Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

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  • Dannyx
    CertifiedAxhole
    • Aug 2016
    • 3912
    • Romania

    #1

    Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

    Greetings to all of the wonderful folks here. Hope you can help me with a bit of feedback, like you're always so kind to do, on this Vestel 17PW06-2 power board I'm tinkering with. When I first got this TV, it was completely dead, as not even the standby light would come on. Upon opening it up, the only problem I could spot right away was a shorted diode (D321 to be exact, not sure if you can quite spot all of the labels in the pictures), so I replaced it and now the TV sort-of "wants" to turn on, but doesn't actually do so. What happens is, I plug it in, the power LED now comes on and cycles between orange and blue, indicating the set is powering on and then....nothing: the LED remains blue and that's it - no picture and no backlight. Taking some measurements on the power supply, it looks like I still have a short somewhere, because when the TV is in standby, I read 24v on the 3 caps in the top left of the board (C209-C211), which are part of the LED drive, which is normal, and also 5v and 12v on the respective caps (the horizontal ones, though I can't remember which ones exactly), but after the LED turns blue, the 12v bus drops to around 7v and stays there and the 24 volts also drop (until eventually probably reaching close to 0, since I'm only reading the discharging caps at that point). As far as I know, the LED output should jump to around 100v shortly after startup :|
    I flipped the board around and on the back I had a look at the two ICs which I pictured sepparately for a better view: the one with the last 4 legs joined together is the one I'm after (IC401). It's a MDS5652 dual transistor and my multimeter reads a short between pin 3 and pins 7-8. The strange part is that pin 3 is the source S of transistor 2 and pins 7-8 are the drains of transistor 1, so is it really possible for the two transistors to become internally "cross-shorted" and cause this "no power up" issue, or am I aiming at the wrong component altogether ? Is there something else I should check ? I've obsiously checked all the discrete components like diodes and trasistors and they seem fine, which is backed up by the fact that in standby I do get correct voltages - it's only when the TV fires up that I get the big voltage drop. I also tried disconnecting the LED connector (PL201 - upper left) but no change. Could it be the main board that's busted ? I'll try powering up just the the power supply and see what happens. Meanwhile, has anybody else faced this issue ? I've read around, but couldn't find an exact answer. Cheers.
    Attached Files
    Wattevah...
  • dick_barton
    Badcaps Legend
    • Aug 2015
    • 6643
    • Wales

    #2
    Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

    If you remove it and then check if there is still a short between pins 3 (S2) and pins 7 (D1) & 8 (D1) then it is indeed faulty. Although unusual it may well be the case.

    Edit
    Just looked at the schematic and those pins are connected together on the pcb.
    http://www.electronica-pt.com/esquem...artdown/28801/
    Last edited by dick_barton; 11-08-2016, 09:27 AM.
    Willing to help but I'm no expert.

    Comment

    • dick_barton
      Badcaps Legend
      • Aug 2015
      • 6643
      • Wales

      #3
      Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

      Have you disconnected the main board and jumped PS_On to Vstby to check all the supplies including led supply come up.
      I wonder if you have a problem on the main board, possibly one of the voltage regulators.
      Willing to help but I'm no expert.

      Comment

      • Dannyx
        CertifiedAxhole
        • Aug 2016
        • 3912
        • Romania

        #4
        Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

        Originally posted by dick_barton
        If you remove it and then check if there is still a short between pins 3 (S2) and pins 7 (D1) & 8 (D1) then it is indeed faulty. Although unusual it may well be the case.

        Edit
        Just looked at the schematic and those pins are connected together on the pcb.
        http://www.electronica-pt.com/esquem...artdown/28801/
        Yes, had another look at the schematic myself (now in peace, since I'm at home and no longer at work where it's like a hurricane all the time >_>) and indeed I failed to notice the "CSSD" tag that links all 3 pins together, so you're right - good thing I didn't pull the IC out....next thing to do is start the power supply without the main board and see what happens. The more I dig, the more I suspect the main board being bad...I don't know what model it is right now, since I don't have it before me, but I know it has the "touch panel" controls and not the little dial on the side of the AV jack.
        Wattevah...

        Comment

        • Dannyx
          CertifiedAxhole
          • Aug 2016
          • 3912
          • Romania

          #5
          Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

          Originally posted by dick_barton
          Have you disconnected the main board and jumped PS_On to Vstby to check all the supplies including led supply come up.
          I wonder if you have a problem on the main board, possibly one of the voltage regulators.
          I've just tried the power board on its on: it seems it's one of those "always on" PSUs, as I'm getting all of the voltages even with the "On/off" pin floating, plus that pin is not actually connected to anything - it just goes to a "dead" trace. However, it does have a "BL ON" pin, which actually goes somewhere, and upon applying 5v to this pin via a small value resistor (just to be safe), the same thing happens: all of the voltages drop, so it's not a main board issue. As soon as I let the pin float, it's back to normal, so I suspect something's up with the LED driver (the area around the transformer in the top left).
          UPDATE: browsing around the web, I found a chap who had ran into a fairly similar issue and at one point he measured VCC going to the main switching IC in the primary (IC201 on the back), on pin 7, and found it to also drop from 18v to 7v when BL ON is applied. I took the same measurement and sure enough, the same thing happens with my set: apply 5v to BL and VCC on pin7 drops to 7 - definitely not ok. The guy said he had replaced cap C201 which is in parallel with the IC's VCC pin, but it didn't change anything, so I'm thinking about trying that myself. We now know the problem might extend in the primary side as well :|
          Last edited by Dannyx; 11-09-2016, 02:32 AM. Reason: Update
          Wattevah...

          Comment

          • Dannyx
            CertifiedAxhole
            • Aug 2016
            • 3912
            • Romania

            #6
            Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

            UPDATE 2: after messing around with this board all day, I decided to change IC200 (the lone optoisolator on the left). I replaced it with one from a Samsung board I had laying around, but the result was the same. I put back the original opto and guess what: the 24v bus is completely dead now....wtf ? :| I still get around 18v on the VCC pin of the switching IC, but nothing out of the other side of the transformer....wtf could've broken down after messing with that opto ? :| 12v and 5v are still there, but only until BL tries to turn on....this just got worse now.
            Wattevah...

            Comment

            • dick_barton
              Badcaps Legend
              • Aug 2015
              • 6643
              • Wales

              #7
              Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

              Is the Aux_12 supply dropping when you attempt to bring on the backlights. You could have a problem with IC303 (ICEBR1765J)
              Attached Files
              Willing to help but I'm no expert.

              Comment

              • Dannyx
                CertifiedAxhole
                • Aug 2016
                • 3912
                • Romania

                #8
                Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                Originally posted by dick_barton
                Is the Aux_12 supply dropping when you attempt to bring on the backlights. You could have a problem with IC303 (ICEBR1765J)
                Ok, some more updates: measuring around, I noticed there's a short on the primary side of the optoisolator IC200. I removed it and the short was still there. I then started tracing the short back towards the switching IC (IC201), removing both the zener diode D204 and the ceramic cap C200, but my meter still beeped. At this point, it was pretty clear that pin 2 (feedback) of the 6742HR (IC201) has become shorted to ground internally, forcing the FET to stay off, explaining the lack of 24v. I will be replacing ALL of the components I mentioned and see what happens. As for the AUX_V winding of the other transformer, after it goes through the inductor L300 and into the diode D302, I get around 7.5v after that diode (D302), which to my mind is way too low. This value is present all the time (BL connected or not). I tried replacing R310 with a lower value resistor, but it didn't change anything (I don't have both R310 and R311 in place on the board - there's only one and it has a very low value, like half an ohm, which is actually OK, given that the schematic shows two 15ohm resistors in parallel, which would give 7.5ohms, so I doubt it's a fault).
                Funny thing is that pin 7 of IC303 (the ICEBR IC) reads 20v, which I think is fine,
                Wattevah...

                Comment

                • dick_barton
                  Badcaps Legend
                  • Aug 2015
                  • 6643
                  • Wales

                  #9
                  Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                  If Vcc_Main reads 20V then Vcc_Main_12 should read only one diode drop difference (D327) so should be approx 19.3V. I would replace D327
                  Willing to help but I'm no expert.

                  Comment

                  • Dannyx
                    CertifiedAxhole
                    • Aug 2016
                    • 3912
                    • Romania

                    #10
                    Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                    Originally posted by dick_barton
                    If Vcc_Main reads 20V then Vcc_Main_12 should read only one diode drop difference (D327) so should be approx 19.3V. I would replace D327
                    That's what I said is weird: doesn't power come FROM the AUX12 winding transformer, through L300, through D302 and then goes to VCC MAIN and VCC MAIN 12 ? You're telling me to replace D327, which makes it sound like power is not getting though to ICBR, but it IS, because I get 20 volts after D327 (pin 7 of ICBR). Do you mean D302 instead? That would make more sense, since it's the diode though which all the current is rectified after coming from the AUX12 winding. Correct me if I'm wrong.
                    Last edited by Dannyx; 11-09-2016, 07:50 AM. Reason: Corrected error
                    Wattevah...

                    Comment

                    • dick_barton
                      Badcaps Legend
                      • Aug 2015
                      • 6643
                      • Wales

                      #11
                      Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                      Originally posted by dannyx
                      that's what i said is weird: Doesn't power come from the aux12 winding transformer, through l300, through d302 and then goes to vcc main and vcc main 12 ? You're telling me to replace r327, which makes it sound like power is not getting though to icbr, but it is, because i get 20 volts after d327 (pin 7 of icbr). Do you mean d302 instead? That would make more sense, since it's the diode though which all the current is rectified after coming from the aux12 winding. Correct me if i'm wrong.
                      r327???
                      No I mean D327 (RS1008, SOD123) as shown in the clip above. You have VCC_Main (20V) but you say that VCC_Main_12 is at 7V
                      Last edited by dick_barton; 11-09-2016, 07:45 AM.
                      Willing to help but I'm no expert.

                      Comment

                      • dick_barton
                        Badcaps Legend
                        • Aug 2015
                        • 6643
                        • Wales

                        #12
                        Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                        Just had another look at the circuit and something does not make sense.
                        You say that

                        IC303 pin 7 (VCC_Main_12) =20V
                        D302 (VCC_Main) =7.5V

                        If that is the case then I think that the circuit shown above cannot be the correct schematic.
                        Last edited by dick_barton; 11-09-2016, 07:53 AM.
                        Willing to help but I'm no expert.

                        Comment

                        • Dannyx
                          CertifiedAxhole
                          • Aug 2016
                          • 3912
                          • Romania

                          #13
                          Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                          Originally posted by dick_barton
                          r327???
                          No I mean D327 (RS1008, SOD123) as shown in the clip above. You have VCC_Main (20V) but you say that VCC_Main_12 is at 7V
                          Sorry, I mispelled my reply. I meant to say "you're telling me to replace D327", not R327...I replaced D302 anyhow (the one which rectifies the AUX12 winding (read my corrected post) and the same problem happens. Sorry, I'm still not sure why you'd suggest to replace D327, since it's essentially feeding the VCC pin of the IC ICBR, which receives power just fine. However, this VCC pin of ICBR DOES jump around between 5-12-17 then back, when I connect BL to 5v, so it's like the feedback circuit is not letting it stabilize.
                          Wattevah...

                          Comment

                          • Dannyx
                            CertifiedAxhole
                            • Aug 2016
                            • 3912
                            • Romania

                            #14
                            Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                            Originally posted by dick_barton
                            Just had another look at the circuit and something does not make sense.
                            You say that

                            IC303 pin 7 (VCC_Main_12) =20V
                            D302 (VCC_Main) =7.5V

                            If that is the case then I think that the circuit shown above cannot be the correct schematic.
                            Exactly my point about this not making sense - I see you got it as well The schematic appears to be the correct one (at least I see the correct model and version in the bottom right of the first page)...replaced D327 for good measure (I actually swapped it with D302 which I pulled out earlier)
                            Wattevah...

                            Comment

                            • dick_barton
                              Badcaps Legend
                              • Aug 2015
                              • 6643
                              • Wales

                              #15
                              Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                              Can you do a continuity check at Vcc_Main & Vcc_Main_12 and see if the readings match the schematic.
                              Willing to help but I'm no expert.

                              Comment

                              • Dannyx
                                CertifiedAxhole
                                • Aug 2016
                                • 3912
                                • Romania

                                #16
                                Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                                Originally posted by dick_barton
                                Can you do a continuity check at Vcc_Main & Vcc_Main_12 and see if the readings match the schematic.
                                Yes, they do - I don't think I need my meter for that one I can just tell by looking at the traces: VCC MAIN 12 is what goes through D327 and into VCC of ICBR. VCC MAIN then goes to D326. I'm thinking about that Q306 (a BC327): I get roughly 17v on all of its 3 terminals when BL is not connected and when it is, I get fluctuating voltages on the base and emitter and a steady 7v something on its collector (the pin attached to the positive leg of cap C318 for quick reference).
                                Wattevah...

                                Comment

                                • dick_barton
                                  Badcaps Legend
                                  • Aug 2015
                                  • 6643
                                  • Wales

                                  #17
                                  Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                                  Q306 switches on/off VCC.
                                  I would remove and test Q306 as those readings don't appear to be correct.

                                  I thought you posted that you had 7.5V at D302 which would mean that both VCC_Main and VCC_Main_12 would both be around 7.5V
                                  However you also say "because I get 20 volts after D327 (pin 7 of ICBR)" which is VCC_Main_12
                                  So is it, VCC_Main, VCC_Main_12 or VCC which is not correct?
                                  Willing to help but I'm no expert.

                                  Comment

                                  • Dannyx
                                    CertifiedAxhole
                                    • Aug 2016
                                    • 3912
                                    • Romania

                                    #18
                                    Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                                    Originally posted by dick_barton
                                    Q306 switches on/off VCC.
                                    I would remove and test Q306 as those readings don't appear to be correct.

                                    I thought you posted that you had 7.5V at D302 which would mean that both VCC_Main and VCC_Main_12 would both be around 7.5V
                                    However you also say "because I get 20 volts after D327 (pin 7 of ICBR)" which is VCC_Main_12
                                    So is it, VCC_Main, VCC_Main_12 or VCC which is not correct?
                                    Damn, so many VCCs it's crazy Here's the breakdown (roughly): VCC MAIN 12 (the one going to pin 7 of ICBR) is 20v until BL is applied. At that point, it starts jumping around like I mentioned.
                                    VCC MAIN
                                    (the one coming through D302 from AUX) is now 12v, but again, if BL is applied, it jumps around between 8 and 12v.
                                    Lastly, VCC, plain and simple, the one that powers the main switching IC (IC201) is 18V with no BL and 7.8 WITH BL active.
                                    Wattevah...

                                    Comment

                                    • dick_barton
                                      Badcaps Legend
                                      • Aug 2015
                                      • 6643
                                      • Wales

                                      #19
                                      Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                                      Thanks for the further explanation. So only when the backlight voltage is applied do the VCC_Main, Vcc_Main_12 and VCC voltages change.
                                      Willing to help but I'm no expert.

                                      Comment

                                      • dick_barton
                                        Badcaps Legend
                                        • Aug 2015
                                        • 6643
                                        • Wales

                                        #20
                                        Re: Faulty Vestel 17PW06-2 power supply (dropping voltages, no picture)

                                        There is only one transistor on the power supply board which controls the Backlight On/Off (Q206).

                                        I think you have a fault on the backlight board which is heavily loading the 24V supply when switched on and this is dragging down the other voltages.

                                        Can you run the set without the backlight connected and use two 12V car bulbs in series as a load to test it.

                                        Edit
                                        May also be worth checking diodes D201, D206,D207 & D208
                                        Last edited by dick_barton; 11-09-2016, 09:56 AM.
                                        Willing to help but I'm no expert.

                                        Comment

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