HiSense 65H6510G no boot

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Wow, what complete BS, they need to quit using eMMC, they are the cheapest way to go for a reason, just since this thread, I have seen page after page of these junk chips messing everything up, also page after page of the Tesla debacle and a host of other vehicles of course.

BTW, eMMC trend is unstoppable because it is the fast non volatile memory. It what is allowing super fast consumer devices after switching away from HDDs.

And cell write cycles keeps getting shorter (single level SLC -> Multi Level Cell (MLC which is what these TVs use) -> Triple Level Cell (TLC) -> QLC!) TLCs are already < 1000 cycles so it requires either vary large capacity to spread out the writes (wear leveling) or have very little writes.

Problem is software sees these eMMC as read/write file systems. So if the engineer doesn't always think about flash memory technology longevity. They can easily kill eMMC by wearing it out with too much writes.

Computer makers are the most advanced and have the fewest OS variations but cheap SSD makers will skip DRAM/SLC write caching and consumer has to accept poor longevity. Non computer makers is where many trial and error exist... Many devices, many operating systems and customizations. So more software engineers on many more HW/SW versions will make mistake. Probably every company will make same mistake in initial 1-2 product cycles. Also software consideration need to keep evolving as NAND cell write cycles keeps on reducing.

Anyway, looking through the table of contents on eMMC spec is quite interesting. There is huge amount of complexity inside. As much as basic CPU and GPUs. Its far from just a block of memory.

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

No, I haven't heard about it, it could be about UFS flash or about the encrypted firmware that Sony uses in some models.
Not everything can be read as a card reader with eMMC, in my opinion only the USER section and that's it.

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Here is the emmc pinout if you want to read data from emmc via ISP through the programmer.
The main thing is not to heat it up! (will die completely), but try to freeze.

haha nice find. Thanks! I got the eMMC datasheet pinout also.

I know can solder on cheap USB/eMMC reader, freeze and try to read. But latest eMMC itself contains multiple partitions and access security rights. I read 4pda post some people say its fantasy to achieve success... Do you know if actually possible?

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Yes, many companies are already making eMMC firmware (with keys), binding to the ID of the SOC itself, and if you write someone else's eMMC dump, we get a castrato (crippled). That's why they try to pull as much data and partitions out of eMMC as possible.

I'm actually very familiar with these security design techniques (built content download consumer devices previously)

They put ID inside the biggest most advanced lithography chip. Avoid few pin old technology chip (can make clone mod chips) where pirates can make easily and teenager can solder. Some even bury high security keys under layers of lithographed metal plane on chip to cover it up. Some even make destructive if try to grind down chip and read.

They also often severely limit access to the list of SN to DeviceID to security key tables. Board manufacturers don't have them (piracy source) and designer evolved to the point where they don't even have them.

This put security in difficult to access locations effort is a forever evolving battle with pirates. Put in eMMC but if eMMC dies then system is bricked. eMMC evolution will surely address this (may already have) by adding more robust SLC NAND cells to store security keys. But software still need to do the right action and not cripple itself when reading lower reliability cells (MLC, TLC etc) where the first boot code is fail.

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Here is the emmc pinout if you want to read data from emmc via ISP through the programmer.
The main thing is not to heat it up! (will die completely), but try to freeze.

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Yes, many companies are already making eMMC firmware (with keys), binding to the ID of the SOC itself, and if you write someone else's eMMC dump, we get a castrato (crippled). That's why they try to pull as much data and partitions out of eMMC as possible.

[nomoresonys]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Wow, what complete BS, they need to quit using eMMC, they are the cheapest way to go for a reason, just since this thread, I have seen page after page of these junk chips messing everything up, also page after page of the Tesla debacle and a host of other vehicles of course.

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

USB<->TTL UART Dongle

• Have 2 (old PL2303HXA, CH340G)
• Both work with terminal apps to receive SOC CPU log.
• mstv_tool not finding CH340G serial port. What driver do you use?
• DMM confirmed dongle TX/RX continuity to SOC UART ESD and 3.3v pull up resistor. Both paths are good.
• When PC transmits, dongle TX LED blink

mstv_tool and SOC Communication

• I guess maybe failed eMMC maybe doesn't give chance for communication.
• boot to eMMC error is < 1s (see time stamped log output)
• likely no mstv_tool and SOC CPU software rendezvous mechanism. eMMC error could be coded to not properly respond to UART RX interrupt in early boot phase. software would need to anticipate eMMC failure to properly respond to mstv_tool. Don't know for sure.
• probably boot need to not have eMMC error, try to fetch UBoot unsuccessfully (software probably planned for this), flash standby LED lights and wait for mstv_tool.

Security Keys on eMMC

Contacted pre-flashed eMMC seller. They said don't have and most stream apps and HDMI will not work without original eMMC. I guess many security keys are on eMMC. So dead eMMC = very limited board even if can be repaired.

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Good usb - uart (CP2102)
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005003238623602.html

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

[*]Set to USB Serial COM port. Same 115200 baud, 8 bit, no parity, 1 stop as terminal programs.[*]Read Bank tries to read and give UART receive error

baud 115200 are the interface of the PC to have correct log letters. Soc during boot send / read at different baud to communicate with external and internal.
i use CH341A at serial configuration 3.3V level to the pc with same yours baud. i connect it to serial adapter az same 3.3V level and then go to target UART.
any time the Soc changed baud the serial adapter will deal with it and changed as Soc wish , with out effect on CH341A baud connection.

[nomoresonys]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Maybe go to hisense site, they're rather silly, they want you to put in your serial #, before they will let you search for firmware, then see if the firmware they have matches any other models besides those 2, it seems if the firmware is compatible with other models then those boards conceivably could work.

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

try to use MS TV client here are lite and full eMMC function.
after you run exe it will give error.. keep press ok it will start and find yours serial UART

Thanks, tried the same versions in post #63. Unfortunately same unable to properly connect behavior

• Need to click through the external exception COFB007E errors during launch (I assume exe just not finding DLLs for unnecessary debug hardware for older TVs)
• Set to USB Serial COM port. Same 115200 baud, 8 bit, no parity, 1 stop as terminal programs.
• Read Bank tries to read and give UART receive error
• One time saw read bank gradually increase. But the increase was only from SOC printing log/error messages. So clearly, need to stop the SOC from printing as indicated by the MSTAR usage guidelines.

Here is a new good MStar ISP utility with support for : eMMC, NAND, SPI.

Thanks! Was going to search for this utility next

Says can't find HW on first launch (PL2303HXA<->3.5mm service port on COM9) and couldn't do anything in menu of course. All launches after first time just silently quit... Strange.

mstv_tool

• Maybe eMMC failure prevents this from working? Also if any server code has to be loaded on the SOC CPU from eMMC, then can't get that far with eMMC has failed.
  
• Service manual says need to run mstv_tool to get device ID and email for a password to unlock flash eMMC capability. So if can't run this... probably the only solution remain is a eMMC chip programmer (RT809H with a 153FBGA socket)
• mstv_tool has no get Device ID button.
• mstv_tool procedure require stopping the UART in 1 of 3 ways (<<MSTAR>># du in MSTAR mode, 00112233 in Supernova mode, nothing if no UART activity) I guess mstv_tool, terminal, and SOC are just all sharing this serial port so they can not all use the port at same time. Tried entering 00112233 in terminal (even in a self repeating macro in case need to be specific timing on boot), no change, UART keeps on bootloop on eMMC error.
  
• Tested TX pin from USB serial dongle all the way to the bottom metal connection finger of the 3.5mm socket for continuity to ensure able to transmit to the SOC CPU.

i2c utility

• This probably require the special mstv usb debug tool?

===

My main motivation is to find cost effective solution for average DIYers. Purchasing more repair tools and replacing eMMC is probably beyond many DIYers. Will investigate if 2021 HiSense 65" TV main board can be easily compatible.

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Here is a new good MStar ISP utility with support for : eMMC, NAND, SPI.

yes indeed... but at end all tools for the Taiwanese Soc pro command via putty or Linux terminal can be done more effectively... the tools just UI screen

[lotas]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

try to use MS TV client here are lite and full eMMC function.
after you run exe it will give error.. keep press ok it will start and find yours serial UART

Here is a new good MStar ISP utility with support for : eMMC, NAND, SPI.

[nomoresonys]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

I'm not paying that much for freeze spray, I'll do the diy dry ice, lol: https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-mak...dry-ice-606400

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

try to use MS TV client here are lite and full eMMC function.
after you run exe it will give error.. keep press ok it will start and find yours serial UART

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

hmmm you are good at cents counting

Freeze spray near me is $25 and of course doesn't provide any permanent fix even if shows eMMC can work temporarily.

I'm considering purchasing RSAG7.820.10315 board (2021 65R6G main board) for < $15 and check if t-con output is compatible. This would be the best solution for other repair efforts if can work. But unknown success of course. PSU, IR/LED/KEY, speaker all seem compatible but at least wifi module+cable is different.

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Connect MSTAR_TOOL

Running MSTAR_TOOL but no connection to the SOC.

• MSTAR document says UART is off by default and requiring turning on (TV menu setting) to use with debug tools. Does "off" mean only SOC can't receive UART? or both don't receive and transmit? SOC UART obviously transmitting output to my serial dongle in SBoot.
  
• Does anyone know if MSTAR_TOO app can be used with generic USB<->Serial dongle (Have CH340 and PL2303HXA (A=old version ~2012)) or have to purchase MSTAR USB Debug dongle? I set tool to UART 115200 protocol but seems to not connect.
  
• MSTAR USB Debug dongle usually comes with VGA adapter. For this TV with 3.5mm service port. I assume just connect debug dongle serial TTL GND/RX/TX to 3.5mm jack?

[Diah]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

Don't have any so need to wait and order with other repair supplies.

hmmm you are good at cents counting

[howardc64]

Re: HiSense 65H6510G no boot

we asked you before to freeze the eMMC LOL

Don't have any so need to wait and order with other repair supplies.