Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

inspect this link i already gave
http://www.hinkel-elektronik.de/pdf_node/42.pdf
your 620 is pan 14(panasonic) and so is 680.
could you provide few pix of that mechanism?

Sorry, the site was unreacheable yesterday and I downloaded the pdf only now.
Tomorrow I'm going to shoot some photos: do you need any details?

my neighbour won't really mind if i hold lg for longer periods...it's not like it's used on a daily basis for recording something etc.
most people use vcrs as players, and these days they also have dvds, pcs etc.

I agree: I rarely record with the Grundig nowadays, but I watch tapes I don't want to buy again in dvd or I can't obtain anymore (e.g. old transmissions from dead channels).
Be nice and ask your neighbour before "kidnapping" his VCR

Zandrax

[i4004]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

>Tomorrow I'm going to shoot some photos: do you need any details?

if you feel like it you can take the bottom lid of and do some pix from there.
if it's easy to do.
if it has many screws, don't bother.

oh yeah, make the pic of the whole machien without the upper lid: we only saw the zoomed detail of where the frako caps are.

>Be nice and ask your neighbour before "kidnapping" his VCR

actually it's her.
ah...we go a loong time back: i remember grabbing her by the butt in any and every ocassion back in the early days!
that help deepen the trust!
hehe...
i told her i'll let her use it for a day every 10 days.
i also told her i'll transfer the tapes she has to dvds.
now, isn't that enough?
hehe....we laugh a lot....

oh yeah, we were assembling her a pc not long time ago, and she surprised me; pretty skillfull broad! i was just telling her what to do, and she did most of the work.
(that's the part i would like more of: ceasar!...hehe)

and i have another naighbour(i remembered he has aiwa vcr when i saw osd of this lg model: it's the same on screen osd!)....so there's one more possibility, but as it's probably same thing as this lg(same osd=same cpu and probably everything else...)

anyway, a new interesting development about the panasonic!
i got a tip(from another-forum buddy..he has experience with vcrs etc. he was the one that told me this grundig is actually philips...) about adjusting roller-guides
(again pic of what's where
http://www.kellerstudio.de/repairfaq/sam/vcrxprt.gif ).
and indeed it worked!
turning the left roller guide ccw by 1/4 turn removed the vertical rolling/shimmer on panasonic!
like i said pana is strong when it comes to drop-out compensation, and only difference i see (compared to grunding) is that it's keeping contrast lower.
for noisy tapes that's actually good.

so now....now i can take it REAL slow, just the way i like my vhs capping(i guess it would go faster if i wasn't capping so much tv(if one was to count all the frames my tv-cards captured...woooh) and ripping(and reading) so much off the web...).

oh yeah, one more question for you: do you know how many channels were you receiving when that vcr was bought(is it same age as you?) in 1987.

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

if you feel like it you can take the bottom lid of and do some pix from there.
if it's easy to do.
if it has many screws, don't bother.

oh yeah, make the pic of the whole machien without the upper lid: we only saw the zoomed detail of where the frako caps are.

Done Now there is a long sequence of photos:

1) Front:


2) Internals with and without flash:



3) Board: caps with light blue jackets are Rubycons, black ones are unknown (according to vents, maybe Elnas). There are two jacketless Philips caps, but I don't think they're polys.


4) Cassette holder:


5) Heads: overview and closeups.




6) Bottom: only 4 screws keep up and bottom lids together; once removed them, the bottom one is kept in place by plastic handles. Surprisingly, it was less dirty than I had expected to be.
Both flash and flashless pictures; the only interesting part is gear detail.




7) Connectors: the back has connectors on the left side and the power plug on the right one. The manual calls Universal connector the round 9 pin connector between the RF output and the Scart plug and, according to the manual, it connects a Sat decoder to the VCR: I found no reference online and I wonder which signals does it carry (RF, composite, S-Video, RGB?) and if it works one-way (decoder -> VCR) or both-ways.
I know there is the old Commodore 64's 8 pin Din connector which carries S-Video, but shape and pin position are different; being 9 pin, I had even suspected it could be a serial port of some kind.


8) Model plate

actually it's her.
ah...we go a loong time back: i remember grabbing her by the butt in any and every ocassion back in the early days!
that help deepen the trust!
hehe...
i told her i'll let her use it for a day every 10 days.
i also told her i'll transfer the tapes she has to dvds.
now, isn't that enough?
hehe....we laugh a lot....

Nice deal

turning the left roller guide ccw by 1/4 turn removed the vertical rolling/shimmer on panasonic!
like i said pana is strong when it comes to drop-out compensation, and only difference i see (compared to grunding) is that it's keeping contrast lower.
for noisy tapes that's actually good.

This means your Panasonic works and you don't need another VCR, right?
My Grundig doesn't have a contrast setting, only an image sharpness one: you may choose to keep the output from slightly blurred to so harsh you see the noise. I usually keep the barely blurred value.

oh yeah, one more question for you: do you know how many channels were you receiving when that vcr was bought(is it same age as you?) in 1987.

I was born in 1985 and, IIRC, my father bought the VCR in Christmas 1988: it was worth the 70% of my dad's monthly wage, nowadays it would cost something like $1500.
I think about 20-25 channels: 3 RAI channels (RAI is Italian state broadcaster), Canale 5 and Italia 1 (the two channels Berlusconi owned at the time), Telemontecarlo 1 and 2 (now respectively La7 and MTV channel), Odeon TV (it should be live again, but I can't see it now), 3 Tele+ channels (first Italian pay-tv: clear at first, then some trasmission were kept free and others, mostly films and soccer plays, were encrypted. Tele+ and Stream TV, the other pay-tv, joint together into Sky Italia in 2003) plus some local broadcasters and networks.

Zandrax

[i4004]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

you're talking about cable channels?
what about terrestrial analog?

i don't see any of those pix....
you didn't have to bother with details about pix; i'll figure it out all right...

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

you're talking about cable channels?
what about terrestrial analog?

The only cable channel in Italy was Stream TV in mid '90s: it used fiber that Telecom Italia (former monopolist telco) was burying for the Socrate project (replacing all copper telephone cables with fiber: it never succeded). All other italian broadcasters were aerial or satellite ones.

i don't see any of those pix....
you didn't have to bother with details about pix; i'll figure it out all right...

I lost two hours: uploads gone mad give me excess acid
I reupload all again ...

1)

2)

3)

4)

5)

6)

7)

8)

I hope it's all ok now, otherwise I'd upload everything on Imageshack or similar services.

Zandrax

[i4004]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

definitely panasonic machanism.
has a lot of resemblance to my old panasonic nv-sd200, i bought that one in 1995, lasted about 8 years.
that one has much more plastic than this one, though.


i made few pix of panasonic while adjusting it, will make picasa online album soon...
in meantime here's that mechanism from another source
http://www.leifline.com/reptips/imag...ekanik_Top.JPG
http://www.leifline.com/reptips/imag...nik_Bottom.JPG

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

definitely panasonic machanism.
has a lot of resemblance to my old panasonic nv-sd200, i bought that one in 1995, lasted about 8 years.
that one has much more plastic than this one, though.

NV-SD200 series uses the Pana23 platform according to Hinkel's: maybe Pana2x gears are cheaper and more fragile than older ones.

Zandrax

[i4004]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

pana23?
may be, but it's also called "k chassis", i have its service manual.

here' are pix i promised
http://picasaweb.google.hr/i4004b3/PanasonicNvHv60#
z mechanism...obviously last chassis they were gonna do as far as vhs is concerned....

seems that elna crap-cap(biggest on secondar side of psu) is next to go.
one(next to it)was already changed(it has blue mark on it)...i changed that one when vcr started acting rather weird...display and control were erratic.

i dunno would your mech take the beating nv-sd200 did: what i was doing it would be acceptable for pro-grade machine, but for consumer grade machine...it did well, considering how many times loading motor was engaged(esp. for rewind with picture)

nv-sd200 was bought in '95, lasted till 2003, then i bought nv-hv60.

and when it comes to grundig, broad(not the one i got lg from this one's older) broke it as soon as i return the vcr to her!
seems she was a bit rough when inserting the tape so she broke one gear teeth, and loading motor was spinning on empty(this gear connects loading motor and main gear and eject mechanism...i'll make pix when replacememnt part arrives, ie when i'll be putting it back together).
(which reminded me of ebay vcr i mentioned and scenic tried to get owner to sell(earlier in this thread)...it's probably simillar error, as this one was pretty loud too when it started...)
found a part
http://www.nedis.com/Articles/Philips/310.10657.php
ordered it, so we'll see how that goes...broken teeth is on the worm shaft.

btw. upon dismantling the vcr it became apparent this is vcr from 1995. as it has plastic seal inside the front mask.

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

i dunno would your mech take the beating nv-sd200 did: what i was doing it would be acceptable for pro-grade machine, but for consumer grade machine...it did well, considering how many times loading motor was engaged(esp. for rewind with picture)

I don't know if I and my brother abused of the Grundig when we were child: both of us used to watch the same tape several times a day for 2-3 weeks straight when sick (mostly Disney cartoons: I loved "Pinocchio", my bro "The Jungle book" and "The Lion king"), later he recordered almost any episode of a particular cartoon (about 100 hours in tape: older cassettes were overwritten over time). We're carefull with rewind though
Maybe you really abused your Pana while we simply played too much with the Grundig, no idea. In last 4 years I recordered very little on VHS, that's true.

and when it comes to grundig, broad(not the one i got lg from this one's older) broke it as soon as i return the vcr to her!
seems she was a bit rough when inserting the tape so she broke one gear teeth, and loading motor was spinning on empty(this gear connects loading motor and main gear and eject mechanism...i'll make pix when replacememnt part arrives, ie when i'll be putting it back together).

Maybe the gear is the weakpoint (or one of weakpoints) of that model: I hope you can fix it.

Zandrax

[i4004]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

yes, seems so, as that is the part of that particular mech. kit for that vcr.

i essentially used pana as editing station(along with another vcr to copy to, or from).
so there was a lot of work for the loading motor and main lever, which are the parts i had problems with....not with loading motor itself, but its plastic jacket that connects it to the worm...plastic jacket would crack, and then motor would slip...
i kept the cover AND chassis unscrewed to be able to fix it quickly as it was happening a lot...hehe...then i've put a piece of children's baloon and this created the friction i needed( so in the end it was
steel shaft of motor->children baloon piece->plastic jacket->worm), and also it ment worm needed some force to be mounted to that plastic jacket(as baloon was now between the jacket and steel shaft of motor, making everything thicker...)

here (with grundig) situation also includes loading motor slipping, but because one gear teeth is broken.

with that pana nvsd200 problem was loading motor was underneath the chassis. so i had to take the chassis out everytime it happened.
with nvhv60 this wouldn't be the problem as loading motor is on the upper side of chassis....could hand-cycle it easilly without taking out the whole mechanism...
but nvhv60 didn't need it thus far.....

here are g, k and z mechanisms in one rar file.
http://bbsrv.wks.gorlaeus.net/~i4004...mechanism_.rar

g seems to be simillar to yours(if not the same).
interesting things in z pdf:

page 3 has outline...and also differences to prev. chassis...
(they replaced aluminium die-cast chassis with metal sheet....if chassis was aluminum i wouldn't have the problem i had, as chassis couldn't be twisted so easilly and cause problems
http://groups.google.com/group/aus.d...bc59b29630d3d7
overall, z mech was a reduction to bare minimum...)

page 33 self diagnostics(this was also in the nvsd200...)

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

i essentially used pana as editing station(along with another vcr to copy to, or from).
so there was a lot of work for the loading motor and main lever, which are the parts i had problems with....not with loading motor itself, but its plastic jacket that connects it to the worm...plastic jacket would crack, and then motor would slip...

What a sloppy assembly! You used it as a professional vcr and you abused it, true, however I think Panasonic spared too much on the Z series: badly assembled plastics and a weak chassis sould have been troublesome even for "normal" users.

g seems to be simillar to yours(if not the same).
interesting things in z pdf:

[...]page 33 self diagnostics(this was also in the nvsd200...)

Right: mine should be G or K series, not sure.
Self diagnostic is different: Grundig has its own "language" (e.g. CASS for any cassette-related trouble like wrong loading). I remember some rare "F 0x" error message though.

Zandrax

[Scenic]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

BTW: i'm still waiting for that ebay guy to put the auction back up...

so much for "a few days" *lol*

[i4004]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

>I hope you can fix it.

yeah, i fixed it, but i would prefer to work on panasonic.
it was this
http://www.nedis.com/Articles/Philips/310.10657.php
(worm gear)


scenic here's service manual portion that has to do with mechanics...i've added few more pics..
http://fileshare.eshop.bg/downloadsm...o%20drive.html
that is if you ever get that vcr..hehe...

i would rather find some panasonic, it's surely better design than this...(any panasonic, old or new).

in the end i think customer would look much more clever if my offer to make dvds and buy them dvd player was accepted.
as it chewed few more tapes because of dew condensation, and then after cleaning the heads with cotton swabs and alcohol too.
now they hesitate to insert any cassette into it...hehe...
but let them have it that way, as it has "sentimental" value...pih...

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

yeah, i fixed it, but i would prefer to work on panasonic.
it was this
http://www.nedis.com/Articles/Philips/310.10657.php
(worm gear)

I know, but it was your neighbour's vcr and you couldn't but repair it. Am I wrong?

in the end i think customer would look much more clever if my offer to make dvds and buy them dvd player was accepted.
as it chewed few more tapes because of dew condensation, and then after cleaning the heads with cotton swabs and alcohol too.
now they hesitate to insert any cassette into it...hehe...
but let them have it that way, as it has "sentimental" value...pih...

I agree: anyway excessive dew condensation is connected to high humidity and low temps (dew point of water changes with temperature following a logarithmic law). Try heating the room where the vcr is set or reducing the humidity with a dehumidifier: cheap dehumidifiers are boxes full of silica gel.

Zandrax

[i4004]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

dew condensation incident occured because they didn't want to wait long enough(it was pretty late).
that made me remember how that can't really happen with dvds; even if it's soaking wet, it won't hurt it.
here, you destroy the media if dew condensed in the vcr or on tape.
it's not fully destroyed, bit what to do, cut away bad parts and splice it?
meh...i cursed the damn system with tape and big metal drum...

if they accepted my generous offer(to convert vhs to dvds and buy them dvd-player) they would now have reliable way to playback their stuff.
this way they have shaky vcr and few destroyed tapes.

>I know, but it was your neighbour's vcr and you couldn't but repair it. Am I wrong?

no, neighbour's vcr was the LG.
although grunding owners are also not far away from where i live.

now it seems to me the biggest problem are their crappy tapes.
while it was here(at my place) vcr worked without issues(bare that strange thing when i inserted cassette and rollerguides just passed the tape without picking it up...still hard to explain how can that happen). never chewed the tape...all well.
as soon as it got there they break the worm wheel.
(mechanism is a bit 'tight' to accept the cassette, it's not smooth as panasonic...it requires soft touch and slow cassette insertion)
after that these dew incidents and their crappy tapes don't help either....
vcrs are just not machines for everybody.
dvd-player would be much better suited for their needs...they don't record from tv anyway, and it would be harder for them to break it...
they had these hard to explain insidents before, where vcr would chew the tape...probably also can be explained by quality of their tapes...
some of them hardly move the reels when you press the reel releaser near the bottom of the cassette...(if you try to spin the reel with your fingers it just won't move...)

oh well, it was their decision.
if they want dvds made from their vhs now, they'll pay it dearly.
(heh...i'm too good person..when i say dearly i actually mean the price anybody else converting vhs to dvds is charging......
if they accepted my offer they would have it for free....i would gain nothing(if i got their vcr) because vcr that old is not really worth anything even if it's top condition...)

[zandrax]

Re: Frako caps in Grundig VS620 vcr

dew condensation incident occured because they didn't want to wait long enough(it was pretty late).
that made me remember how that can't really happen with dvds; even if it's soaking wet, it won't hurt it.

Right: water drips expelled from the spinning disc would have fallen on the chassis and, maybe, electronics. A strong "BZAP!", smell of fried silicon, nothing else to save ... Nobody hurt either
They would have destroyed even a simple turntable ...

no, neighbour's vcr was the LG.
although grunding owners are also not far away from where i live.

Sorry, I got confused.

as soon as it got there they break the worm wheel.
(mechanism is a bit 'tight' to accept the cassette, it's not smooth as panasonic...it requires soft touch and slow cassette insertion)
after that these dew incidents and their crappy tapes don't help either....
vcrs are just not machines for everybody.

Agree. At a general point, machines aren't for everybody ...

if they accepted my offer they would have it for free....i would gain nothing(if i got their vcr) because vcr that old is not really worth anything even if it's top condition...)

Just another vcr for next time your Pana breaks or overheats

Zandrax