainBill]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

What!? Of all the impudence!

If that's a problem for you, try Levitra.

PlainBill

[mockingbird]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

I'm going to go ahead and order based on the best ripple match. I'm going to use LXY as a choice where it fits because I like the fact that they're taller (10x20 vs 10x16) and thus probably have a better heat tolerance.

I did manage to track down all the datasheets from CapXon. If you look carefully you will see the links in the post, not now, but perhaps for the future it may do you some good.

[PlainBill]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

I'm going to go ahead and order based on the best ripple match. I'm going to use LXY as a choice where it fits because I like the fact that they're taller (10x20 vs 10x16) and thus probably have a better heat tolerance.

I did manage to track down all the datasheets from CapXon. If you look carefully you will see the links in the post, not now, but perhaps for the future it may do you some good.

I'd like to use a current project to justify my approach. Monday I bought a 'bad' 46" Samsung LCD TV. The seller correctly diagnosed the problem as bad caps, but elected to buy a new TV. I opened the TV up and found two bulging 2200uF, 10V Samwha XC series caps in the power supply. Next to them are a pair of 1000uF, 25V caps, and a single 1000uF, 10V cap, all of them Samwha XC series. I check my parts bin and I don't have any 2200uF, 10V Panasonic FM or FC caps available, but I do have a few Nichicon HE, so I start checking the datasheets.

First problem, I can't find the specs on the Samwha XC series. Panasonic FC should have an ESR of .04, FM about half that, Nichicon should be about .04 also. Next check the caps with The Blue ESR meter. The two bulging caps read .80. The other Samwhas read .01. Huh?? Were these some super low ESR caps? Then I check the ESR of the Nichicon HE. One had short leads, that read .01. The next had full length leads, it read .03. ???? OK, move the clips down close to the body, now it reads .01. Yeah - the meter can measure the resistance of the cap's leads. Checking a few other caps I had on hand showed the same thing - ESR of the new caps was .01-.02.

Now, how much time should I spend trying to 'match' ESR specs? Good quality low ESR caps will have an ESR well below the maximum rated ESR. (Per Wizard, Samwha caps tend to be good, but certain production lots have problems. Two of one lot failed, the other three (of different lots) were still superb.) Buy good quality low ESR caps of the proper capacity and voltage. Spend your time making sure they will fit in the available space.

PlainBill

[mockingbird]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Let me ask you a rookie question Bill. I'm having problem finding any mention of ESR specs on cap datasheets. Is there a special symbol I'm looking for? And thanks for that anecdote about the LCD. Are you going to keep that thing all for yourself? I could use one of those, you know. :-)

[PlainBill]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

Let me ask you a rookie question Bill. I'm having problem finding any mention of ESR specs on cap datasheets. Is there a special symbol I'm looking for? And thanks for that anecdote about the LCD. Are you going to keep that thing all for yourself? I could use one of those, you know. :-)

In general, the ESR is specified only on caps designed for low ESR. The FAQ has several threads on choosing replacement caps. I am of the opinion that in most cases using low ESR caps from a good manufacturer is all the 'matching' required. One obvious exception is caps with an exceptionally high temperature rating, flame resistant design, etc.

The TV has gone on sale and is in the hands of a grateful buyer. The main point of the discourse was to discourage you from spending an excessive amount of time trying to match ESR specs. As a secondary point, it should encourage you to find your own repairable HDTV and fix it. Just don't poach on tmwalsh's territory.

PlainBill

[mockingbird]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

I did find an HDTV a few months ago, and I do plan on repairing it. I've mentioned it before. You must be getting old :p

Victim: "Akai" 42" Plasma HDTV Model PDP4273M

Symptom: I found this in the trash outside a rich Italian's home one cold rainy night. It was in a box for a 52" Plasma Viega (Yes, I call Viera Viegas because the R they use is a Cyrillic G), so naturally I got all excited. Luckily the box had so far protected it from the rain.

Brought it back home and fired her up after it stopped condensating. Turns on but the image is distorted and grainy but it *IS* there. The next morning when the TV had warmed to room temperature, it wouldn't turn on at all which indicates to me that it definitely is cap failure. G-d only knows what caps that dingy little factory in China put in this thing, but chances are it uses a Samsung tube.

I'm gonna open it up when I have the enrgy one of these days and get to it. How do you fix such monsters Bill, do you mount them first on some kind of a stand or do you just lay it flat on its face and take off the back.

[PlainBill]

Re: CapXon Replacement Suggestions

I did find an HDTV a few months ago, and I do plan on repairing it. I've mentioned it before. You must be getting old :p

I AM old, you jac***s. You behave yourself and you might live long enough to make it too.

Victim: "Akai" 42" Plasma HDTV Model PDP4273M

Symptom: I found this in the trash outside a rich Italian's home one cold rainy night. It was in a box for a 52" Plasma Viega (Yes, I call Viera Viegas because the R they use is a Cyrillic G), so naturally I got all excited. Luckily the box had so far protected it from the rain.

Brought it back home and fired her up after it stopped condensating. Turns on but the image is distorted and grainy but it *IS* there. The next morning when the TV had warmed to room temperature, it wouldn't turn on at all which indicates to me that it definitely is cap failure. G-d only knows what caps that dingy little factory in China put in this thing, but chances are it uses a Samsung tube.

I'm gonna open it up when I have the enrgy one of these days and get to it. How do you fix such monsters Bill, do you mount them first on some kind of a stand or do you just lay it flat on its face and take off the back.

I'm not so sure it has a Samsung tube. The published native resolution of that set is 1024 x 1024. Still, speculation is useless untill you get the back off.

I lay them face down on the dining room table and take off the back. (I have a very wonderful wife who approves because she gets first choice of the repaired product). I've also tricked up the rough design of a working stand also.

The prototype in the picture is more of a 'burn in' stand. It uses a universal fixed wall mount for 37" - 63" TVs that Fry's Electronics had on sale. The frame that was intended to mount on the wall limits access to the electronics too much. I've started to write up a 'How to Make a Flat Panel TV Repair Stand' project, which I will post to the 'TV and Video Sources' section when I get it done. I need encouragement to work in it.

The chief modifications involve starting with a full 8' 2 x 4, and cutting it into 2 20" pieces for the base and 2 28" pieces for the verticals. Move the two verticals about 2" closer to the rear than the ones in the picture. The idea is to have the center of the TV over the center of the base. Instead of the wall mount, bolt 1.25" perforated angle iron to each vertical, then run the appropriate metric screws through the holes in the angle iron to fasten it to the TV. Of course, glue and screw the verticals to the base. Carpet stapled to the bottom of the base means you won't have to worry about scratching the floor.

I even toyed around with the idea of mounting the verticals at about a 30° angle so you have better access to the back of the TV.

PlainBill