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A "nice" YoungYear unit?

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    #31
    Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

    Originally posted by momaka View Post
    No.
    Usually 80-100V is where they may start to drop out of regulation.
    Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if my UPS clicks in to battery mode already at that point, especially my brand new CyberPower UPS that I got. I set it to the most sensitive setting.
    ASRock B550 PG Velocita

    Ryzen 7 "Vermeer" 5800X

    16 GB AData XPG Spectrix D41

    Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6750 XT

    eVGA Supernova G3 750W

    Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD




    "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

    "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

    "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

    "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

    Comment


      #32
      Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

      Luckily, i live in the Netherlands. We rarely have brownouts here. Mostly it is normal power or no power. But brownouts are very rare out here. It's running happy and hot, i just hope it will stay that way. Although the primary caps are still the original Capxon 470uF ones, which probably are 330uF in reality since they look too small to be 470uF.

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        #33
        Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

        Originally posted by bauto601 View Post
        Although the primary caps are still the original Capxon 470uF ones, which probably are 330uF in reality since they look too small to be 470uF.
        You got only 470 uF primary caps in that PSU? Ouch! I'd say the PSU is then built more like a 250 Watt unit (though I think we established that already. ). Maybe 200 Watt, if the primary caps do measure closer to 330 uF... though CapXon primary caps typically do measure what is printed on their label. The bigger question for CapXon is: when will they fail?

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          #34
          Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

          Originally posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
          (And of course, the DDR2 SDRAM that was probably slower than DDR1, LOL)
          I think I likely saw that variant of DDR2 SDRAM on a 2006 system, LOL!
          ASRock B550 PG Velocita

          Ryzen 7 "Vermeer" 5800X

          16 GB AData XPG Spectrix D41

          Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6750 XT

          eVGA Supernova G3 750W

          Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD




          "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

          "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

          "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

          "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

          Comment


            #35
            Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

            Originally posted by momaka View Post
            You got only 470 uF primary caps in that PSU? Ouch! I'd say the PSU is then built more like a 250 Watt unit (though I think we established that already. ). Maybe 200 Watt, if the primary caps do measure closer to 330 uF... though CapXon primary caps typically do measure what is printed on their label. The bigger question for CapXon is: when will they fail?
            Yeah, the PSU definately is a 250W unit at it's peak. The PFC coil (which is real, checked that) shows proudly 250W. Altough i wouldn't be that proud on such a number. It really is a scaled down model with all the cost and size cutting measures. I wanted to replace to primary caps too, but i could only find 330uF caps that had the same size. They are 105c rated and since primary caps aren't that prone to fail, i just left them sitting there.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

              Originally posted by bauto601 View Post
              They are 105c rated and since primary caps aren't that prone to fail, i just left them sitting there.
              Yeah, that's true - primary caps don't fail often in ATX PSUs with PPFC and no PFC. For APFC units, though... I'd be worried. Also, I've seen a few primary-side CapXon caps fail in hot LCD monitors. Otherwise, I myself have several "old-style" ATX PSUs without APFC and CapXon caps. So far, they are still holding up okay, it seems.

              Comment


                #37
                Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                Well, the PSU still works, didn't have any stability problems. The system has been upgraded a month ago with an additional 1TB SSD and a GTX 1650 Super.

                After this upgrade, the 3.3V rail dropped with around 0.05V, which is good in this case. After playing BeamNG for an hour (which is very heavy on the CPU and GPU) the PSU did get quite hot and the system started to turn on and off really quickly. After unplugging it and plugging it in again it works fine.

                I think that could have been the over temperature protection, since the 80mm fan doesn't really move much air and as a result it's cooking itself. So i removed the OC on the CPU and now i hope it won't give any problems during the summer. Also added some pictures to show the casemod.
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                  Thanks for sharing pictures of your work. Looks really good and great to hear it's still running well.

                  I guess this shows that even an older half-bridge PSU can be useful once recapped with good caps and a few mods done to it.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                    Originally posted by momaka View Post
                    Thanks for sharing pictures of your work. Looks really good and great to hear it's still running well.

                    I guess this shows that even an older half-bridge PSU can be useful once recapped with good caps and a few mods done to it.
                    Yup, it's still quite useful for low power pc's. But the voltage regulation is not that great from my experience and as seen in the JG review. Modding the fan speed controller for a more agressive fan curve and modifying the mag-amp circuit for the somewhat high 3.3V rail will make it as good as it will get. The system is running stable though, which in the end is all a power supply needs to do.
                    The other shallow PSU i modded and posted in the gutless thread is going to replace it. (after a nice repaint) That one runs much cooler, has much better voltage regulation and is capable of delivering way more power.

                    This PC pulls about ~220W max from the socket. Assuming 75% efficiency (only because of the 230V here, in the JG review the efficiency was more around the 70% mark) the PC needs about 165 watts, which seems about right. That will be an easy job for the new modded unit since i already pulled 220W alone from the 12V rail while testing it.
                    Last edited by bauto601; 05-22-2020, 12:26 PM.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                      Just a small update on this PSU project It's still chugging along nicely. The CPU has recently been replaced with a Ryzen 5500 with a small oc to 4.5GHz boost and the ram had some headroom as well, from 2666C16 all the way to 3600C16, not bad for early DDR4 memory. The current system configuration:

                      - AMD Ryzen 5500 @4.5GHz Boost
                      - Cooler Master ML120L RGB AIO CPU Cooler
                      - 16GB DDR4 2666C16 @3600C16
                      - Asrock B450M Pro4
                      - 1TB SSD + 256GB SSD
                      - Geforce GTX1650 Super 4GB
                      - Some additional RGB lighting


                      In the summer during longer gaming sesssion the case temp can read up to ~46 degrees right where the intake is of the power supply so i really can't fault it for it's performance and reliability up to this day. Still haven't gotten around to replace it with the other PSU that i prepared for this build a couple of years ago.

                      In the meantime i had a Cooler Master MWE White 450W fail on me after a year in a relatively low-power file server. It was a really weird failure where the PCB had a burn mark on quite a thick 240v input trace without any further damage to be seen. And the circuit breaker tripped. It was always connected to an APC UPS so it should've had an easy life. Sometimes luck needs to be on your side i guess.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                        Cool project! Thanks for sharing. I always liked how YoungYear use a good sized main transformer and large input caps. I've seen them use ERL-40 and even ERL-42 in some Ultra units if I remember correctly. I never liked the heatsinks they used though. Very thick but not a lot of small fins to help dissipate heat, especially with a slow spinning fan. I bet that is contributing to the heat some!

                        The 3.3V rail shouldn't increase or decrease too much - it is independently regulated with a mag-amp circuit from the 5V rail.
                        Maybe I'm just rusty here, but how is the 3.3V independently regulated here? It looks like there is only one output toroid and it looks jumpered where the 3.3V mag-amp coils should be. Wouldn't that explain the high voltage since the load would be lowest on this rail?

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                          Originally posted by Pentium4 View Post
                          Maybe I'm just rusty here, but how is the 3.3V independently regulated here? It looks like there is only one output toroid and it looks jumpered where the 3.3V mag-amp coils should be. Wouldn't that explain the high voltage since the load would be lowest on this rail?
                          No, you are 100% correct here.
                          Seems I have overlooked the pictures posted in this thread and assumed the unit was very similar to my two YoungYear PSUs, both of which have mag-amp -regulated 3.3V rails.

                          If there is no MOSFET to regulate the 3.3V rail voltage down from the 5V rail, then this would indeed explain the 3.3V rail being so high. But why would YY do this in such a high power PSU (well, relatively speaking) is beyond explanation then.

                          Either way, also great to see the O/P come back and report that the PSU is still running well. Goes to show that even old units can be used with new systems just fine. A lot of modern reviews go into too many details about voltage spikes and overload test now, yet neglect to mention the importance of good electrolytic caps, both for the APFC and the output.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                            Originally posted by momaka View Post
                            No, you are 100% correct here.
                            Seems I have overlooked the pictures posted in this thread and assumed the unit was very similar to my two YoungYear PSUs, both of which have mag-amp -regulated 3.3V rails.

                            If there is no MOSFET to regulate the 3.3V rail voltage down from the 5V rail, then this would indeed explain the 3.3V rail being so high. But why would YY do this in such a high power PSU (well, relatively speaking) is beyond explanation then.

                            Either way, also great to see the O/P come back and report that the PSU is still running well. Goes to show that even old units can be used with new systems just fine. A lot of modern reviews go into too many details about voltage spikes and overload test now, yet neglect to mention the importance of good electrolytic caps, both for the APFC and the output.
                            The system seems to do fine with the somewhat high 3.3v rail voltage, so it's no biggie that it's part of the group regulation and can't be modded. I really think that the Panasonic output caps and the upgraded 12V rectifier are holding it together when it's running this hot. During some BeamNG drive today, the case temp reached 50 degrees celcius at the inlet of the psu. I've got a temperature probe located around that region, it's right above the GPU cooler.

                            One thing i've forgot to mention is the 50Hz hum this PSU got. It's noticeable when the pc is idle, but during a heavy load the hum really becomes as loud or even a tad louder than the fan noise. Even more so when the PSU is heated up. Always had this weird hum, didn't get worse either. It's actually kinda funny to hear the hum go when the PC is loading a game or something like that. And weirdly enough the brain starts to remember the different kind of 50hz humming patterns when starting programs. I know exactly when the desktop is about to pop up when booting up windows, or when the BeamNG loading screen is about to end while loading a map

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                              50/60 Hz line hum from an ATX PSU is never a good thing. Check both primary caps for proper capacitance and ESR. One or both might be bad. If that's the case, that's where you'll be seeing the line hum from. If they are OK, though, then it might be one of the common-mode chokes on the input... though I personally have never seen one go bad and make a hum.

                              Yeah, I know what you mean about the PC making specific noises and remembering them. I have a PIII Dell laptop like that - has a ton of coil / CPU VRM audible switching noise. I can easily tell when Windows is loading, when a USB stick is inserted and if it's being read or written to, or when my browser (New Moon) is stuck on a script on a web page and likely won't get unstuck anytime soon.
                              Last edited by momaka; 08-19-2023, 01:56 AM.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: A "nice" YoungYear unit?

                                Originally posted by momaka View Post
                                50/60 Hz line hum from an ATX PSU is never a good thing. Check both primary caps for proper capacitance and ESR. One or both might be bad. If that's the case, that's where you'll be seeing the line hum from. If they are OK, though, then it might be one of the common-mode chokes on the input... though I personally have never seen one go bad and make a hum.

                                Yeah, I know what you mean about the PC making specific noises and remembering them. I have a PIII Dell laptop like that - has a ton of coil / CPU VRM audible switching noise. I can easily tell when Windows is loading, when a USB stick is inserted and if it's being read or written to, or when my browser (New Moon) is stuck on a script on a web page and likely won't get unstuck anytime soon.
                                If one of the primary caps was already bad a few years ago it's lasting for quite some time now despite of that. Once a cap starts to degrade it goes quite fast right? Could it be the passive PFC choke instead that's making these noises?

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