Are any of these psu's worthy?

[socketa]

looking through 'my' PSU's for something half decent - without the old 2-transistor, motherboard-killer, technology
separate 3v rail (rather than combined with the 5v rail)
and perhaps some fan speed regulation

would any of these be a possible candidate?:

1. Channel Well: (probably don't need to provide any more info for that)

2. ISO-500PP: "fuse rating:5A,250v~(+3.3 & +5V =220W Max) - does that mean that the 3.3V is fed off the 5v rail?

3. Prosource 400EPNC12: has the word "combined" for the 3.3v and 5v written on it

4. Delta electronics GPS400AB "asus certified PSU": with mostly capxons, vent and ltec,
two slightly bulged caps (16v 1500uf capxon, and the 16v 1000uf ltec )
the fan is 12cm but spins very slowly slowly - is that normal?

5. FSP Group FSP250-60PNA-E 250W:
the only caps i can read are the 2 big teapos and a jamicon,

6. Hyena DR-B300ATX 300W:
has no bulging caps - they all look nice and flat

if not,
would either of these fit the criteria, and be worth purchasing?:

7. HIPRO ATX PSU 250W
8. Cooler Master Extreme Power Plus 460W

have gone through the harwaresecrets - anatomy of a psu, so now have some basic familiarity with the circuit board layout/component function

what technology replaced the 2-transistor 5vsb?
and are these two transistors easily identifiable on the board?
then i can have a look on all of the boards, for myself.

[Wester547]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

What series is the failed LTEC in the Delta? LTG (chocolate brown) or LZG (blue) ? The slow spinning fan probably killed the LTEC and CapXon.... but knowing CapXon they would fail regardless. The fan probably spins slow because it's 120mm, like you said. :P However, if the fan happens to be manufactured by T&T then it might be failing and you may need to oil it. Not that I'd be comfortable with a fan spinning that slow. I'd say the Hipro and Delta are worthy with a recap. PWM chips tended to replace two-transistor +5VSB circuits. "Two transistor" +5VSB means that +5VSB is generated by a transistor and that it's probably somewhat close to the main switcher located on the primary heatsink.

[mariushm]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

1. channel well ... channel well tech (cwt) is an oem manufacturer, mostly makes power supplies for others. They make good psus, they make less good psus, depends what the company orders from them.
Too little information to tell you if it's good or bad.
tip: you can recognize power supplies made by cwt by them having transformers with dark green tape on them. They like that green tape.

2 & 3. no clue

4. Delta is oem like cwt or fortron source (fsp). Is among the better oems and their designs are generally good to very good but they compromise in some cases as with that power supply, using capxon and less quality capacitors (like ltec).

5. fsp is decent oem, does psus for others but also sells under own brands fortron or fsp group or "fortron source". Should be OK model but wattage is a bit on low side. I'd say ok with recap if the caps are slow.

6. no clue

7. depends on design

8. cooler master is "polarizing", they buy from various oems and have some very good power supplies, but also had some horrible power supplies. Lately, they're making an effort, they're shifting to higher quality designs and better oems.
But I can't tell you exactly who made it and how good it is based on just what you tell me.

Extra tips 1: This is a HUGE database of psu reviews along with info about who's the oem and so on: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page541.htm

Extra tip 2: Most power supply should have a UL code that starts with E on them, you can use that in some cases to figure out who made them .. see http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/370

but sometimes the company buys from oem a design and sends the psu to certification using their own UL number so the number in that case is pointless.

[dmill89]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

1. As others said CWT makes some good stuff and they make some junk to, hard to say either way without additional details.
2. ISO is generally a low-end CWT unit often sold with cases. These can be decent designs or not, either way expect garbage caps in a low to mid grade CWT unit.
3. no clue
4. Delta generally makes good units but uses some "seccond-tier" caps in some of its lower end models, it will probably be a decent unit after a re-cap.
5. FSP makes decent PSUs as others said, but like Delta uses some lower-quality caps in their low to mid level units, should also be good after a re-cap.
6. no clue, but the "DR" in the model number probably means it is made by Deer which is absolute garbage.
7.HiPros are generally good (especially older ones) it may need a re-cap they tend to use teapos (sometimes other "seccond-tier" brands too) and heat can get to them over time.
8. I believe these are either AcBel or FSP depending on age (I believe the older ones with the 80mm fan are AcBel, the newer ones with the 120mm fan FSP), both are decent designs but will likely have seccond-tier caps (L-Tec/Lelon in the AcBel, Teapo/CapXon in the FSP) and may need a re-cap especially if they have been in service for a while (a preventitive re-cap may be beneficial even if no caps have failed). CoolerMaster also tends to over-rate their units, I believe the "460w" units are actually 400w.

[socketa]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Thanks for all that

"What series is the failed LTEC in the Delta?"
It's blue
When i powered it up, the fan initially spun fast for a second or 2, then it dropped down to about half that speed.
Then i unplugged it, and tried again, and it started at half-speed, and continued at half-speed.
Would this be due to a fan speed control, or rather, a fault?
Would it be a possible that the reason why it goes fast after being disconnected, is because a related capacitor has had time to discharge?

Here is a photo of the Delta:
Looks like some diodes have being omitted.
It's also is missing the 5vsb transformer and instead there is 3 black 4-legged square boxes (sorry, i don't know what to call them) in place of it.
Are these 3 PWM chips that have replaced the 2-transistors of the 5vsb mobo killer components?


Here is photo of the channel well:
There is two small half-round transistors, back-to-back, at the side of the secondary heatsink.
Are these the infamous 5vsb 2-transistors?

[Wester547]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Thanks for all that

"What series is the failed LTEC in the Delta?"
It's blue
When i powered it up, the fan initially spun fast for a second or 2, then it dropped down to about half that speed.
Then i unplugged it, and tried again, and it started at half-speed, and continued at half-speed.
Would this be due to a fan speed control, or rather, a fault?

At first gander I would think it pertains to fan speed. I have a 300W Hipro that does the same thing when I first start it up, the fan seems to spin very fast then slows down a bit, but that never changes no matter how long I apply AC power for.

Would it be a possible that the reason why it goes fast after being disconnected, is because a related capacitor has had time to discharge?

The input capacitors? I do wonder if the bulging capacitors have anything to do with it, though (possibly causing one of the rails to near an overvoltage). It would depend on what rail the 1500uF 16V CapXon GL is on, though (+12V?) as well as the 1000uF 16V LTEC LZG (-12V or +12V).

It's also is missing the 5vsb transformer and instead there is 3 black 4-legged square boxes (sorry, i don't know what to call them) in place of it.
Are these 3 PWM chips that have replaced the 2-transistors of the 5vsb mobo killer components?

It's not missing the flyback (+5VSB) transformer. The smaller transformer is for +5VSB and the larger one for the other section of the power supply (that uses forward topology). The three chips are optocouplers. One is for the primary current controller, one for +5VSB, and one for the secondary controller. I'd guess the unit uses a tiny switch to generate +5VSB. As for missing diodes, it's possible the snubber circuit on the primary side is underspec'd in the unit.

Here is photo of the channel well:
There is two small half-round transistors, back-to-back, at the side of the secondary heatsink.
Are these the infamous 5vsb 2-transistors?

Looks like it uses a half bridge design. Wouldn't be surprised if it uses a two transistor +5VSB circuit too.

[socketa]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Thanks,
Are optocouplers a better quality design, than a transformer, for the 5vsb?

So those two transistors in the photo, are possibly not the 2 5vsb transistors?
Am still none the wiser as to if these PSUs use the 2-transistor 5vsb circuit.
Your posts suggests that they both probably do
How would i know for sure?
What am i looking for?

[Wester547]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Are you asking if optocouplers are better than the feedback transformer usually found in half bridge units (both units already have a flyback transformer for +5VSB)? And it depends on how many transistors are found on the primary heatsink and what their part numbers are. If they're not mounted on the primary heatsink then they may be on a separate, smaller heatsink or they may not be on a heatsink at all (the case of SOIC-8 or DIP-8 PWM chips or just free standing TO-220 transistors).

[socketa]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

i see now,
The 5vsb transformer 'has being moved' (compared to my other PSU circuit boards) to next to the main transformer
And the octocouplers have replaced the the pwm isolating transformer.

On the delta psu, there is 2 big three pronged (transistors?) and one half sided two pronged (diode?)
i can't see their part numbers because they covered in glue

What do i need to look for to see if this PSU uses the 2-transistor 5vsb technology?
(so, those two small transistors that i pointed to, in post #5, are not the ones?)

Here is what is attached to the primary heatsink on the delta PSU:
(They are all black - it's just the sunlight making them look different colours)

[Wester547]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Does the small TO-220F transistor next to the larger TO-247 one have three or four legs in the Delta? If it has four, my best guess is that +5VSB is generated by Fairchild KA1H0165R, which is good. I also believe that the unit has two W9NK90Zs in parallel as the main switchers as a Google search of the GPS-400AB reveals the part number W9NK90Z and images of the unit.

[UraBahn]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

1. CWT aka. Fuhjyyu Special. Keep your eyes wide open for crap caps and lousy fans.
2. ISO is the same as Channel Well. Usually worse than usual for CWT as well.
3. Don't let that POS within 100 miles of your computer. Likely an over-rated PowMax, L&C or Linkworld in disguise.
4. Fix the Delta. It will be worth the effort (usually) unless it's starting to squeal.
5. FSP = tendency toward shonky undersized components and heatsinks. Older units had a disturbing tendency to burn dummy load resistors, and also had quite poor ripple/noise suppression for their supposed tier. Also frequently fitted with beyond disgusting Yate Loon sleeve fans that dry up and sieze with the regularity of the Anvil Chorus. I'd consider them a step above L&C, but only just.
6. Hyena is another name for L&C. Leave it for the crows.
7. Most HiPro are decent after recapping. No bulging caps? Recap it anyway (Capxon don't always bulge...)
8. Cooler Master is a crapshoot. The CM Extreme 420 I had briefly was a POS L&C (but fitted with all the missing components ironically.) I say, why take a gamble on getting an L&C?

[socketa]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Thanks,
At least the focus on the right one

"Does the small TO-220F transistor next to the larger TO-247 one have three or four legs"

Where should i look for those?

Have removed the board from the unit, and cant see anything with four legs, except for the ubkba80r rectifier

[Pentium4]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

A PSU shouldn't be completely disregarded just because it uses 2 transistor 5VSB. Some are better than others. Some have a critical cap, some don't. Some are also a lot more efficient than others. The ones that use a FET seem to create a lot less heat than with a regular BJT. I think with good caps, you don't have much to worry about. Some really old ones with overheat and possibly cook one of the transistors

Usually the other option is to use an 8 pin integrated circuit to generate the 5VSB, located on the primary or in between the primary and secondary heatsinks. Such as the one located in this picture below the big caps:



The Cooler Master is probably an overrated FSP

Care to post more pictures of the other PSU's?

[socketa]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Thanks,

So that delta is looking safer (for the mobo) with the 8 pin IC?
And are optocouplers better idea in place of the PWM isolating transformer?

rather thank asking a whole bunch of questions, you can have a look and tell me what you think

"Care to post more pictures of the other PSU's?"
yes, mission completed, so will do that now,

the delta has already being done.
the FSP has an extra transformer. what is that for?

here goes:

1. Channel Well






------------------------------------

2. ISO





-------------------------------------

3. Prosource





-------------------------------------

5. FSP










-----------------------------------------

6. Hyena

[mariushm]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

Yeah.. 1 and 2 is pretty much the same design.

The FSP seems quite well build, to me it looks like the transformer is capable of 250w and more, decently sized primary caps etc.

6 is the classical crap, cheap 15-30$ power supplies.

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

1. and 2. are good power supplies from a known OEM, worth recapping but a bit outdated as far as their 12V output capabilities are concerned.

3. Prosource
220W max
Use it for parts


5. FSP
Total 12V capability 22A and decent heatsinks, primary caps and main transformer for its rated output wattage. Definitely worth repairing and recapping.

6. Hyena
250 watt psu, or less, not worth recapping.

[stj]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

if you re-cap an FSP then keep your eyes open.
they like to hide small caps in heatshrink tubing.

[lti]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

The first three are the same, but the first two use better components. I don't think any of them are actually 400W.

The best three are the Delta, FSP, and Hipro. The Delta probably has the highest output power.

[socketa]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

thanks

"1. and 2. are good power supplies from a known OEM, worth recapping but a bit outdated as far as their 12V output capabilities are concerned."
can you elaborate a wee bit on that?
i only use socket A motherboards (so, no dual-core, hyper-threading, doodackies here)

on the delta photo, on post #5, there is a small 47uf 50V cap
you can just see it at the bottom LH corner of the PWM isolator transformer
it's in-between the bottom of the primary heatsink and the optocouplers

since this board has a PWM control chip, instead of transistors, is this capacitor still considered to be a "critical cap"?

i.e.,
if the cap fails, does it take-out the PWM chip (or 2-transistors - in the case of no PWM control chip), then blow up the motherboard?

[goodpsusearch]

Re: Are any of these psu's worthy?

thanks

"1. and 2. are good power supplies from a known OEM, worth recapping but a bit outdated as far as their 12V output capabilities are concerned."
can you elaborate a wee bit on that?
i only use socket A motherboards (so, no dual-core, hyper-threading, doodackies here)

Then, you are going to use those psus with computer that are 5V based.

If that is correct, the first 2 psus would be good for that job after a recap!