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the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

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    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

    Originally posted by momaka View Post
    Possibly... if it has more turns for each rail (i.e. higher inductance).
    A bigger toroid inductor should definitely allow for higher power output, though. Or at least somewhat higher (the wires of the big inductor also need to be thicker, otherwise it may be just as capable as a smaller ones).
    Thanks for the answer, i have another question, there are some cheap psus with no places for pi coils, can more capacitance compensate for that, or the ripple will be through the roof regardless? for example 2x2200uF 16V instead of 1000uF

    Comment


      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

      Concur with W547, 200W max. And with 330uF I/P caps the hold-up time will be marginal or worse. Two things I did not see are a 7912 for the -12V and a 7905 for the -5V. Are those O/Ps semi-regulated? Or did I some how miss the 3Ts?

      Those "Y-caps" look like generic ceramic disc caps, maybe rated for 2KV, not safety agency approved parts. X-caps? We don't got no steenking X-caps!

      Nothing about that PSU is adequate for 400W, from the 330uF I/P caps through (i.e. including) the O/P wires. I'm not sure 4 AWG #20 wires are rated to carry 22A (and even if they are, those wires are going to get very very warm).

      As a 200W PSU it'd be an unsafe POS. Try drawing 400W, and , loud noise, bright flash, and unpleasant smell.
      PeteS in CA

      Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
      ****************************
      To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
      ****************************
      Anti-Covid-Vaxxer pig crap claim/prediction, Doctor: Heart Failure from mRNA Jabs "Will Kill Most People" | Principia Scientific Intl. ; Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche Warns COVID-19 Jab Injuries and Deaths Will Soon "Collapse Our Health System" (VIDEO) ; Fully Vaxxed May 2021; Since that time I've done 13 5Ks, 1 8K, 12 10Ks, and 4 half marathons

      Comment


        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

        And a beeping smoke detector.
        Don't buy those $10 PSU "specials". They fail, and they have taken whole computers with them.

        My computer doubles as a space heater.

        Permanently Retired Systems:
        RIP Advantech UNO-3072LA (2008-2021) - Decommissioned and taken out of service permanently due to lack of software support for it. Not very likely to ever be recommissioned again.
        Asus Q550LF (Old main laptop, 2014-2022) - Decommissioned and stripped due to a myriad of problems, the main battery bloating being the final nail in the coffin.


        Kooky and Kool Systems
        - 1996 Power Macintosh 7200/120 + PC Compatibility Card - Under Restoration
        - 1993 Gateway 2000 80486DX/50 - Fully Operational/WIP
        - 2004 Athlon 64 Retro Gaming System - Indefinitely Parked
        - Main Workstation - Fully operational!

        sigpic

        Comment


          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

          Originally posted by forza764 View Post
          Thanks for the answer, i have another question, there are some cheap psus with no places for pi coils, can more capacitance compensate for that, or the ripple will be through the roof regardless? for example 2x2200uF 16V instead of 1000uF
          Yes, increasing the capacitance will definitely help lower the ripple. But as far as lowering it enough to keep it within ATX specifications - that, I don't know. Only way to find out the answer to such a question is to load the PSU with a load tester and measure the ripple/noise on the outputs with an oscilloscope.

          Originally posted by PeteS in CA View Post
          As a 200W PSU it'd be an unsafe POS. Try drawing 400W, and , loud noise, bright flash, and unpleasant smell.
          No worries. I don't use it even for powering small electronics. Have a better gutless PSU for that, which I actually might upgrade some day, since it's based on the CWT ISO platform and has stable voltage regulation.

          Originally posted by PeteS in CA View Post
          Two things I did not see are a 7912 for the -12V and a 7905 for the -5V. Are those O/Ps semi-regulated? Or did I some how miss the 3Ts?
          No regulation for -12V and -5V rails. Just 2x FR104 diodes > toroid inductor > filter cap > ATX wires. Oh, and big-ass loading resistors. I suppose that's your regulation right there!

          Originally posted by PeteS in CA View Post
          Those "Y-caps" look like generic ceramic disc caps, maybe rated for 2KV, not safety agency approved parts.
          Yup. 1000 pF, 2 kV. No writing on them, so we can safely assume no Y2-rating.

          Originally posted by TechGeek View Post
          And a beeping smoke detector.
          I hate that noise!

          If I know I will be testing something that may blow up or produce smoke, I always take down the smoke detector in my room beforehand.

          Comment


            Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

            ...and wait for an electrical fire to start when you least need it to happen
            Don't buy those $10 PSU "specials". They fail, and they have taken whole computers with them.

            My computer doubles as a space heater.

            Permanently Retired Systems:
            RIP Advantech UNO-3072LA (2008-2021) - Decommissioned and taken out of service permanently due to lack of software support for it. Not very likely to ever be recommissioned again.
            Asus Q550LF (Old main laptop, 2014-2022) - Decommissioned and stripped due to a myriad of problems, the main battery bloating being the final nail in the coffin.


            Kooky and Kool Systems
            - 1996 Power Macintosh 7200/120 + PC Compatibility Card - Under Restoration
            - 1993 Gateway 2000 80486DX/50 - Fully Operational/WIP
            - 2004 Athlon 64 Retro Gaming System - Indefinitely Parked
            - Main Workstation - Fully operational!

            sigpic

            Comment


              Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

              Originally posted by TechGeek View Post
              ...and wait for an electrical fire to start when you least need it to happen
              I put the smoke detector back when I am done testing, so no.

              Comment


                Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                Originally posted by momaka View Post
                No regulation for -12V and -5V rails. Just 2x FR104 diodes > toroid inductor > filter cap > ATX wires. Oh, and big-ass loading resistors. I suppose that's your regulation right there!
                Yep. Without those pre-loads at light or no load the output caps would peak charge and the O/P voltages would go out of regulation high. And if the snubbers weren't carefully designed (Design? We don't need no steeenking design!) there would probably be considerable ringing in the voltage out of the rectifiers, meaning the peak-charged voltage could be really high.
                PeteS in CA

                Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                ****************************
                To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                ****************************
                Anti-Covid-Vaxxer pig crap claim/prediction, Doctor: Heart Failure from mRNA Jabs "Will Kill Most People" | Principia Scientific Intl. ; Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche Warns COVID-19 Jab Injuries and Deaths Will Soon "Collapse Our Health System" (VIDEO) ; Fully Vaxxed May 2021; Since that time I've done 13 5Ks, 1 8K, 12 10Ks, and 4 half marathons

                Comment


                  Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                  Originally posted by PeteS in CA View Post
                  And if the snubbers weren't carefully designed (Design? We don't need no steeenking design!) there would probably be considerable ringing in the voltage out of the rectifiers, meaning the peak-charged voltage could be really high.
                  I've seen something like that happen to a Deer (and surprisingly, a well-built Deer PSU), where the snubber ceramic cap on the 12V rail shorted and blew the resistor that was in series with it. The PSU appeared to work, but would occasionally shut down. Owner said his system was very unstable. I suppose this "ringing" is probably what caused the PC's instability.

                  Comment


                    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                    Originally posted by momaka View Post
                    I've seen something like that happen to a Deer (and surprisingly, a well-built Deer PSU), where the snubber ceramic cap on the 12V rail shorted and blew the resistor that was in series with it. The PSU appeared to work, but would occasionally shut down. Owner said his system was very unstable. I suppose this "ringing" is probably what caused the PC's instability.
                    Snubbers limit voltage stresses on rectifiers or switch devices. They also limit high frequency ringing, which can be unpredictably disruptive.

                    While not snubber networks, those little ferrite beads you sometimes see on MOSFET and rectifier leads also limit ringing by slowing down the turn on and turn of of the devices. This is usually done to reduce noise conducted from the PSU back into the AC line.
                    PeteS in CA

                    Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                    ****************************
                    To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                    ****************************
                    Anti-Covid-Vaxxer pig crap claim/prediction, Doctor: Heart Failure from mRNA Jabs "Will Kill Most People" | Principia Scientific Intl. ; Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche Warns COVID-19 Jab Injuries and Deaths Will Soon "Collapse Our Health System" (VIDEO) ; Fully Vaxxed May 2021; Since that time I've done 13 5Ks, 1 8K, 12 10Ks, and 4 half marathons

                    Comment


                      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                      Originally posted by PeteS in CA View Post
                      While not snubber networks, those little ferrite beads you sometimes see on MOSFET and rectifier leads also limit ringing by slowing down the turn on and turn of of the devices. This is usually done to reduce noise conducted from the PSU back into the AC line.
                      I've seen those on a few old Bestec and Lite-On PSUs. The funny part is the beads were held with that conductive tan/brown glue . EMI/RFI noise on the line surely wouldn't have been a problem at all when that glue went conductive and shorted out the leads (after all, a dead PSU produces no EMI/RFI. ) Looks like I caught many of them on time, so I was able to remove the glue before it got bad. Left the beads alone to just dangle around on the legs.
                      From what I measured, they weren't conducting between the leads of the parts, even when they were touching.

                      Comment


                        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                        Originally posted by momaka View Post
                        ... (after all, a dead PSU produces no EMI/RFI. ) ...
                        Sounds Disney-esque: "Dead men tell no tales!"
                        PeteS in CA

                        Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                        ****************************
                        To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                        ****************************
                        Anti-Covid-Vaxxer pig crap claim/prediction, Doctor: Heart Failure from mRNA Jabs "Will Kill Most People" | Principia Scientific Intl. ; Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche Warns COVID-19 Jab Injuries and Deaths Will Soon "Collapse Our Health System" (VIDEO) ; Fully Vaxxed May 2021; Since that time I've done 13 5Ks, 1 8K, 12 10Ks, and 4 half marathons

                        Comment


                          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                          Got something which I think fits well in this thread. Notice anything wrong on this XBOX one power brick board here ? I'll give you a hint: REVERSED ! Wait, it gets better: this power brick didn't show any signs of previous servicing, since the solder job looked factory-made, which makes me 99% sure it came like that from the factory ! Has anyone heard of something like this before ? :| It was such an easy fix it was positively brilliant and the added "stupidity" of the fault further added to the satisfaction I got in the end
                          Attached Files
                          Wattevah...

                          Comment


                            Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                            Originally posted by Dannyx View Post
                            Got something which I think fits well in this thread. Notice anything wrong on this XBOX one power brick board here ? I'll give you a hint: REVERSED ! Wait, it gets better: this power brick didn't show any signs of previous servicing, since the solder job looked factory-made, which makes me 99% sure it came like that from the factory ! Has anyone heard of something like this before ?
                            Wow, someone at the factory screwed up big time here. And this is a Chicony (HiPro) PSU! Their quality and QC is really good, typically. It would be a shame to see them go downhill. I hope they aren't.

                            Now imagine if this is a widespread problem and there are hundreds of people throwing away their Xbox Ones because of this - that would be silly, actually.

                            Thanks for sharing. Let's hope yours was just an isolated incident and not a widespread problem. That would be great for repair businesses, but terrible for the environment, considering how many Xboxes can get thrown out because of this.
                            Last edited by momaka; 11-16-2016, 06:41 PM.

                            Comment


                              Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                              Originally posted by momaka View Post
                              Wow, someone at the factory screwed up big time here. And this is a Chicony (HiPro) PSU! Their quality and QC is really good, typically. It would be a shame to see them go downhill. I hope they aren't.

                              Now imagine if this is a widespread problem and there are hundreds of people throwing away their Xbox Ones because of this - that would be silly, actually.

                              Thanks for sharing. Let's hope yours was just an isolated incident and not a widespread problem. That would be great for repair businesses, but terrible for the environment, considering how many Xboxes can get thrown out because of this.
                              I see a late 2010 ("1051") datecode on that TNY276 "Tiny Switch" PWM IC. That would more likely be a Xbox 360 PSU as the Xbox One went into production in late 2013 (although it could be an Xbox One PSU if they were using 3+ year old components...). When you're producing millions of units at a time, it's possible to make mistakes like this. Chicony and Hipro also have a love affair with Teapo which I simply can't support.

                              I spy a Samxon GF or GK and a large load reistor in the background (and if I'm deciphering the colors of the bands correctly, it looks like it's a tad underspec'd). The notion of using Samxon GF/GK or Ltec (right next to a freestanding diode), in a hot power brick (even though it has a tiny fan), makes me cringe.
                              Last edited by Wester547; 11-16-2016, 07:44 PM.

                              Comment


                                Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                I had a 2008 FSP 500W that did well, even with Teapo caps, no sign of them failing as far as I can tell. Was powering a Sabertooth 990 FX R 2.0 and FX Vishera 8350 (made in 2014, so a late batch) this year!
                                Still no sign of problems when I last saw it in 2016!

                                I gave the system away. I miss it...

                                Just got the Sabertooth 990 FX R 2.0 on July, 2015 and installed on August 25, 2015... And 16 GB of G.Skill RipJaws DDR3 in December, 2015... Got the FX 8350 on September 8, 2014...
                                Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 11-16-2016, 08:27 PM.
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