Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Yes, that's what I have been saying. It's simply a lack of a full schematic that necessitated experimentation with various capacitors on my part to find the right one -- one that is still commonly found and I could recommend to others doing the same recap job.
JDW.
Mac Guy
Last Activity: 03-15-2020, 12:16 AM
Joined: 05-15-2019
Location: Aichi
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Consider well what I discussed before. The Nichicon capacitor I used originally had even lower ESR but the performance was worse, resulting in higher amplitude ESL spikes and a 1 kHz audible beep sound at power on. That needs to be taken into serious consideration. “Lowest ESR” does not guarantee the capacitor will be the best performer....Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
I purchased 3 capacitors from Mouser, and measured data using my DE-5000:
Illinois Capacitor [url=https://www.mouser.jp/ProductDetail/Illinois-Capacitor-CDE/228CKS010M?qs=%2Fha2pyFadugUeJI5FUyxyBIGjJtCmPacaJUDE2ATJXgFDT4UlSDRgw%3D%3D]228CKS010M[/url] 2000hr@85°C:
[b]ESR[/b]
@100Hz = 60mΩ
@120Hz = 50mΩ
@1000Hz = 43mΩ
@10,00Hz = 39mΩ
@100,00Hz = 42mΩ
[b]DF[/b]@120Hz = 0.90
[b]Capacitance[/b] = 2.11mF
[b]Q[/b]@120Hz...Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Yes, I had seen that chart when I visited the Rubycon website, but it does not mention the SH series from the 1980's, which isn't too big a surprise since I cannot find a mention on their website of any cap made prior to 1999. I also believe the USH series mentioned on page 3 of that PDF is not the same as the SH-series of the 1980's because USH is rated for 85°C whereas my stock cap in this power supply is rated 105°C. The presence or absence of the "U" is yet another differentiator that shows the...Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Well, it's certainly not sold on Mouser. And since I usually share my recapping knowledge with others in the form of a replacement capacitor list, a readily available replacement capacitor that works well is critical.
Using my DE-5000 meter, I made the following measurements today spanning several minutes for each test to ensure the most accurate measurement, all at [B]120Hz[/B] because higher frequencies produced no results on my meter...
[B]Stock Rubycon 2200uf 10V capacitor (SH-series,...Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Here's the [URL="http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/e_pdfs/old/aluminum/e_yxa.pdf"]YXA datasheet[/URL] and [URL="http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/products/old_replace/index.html"]this page[/URL] says it was last sold in 2012.Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Here's the [URL="http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/catalog/e_pdfs/old/aluminum/e_yxa.pdf"]YXA datasheet[/URL] and [URL="http://www.rubycon.co.jp/en/products/old_replace/index.html"]this...Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Where precisely do I find the datasheet for the Rubycon SH-series? That's really the foundation question upon which I built this discussion. I don't know who to ask or where to look.
Thanks....Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
But where can I buy those? I am only finding YXG, YXH, and YXJ on Mouser, in the diameter and length required to fit onto my PCB....Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
I purchased all the caps for my Apple HS20SC external hard disk enclosure's power supply. It works OK with my replacement caps, but my replacement for the [B]Rubycon SH-series 10V 2200uF[/B] capacitor is somewhat of a problem. My replacement is a Nichicon [URL="https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Nichicon/UHE1C222MHD1TO?qs=%2Fha2pyFaduiUKpkDgceKzJ51DVqkYbtvV0bGYFRjfTq2V0cv2MDMfw%3D%3D"]UHE1C222MHD1TO[/URL]. The problem is the power supply makes a brief squeal (beep) sound when I switch on the power. It doesn't make...Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
There is no confusion and I appreciate your comments to date. I simply look forward to hearing specific advice regarding the specific capacitors that I've been mentioning, rather than general advice. Since you have experience in power supply design, especially from that era, I assume you could provide such specific advice, right? I know it helps if we have a schematic, but unfortunately I can't find one....Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Thank you for the replies. You listed a variety of 2200uF caps rated for 6.3V. The stock cap of that same capacitance in the HD20SC power supply are these two:
C214: 2200uF [B]10V[/B], D=12.7mm (Rubycon)
C209: 2200uF [B]16V[/B], D=12.7mm (Rubycon)
Why SONY chose a 10V and 16V of the same capacitance value is a real mystery to me since there is vertical and horizontal space to fit 2pcs of the 16V capacitor. The ESR variance between the 10V and 16V cap would not big significant. For that reason...Last edited by JDW.; 05-20-2019, 06:31 PM.Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Thank you for the advice.
I am unable to find the [B]PM[/B] or [B]PS[/B] or [B]PL[/B] series Nichicon capacitors your suggest on Mouser for the sizes I need. But [B][URL="http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdf_r/Standardization_p12e.pdf"]this Nichicon chart[/URL][/B] shows obsolete and replacement capacitor series. The PL series you mention (replaced by PM) is called "extremely low impedance" by Nichicon. So I'm a bit confused by your advice. If you compare the Tan Delta (Dissipation Factor,...Last edited by JDW.; 05-17-2019, 08:50 PM.Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Here are my [B][URL="https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0wGQOeMmGzwJPA"]photos of the HD20SC SONY PSU[/URL][/B] from 1988, which uses mostly [B]Rubycon[/B] caps. (I'll talk about my CRT yoke board with Sprague caps in a later post.) Again, I am trying to determine if I should use extremely low ESR polymer caps as replacements, for reasons I've already mentioned.
I put together 2 capacitor replacement lists from parts in-stock at Mouser, as follows (click P/N links to visit individual parts pages on Mouser):...Leave a comment:
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Re: Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Thank you!
Alas! No Sprague (non in the Vishay folder either). :-(
The Rubycon datasheets at that link all seem to be rather new -- nothing from the 1980's that I can see. Ditto for the Nichicon datasheets.
Hmmm.......Leave a comment:
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Macintosh polymer recap & ESR considerations
Does anyone have access to old electrolytic capacitor datasheets from the 1980's and 1990's?
I am trying to determine what the typical ESR values were for various capacitors of that era. It's sometimes good to know what the original ESR of the stock capacitors were in order to properly recap vintage computing equipment. This is especially useful in cases where a schematic of the board to be recapped is not available.
Currently on my recap list are the Macintosh 512k (1985) , the 3rd party PSU inside a special Mac 512k that powers a GCC HyperDrive HDD, various Macintosh... -
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