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  • coreAngel
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 124
    • United States

    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

    Originally posted by ben7 View Post
    It looks good to me. I dunno if it can do 200W, but the quality looks good from what I can tell. Except for the cheap caps of course.
    It's hard to tell how well it might work. Just because the heatsinks may be smaller than usual, doesn't mean that the power supply is improperly designed. If efficient enough, it doesn't need huge heatsinks.
    Since it's only 200 watts i don't believe it should require much as i don't think what i have in store for it will exceed 150 watts, i would recap but i dont know if it is worth it

    Now about the AC adapter for my laptop, the fets that one is not properly attached both have all of the info scratched off the surface, now that really confused me...
    Last edited by coreAngel; 12-15-2015, 09:21 PM.
    Yes i love Nichicon MUSE Audio Capacitors...they would look awesome all over any motherboard

    Comment

    • ben7
      Capaholic
      • Jan 2011
      • 4059
      • USA

      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

      Originally posted by coreAngel View Post
      Now about the AC adapter for my laptop, the fets that one is not properly attached both have all of the info scratched off the surface, now that really confused me...
      Awww, shame shame shame!

      That's typical of the chinese. They seem to do that so nobody will be able to copy their product down to the exact component...

      -Ben
      Muh-soggy-knee

      Comment

      • momaka
        master hoarder
        • May 2008
        • 11943
        • U.S.A.

        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

        Originally posted by coreAngel View Post
        i was thinking is the HEC psu worth it as it's maximum power output is 200 watts.
        ...
        Should i toss it? can i actually use this PSU or switch to another brand?
        It may only be a 200 Watt power supply, but if it really can do 14 Amps on the 12 V rail, that is plenty for something like a Core 2 Duo, low-end C2Q, or any other CPU under 95 Watts TDP and 150 Watts max. Just check what rectifier that PSU has. If it's a STF topology with a 20 A rectifier for the 12 V rail, it will do 14 A no problem.

        Originally posted by ben7 View Post
        But ... 88C on the outside case is not acceptable! You might not be able to boil water on it under regular conditions, but you still could get a serious burn from it! Wow!
        Fixed that for you
        Anything above 60C will damage your skin tissue (i.e. scalding) very quickly.
        Me thinks that IR laser thermometer is not measuring the case temperature correctly, though. I've used IR laser thermometers, and I can tell you that they are very picky about the distance at which you measure the temperature on an object. Also, they are not that good when it comes to objects with even slightly reflective surfaces. Thus, I much prefer type-K thermocouples.

        Originally posted by ben7
        They seem to do that so nobody will be able to copy their product down to the exact component...
        More like they are using factory rejects from who knows what manufacturer. They remove the name so no one can track back to the factory where the part came from. This protects the reject part market. And also prevents curious thinkers (like us) to see how underrated the actual part may be, even if it wasn't a reject. And no one can copy the design, like you noted. Not that anyone should want to, anyways.

        That "flying" MOSFET already hints more than enough how bad this adapter is.
        Last edited by momaka; 12-15-2015, 10:52 PM.

        Comment

        • goodpsusearch
          Badcaps Veteran
          • Oct 2009
          • 2834
          • Greece

          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

          This thing makes my AC adapter Hantol look like Premium quality product. Seriously what the fuck?

          Comment

          • coreAngel
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2014
            • 124
            • United States

            Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

            Originally posted by momaka View Post
            It may only be a 200 Watt power supply, but if it really can do 14 Amps on the 12 V rail, that is plenty for something like a Core 2 Duo, low-end C2Q, or any other CPU under 95 Watts TDP and 150 Watts max. Just check what rectifier that PSU has. If it's a STF topology with a 20 A rectifier for the 12 V rail, it will do 14 A no problem.
            Hi Momaka great to see you again here unfortunately im not very good at reading datasheets for transistors etc, i can read some caps ones but not this i can't make heads or tails of it here is the rundown of chips

            Input filtering

            4 y caps
            2 x caps
            2 coils
            1 mov

            8AMP Vishay GBU8J Brid.Rec. non-heatsinked

            in the input side (alert)

            p4nk607fp x2
            IC36AK

            output *9000

            STPS2045CT
            CSC2486

            welltrend chip

            and all wires are 20 awg but considering the low wattage ill let it pass

            so any advice
            Yes i love Nichicon MUSE Audio Capacitors...they would look awesome all over any motherboard

            Comment

            • momaka
              master hoarder
              • May 2008
              • 11943
              • U.S.A.

              Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

              Originally posted by coreAngel View Post
              so any advice
              It's got full input filtering and an 8 A bridge rectifier, so they *likely* didn't skimp on the secondary too much either.

              The two "p4nk607fp" are likely STP4NK60ZFP MOSFETs (one for APFC and one for main switch?)

              "IC36AK" is probably an ICE3A -series off-line SMPS current mode PWM-FET. Depending on which model it is, it can be either for the 5 VSB or for the main supply (these chips can supposedly deliver up to 240 Watts ).

              "STPS2045CT" is exactly that - a 20 A, 45 V schottky rectifier. Could be on either 3.3V, 5V, or 12V rails.

              "CSC2486" might be a 2SC2486 MOSFET. But with only 12 A peak current and 120 V_ceo ratings, I'm not sure what the purpose of this would be in a PSU.

              The 20 AWG wires shouldn't be too much of a problem if they are short and since this is only a 200 Watt unit. The Delta Electronics PSU that came with my Gateway GT5656 PC is rated for 300 Watts and still uses nothing but 20 AWG wires.

              So all in all, I think it is an okay PSU for its rating.

              Comment

              • coreAngel
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2014
                • 124
                • United States

                Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                It was suggested i add this crap of a PSU here i posted somewhere else here goes:

                Hello everyone, boy do i have a treat for you guys and gals too today. I went to the computer store liquidation sale and managed to snag a Diablotek PSU that was sitting in their storeroom for almost 4 years. I snagged it for 2 dollars.I won't pay more for this kind of crap.

                It's a Diablotek 350 watt psu with 2 fans and it reminded me of a same brand psu i had in the past (more on that later) it says in the box 350 watts

                NOOOO Input Filters at all( so that was that hum around my house was when i plugged it in)
                4 Diode Treatment
                LCZ main craps
                BH craps the rest
                Bao DI Crap Fan

                It has all ST and Fairchild chips ( i can't believe these brands are in there)

                Now about why this reminded me about a previous PSU, i used to frequent this store back in 2001 when i had my first pc an Emachines etower 667ir ,I wanted to upgrade memory ,cd drives etc, and i decided i needed a better power supply (2003) yeah boy was i a noob , i purchased a diablotek 350 watt micro atx psu since it was so small, i thought this was great ( i wish i had joined this site long ago) maybe it's better quality? i only used the power supply for a total of three months then decided to build a new pc.

                I tossed the PC in the closet and forgot about it, more than a year ago doing cleanup i decided to take a look at that PSU it had the same layout but had G luxon all caps and none were bulged, it had a sort of full input filtering minus a x cap and looked beefy enough to me at the time maybe i was wrong what really caught my eye was at the corner of the PSU board it said : "ENGSMPL" and thought of nothing else at the time so i guessed it wasn't a final version? how did it end up in my hands? but i didn't need the computer as its motherboard went bad. and turned it over to a recycler , which i wish i never did, so diablotek maybe good in the past , wtf now....

                sorry for such a long post
                Attached Files
                Yes i love Nichicon MUSE Audio Capacitors...they would look awesome all over any motherboard

                Comment

                • ratdude747
                  Black Sheep
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 17129
                  • USA

                  Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                  I think I have a candidate for the worst power supply (relative to "rated" wattage). Ok, maybe not as bad as an A-Power or Echo Star (or powmax), but it's pretty crap in every aspect.

                  We have a dead Okia 550W unit, seems to be a 5VSB issue.

                  First, the sticker and external overview:







                  Look at that thin wire... it feels as cheap as it looks.

                  Found some casing damage, which looks factory (the warranty sticker was intact):



                  That is thin metal indeed. The 12V connectors are fouled up too:



                  They gave a 4 pin and a split 4/8pin? Why??? ... I guess they gave a second plug in case the thin wire fries on the first... but wait, it's a 5V heavy old design! Now I'm really confused...

                  Cover off, here's what is seen:



                  Looks pretty crap from here. This is a destructive teardown, as this junker is too light to be used as a door stop . A 250W hipro was much, much heavier.

                  Anyway, a look at the primary, those with weak stomachs need to look away now



                  First, nothing is soldered straight. Tilted left, tilted right, it resembles a novice solderer's first project, not a production product. Also, the primary is very stripped out; the two choke locations are jumpered away, the X caps are gone, and the Y caps are swapped for cheesy looking ceramics. Oh, and the primary caps are an accident waiting to happen. Looking at this alternate angle...



                  ... one can see why the one cap was butting the heatsink (Short hazard?). These are not the usual rivited tab primary caps quality units use, these are leaded wannabes that one of which wasn't trimmed. The assembler must have left it 1/2" off the board, realized it wouldn't fit, and twisted it down rather than re-heat the joints and push the cap the rest of the way down. Then again, they cut corners everywhere else; it already was a circle.

                  Speaking of tilted components... look at this shot of the gutless primary:



                  Even the jumper links on the choke silkscreens are tilted! This even makes powmax look good!

                  Before I jump to the silicon and the secondary, here's the fan that was installed:



                  No brand, just bling. I assume those are blue LEDs. Felt like a not-yet-seized sleeve bearing. :trashacan:

                  Here's the wimpy silicon, to match the scrawny thin heatsinks:



                  The secondary has a surprise...



                  ... PI coils! After all the junk they cheaped out on, they actually put in coils. The caps are still tiny, though.

                  Here's the fried 5VSB:



                  Looks like a 2 transistor job, complete with failed cap. Didn't kill any motherboards, though. Wouldn't spin up, though. 5VSB was completely dead.

                  Not that the other joints were that good to begin with.


                  What a turd. 550W my ass. Not even 200 probably. The only quality parts were of all things PI coils... otherwise, it was as gutless as gutless could ever be.
                  Attached Files
                  sigpic

                  (Insert witty quote here)

                  Comment

                  • Behemot
                    Badcaps Veteran
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 4863
                    • CZ

                    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                    Yeah…they made such units with 13009 and 135mm fan under different brands, those could most likely do about 400-450 W, but this is about 300-350 and who knows how little in spec…
                    Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                    Exclusive caps, meters and more!
                    Hardware Insights - power supply reviews and more!

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                    • Stefan Payne
                      Badcaps Veteran
                      • Dec 2009
                      • 1267
                      • Germany

                      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                      Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                      What a turd. 550W my ass. Not even 200 probably. The only quality parts were of all things PI coils... otherwise, it was as gutless as gutless could ever be.
                      The sad thing is that system integrators want this overlabeled bullshit...
                      That's what I heard from the industry...

                      Comment

                      • ben7
                        Capaholic
                        • Jan 2011
                        • 4059
                        • USA

                        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                        Heh, it's not the worst though. The worst ones use 1A or 2A diodes for the mains rectification, and the "two diode treatment" on the secondary for the 12V XD

                        But yeah, the build quality is really poor!

                        You could give it a 5vsb mod and some better caps, and it might be a halfway decent supply. Not 550W, maybe like 300 or 350W max? The transformer is a bit small for 550W, but then again, it depends on the circuit design as well.
                        (Smaller transformers for higher frequency?)

                        -Ben
                        Muh-soggy-knee

                        Comment

                        • goodpsusearch
                          Badcaps Veteran
                          • Oct 2009
                          • 2834
                          • Greece

                          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                          250watt max

                          Comment

                          • mariushm
                            Badcaps Veteran
                            • May 2011
                            • 3799

                            Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                            @ratdude747 ... off topic but still.. I wish you'd stop inlining so many pictures at such high resolution and size... they're about 1 MB each and it takes more than 10 minutes for this site to load them...
                            It's not my connection (I have 500/25), it's just the server being crappy.

                            Use something like Irfanview, go in Batch conversion/resize and resize all pictures to 1024x ** and use jpg 80% quality, you'll get each picture under 300-350 KB without noticeable loss in quality.
                            You can always zip all pictures at high res and link to them at the bottom.

                            Comment

                            • ratdude747
                              Black Sheep
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 17129
                              • USA

                              Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                              I thought I had my camera set to 2mb mode... Whoops. Too late to fix it w/o mod powers. Yeah, the pics are a bit large.

                              As for the unit, its been scrapped. I don't have time to deal with this junk...
                              sigpic

                              (Insert witty quote here)

                              Comment

                              • momaka
                                master hoarder
                                • May 2008
                                • 11943
                                • U.S.A.

                                Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                Look at that thin wire... it feels as cheap as it looks.
                                20 AWG, I am guessing. Yeah, pretty dissapointing to see that. But then again, the 300 Watt Delta DPS-300AB-15B that came with my Gateway GT5656 also uses 20 AWG wire on all connectors. I'm not happy about it, but I guess it works?

                                Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                That is thin metal indeed. The 12V connectors are fouled up too:
                                ...
                                They gave a 4 pin and a split 4/8pin? Why??? ... I guess they gave a second plug in case the thin wire fries on the first...
                                Maybe one of them is intended as an 8-pin PCI-E power connector for a graphics card?

                                Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                This is a destructive teardown, as this junker is too light to be used as a door stop .
                                Well, I hope you still save it for parts, though.

                                Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                Oh, and the primary caps are an accident waiting to happen. Looking at this alternate angle...
                                ... one can see why the one cap was butting the heatsink (Short hazard?).
                                Yup, that could be a short-circuit hazard indeed. It really depends, though, if the heatsink is tied to negative or positive side on the voltage doubler and if the capacitor can is internally connected to negative or positive leg (and also if the cap has a plastic sleeve on top).
                                I just got shocked the other day while charging a small 22 uF 250 V cap by accidentally touching the positive lead and exposed aluminum on the capacitor can at the same time. Fun times!

                                Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                Even the jumper links on the choke silkscreens are tilted! This even makes powmax look good!
                                Reminds me of my Raidmax RX-380K (Sun Pro KY-480ATX), also posted here. It was the same thing with that one. At least you get a large 120 mm LED fan.

                                Speaking of which...
                                Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                Before I jump to the silicon and the secondary, here's the fan that was installed:
                                ...
                                No brand, just bling. I assume those are blue LEDs. Felt like a not-yet-seized sleeve bearing. :trashacan:
                                No, don't trash it!
                                Even cheap fans can last a very long time if the sleeve bearings are properly cleaned and lubricated. I have a few cheap fans that I fixed a while back, and they actually managed to last longer than a Delta ball bearing fan I fixed around the same time.

                                Originally posted by ratdude747 View Post
                                Then again, they cut corners everywhere else; it already was a circle.

                                That comment made my day!

                                Originally posted by ben7 View Post
                                But yeah, the build quality is really poor!
                                I agree.
                                I think the parts used in this PSU are not that bad, but the way the PSU was assembled is just terrible. Maybe whoever was in control of the conveyor speed for the assembly line accidentally bumped the knob to "high speed" and then the workers tried to compensate by installing everything quickly?

                                Originally posted by ben7 View Post
                                The transformer is a bit small for 550W, but then again, it depends on the circuit design as well.
                                (Smaller transformers for higher frequency?)
                                Higher frequency??? With a cheap half-bridge design from three decades ago based on the KA7500/TL494 PWM ICs???
                                - No way, Jose. Not a chance!

                                You can bet the transformer uses only a few tricker strands of wire inside vs. more strands of finer wire. So I'd say you are looking at 250 Watts max, 300 Watts peak. And that'd be "raw" power, unless the input and output caps are sized properly too.
                                Last edited by momaka; 12-27-2015, 10:04 PM.

                                Comment

                                • Wester547
                                  -
                                  • Nov 2011
                                  • 1268
                                  • USA.

                                  Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                  No, don't trash it!
                                  Even cheap fans can last a very long time if the sleeve bearings are properly cleaned and lubricated. I have a few cheap fans that I fixed a while back, and they actually managed to last longer than a Delta ball bearing fan I fixed around the same time.
                                  What was wrong with the double ball bearing Delta fan? Were the ball races worn? Did it need to be greased? And I noticed ratdude's gutless unit employs the dreaded conductive glue which is already blackening from the heat. I really hate that stuff.

                                  Comment

                                  • everell
                                    Badcaps Veteran
                                    • Jan 2009
                                    • 1514
                                    • USA

                                    Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                    Originally posted by momaka View Post
                                    Higher frequency??? With a cheap half-bridge design from three decades ago based on the KA7500/TL494 PWM ICs???
                                    - No way, Jose. Not a chance!
                                    Are you sure that pwm chip is KA7500/TL494? Looks to me more like a EST7502. Perhaps I am wrong......maybe Ratdude will take a look and tell us what that pwm chip is. Also I am curious as to what switching transistors it is using.

                                    Looks to me to be about the same as the IMicro/Coolmax/Logisys power supplies claiming to be 400 whats!

                                    The load resistors for the pwm chip outputs look burnt. Wouldn't surprise me if the switching transistors were shorted, the driver transistors shorted, and the pwm chip smoked.

                                    I have a OKIA 500 watt power supply which makes this one look like a jewel. Three quarter sized pc board, smaller case, and stuck fan don't help put the power out either.
                                    Old proverb say.........If you shoot at nothing, you will hit nothing (George Henry 10-14-11)

                                    Comment

                                    • momaka
                                      master hoarder
                                      • May 2008
                                      • 11943
                                      • U.S.A.

                                      Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                      Originally posted by Wester547 View Post
                                      What was wrong with the double ball bearing Delta fan?
                                      Bearings are getting old and loose. Need to be oiled (again). They are sealed, so I can't grease them. Once they warm up, the fan gets very noisy and barely runs.

                                      Originally posted by everell
                                      Are you sure that pwm chip is KA7500/TL494?
                                      No.
                                      I just said that because most secondary-side PC PSU controllers that are used for half-bridges (like SG6105, AT2005B, and ATX2005) are pretty much just a variation of the KA7500/TL494. They may have more/extra functions, but their Oscillator running frequency is usually about the same (typically in the range of 50-70 KHz, which in H-bridge topology translates to 25-35 KHz square waves at the output).

                                      Comment

                                      • RJARRRPCGP
                                        Badcaps Veteran
                                        • Jul 2004
                                        • 6257
                                        • USA

                                        Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                        Originally posted by momaka View Post
                                        It may only be a 200 Watt power supply, but if it really can do 14 Amps on the 12 V rail, that is plenty for something like a Core 2 Duo, low-end C2Q
                                        A Core 2 Quad, OTOH, exponentially goes up in watts when OC'ed, 250 W easily for the processor alone at 3.3!

                                        Easily like an OC'ed FX, if not more! In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a 65 nm Quad makes my FX look like a green freak! LOL!

                                        The OC expert folks say 250 W+ easily for CPU alone with 1.4 V Vcore at only 3.3. So, that would easily mean at least a 350 W PSU, if not a 400 W PSU. (And that's with a video card that don't use a power plug, such as a GeForce GT 640 and GeForce GTX 750)
                                        Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 12-31-2015, 04:35 PM.
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                                        "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                                        "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                                        "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                                        "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

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                                        • Behemot
                                          Badcaps Veteran
                                          • Dec 2009
                                          • 4863
                                          • CZ

                                          Re: the gutless, bloated, and fried power supply hall of shame

                                          Eh, 250 W? ROFLMAO. Maybe 150 W max under water. With VRM waste power say 170 W. Even Bulldozer is difficult to cool down over 150 W. The C2Q core is small, not to mention at 150+ A the traces themselves would melt.

                                          You don't have to believe every PoS you hear from amateurs who do not even know what wattmeter is, let alone current meter or voltmeter.
                                          Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                                          Exclusive caps, meters and more!
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