FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

[momaka]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

BTW should we start new thread for Epsilon/Everest platform, or keep it here? Cause the platforms are very similar, the stand-by rail is almost the same, just the components are sometimes moved a few milimeters here or there.

IDK. If it was up to me, I would probably start a new thread and link back to this one for reference (particularly to posts with relevant info).
That way, those PSUs get more attention on their own, but people still get to find this thread too.

Interesting this is. This Epsilon of mine I mentioned above works fine when I turn it on from no load @SB rail. Than I can go as high as 3 A and it still kicks.

However, when I keep it in stand-by mode, and hook as low as 0.5 A on that rail, it starts restarting so the output voltage is close to none. Than it also can not start in such state as both primary driver and secondary supervisor are powered from it. Any idea what this strange thing may be?

Could be something related to a marginal component value used, where over time the part ages, drifts, and causes the PSU not to start. Most likely something that affects the restart/UVP/OPP of the DM311 IC.

Probably best to look into the DM311 datasheet and see how the application circuit they give in that compares to what is in your PSU.

Compensation and feedback to the 431 shunt may be another place to look into. See what is in the DM311 datasheet again. Also compare that to what you see in other non-FSP PSUs.

Anyway, man, I am starting to think about tossing anything labeled FSP into fire next time. This is really crazy. You always think after all the work everything's OK, and it always comes with some brand new crap on you…

Yeah, I never fully recap a PSU just like that. First I make sure to get the 5VSB running, if it isn't already (and also make sure it works under load). Then I do the rest of the recap.

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Interesting this is. This Epsilon of mine I mentioned above works fine when I turn it on from no load @SB rail. Than I can go as high as 3 A and it still kicks.

However, when I keep it in stand-by mode, and hook as low as 0.5 A on that rail, it starts restarting so the output voltage is close to none. Than it also can not start in such state as both primary driver and secondary supervisor are powered from it. Any idea what this strange thing may be?

Anyway, man, I am starting to think about tossing anything labeled FSP into fire next time. This is really crazy. You always think after all the work everything's OK, and it always comes with some brand new crap on you…

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Yep, but still seen 100uF only in the retail Blue Storms II 500 W or so. And now also in a 500W Epsilon. Which is some decent crap as well, besides the D6.3 470/16 Teapos SC, it is somewhat crapping me with some boards where the stand-by rail oscillates in an on-off state, but when I hit the right time to turn the boards on, they work OK. Another board seems to be OK. Kinda a mystery…

BTW should we start new thread for Epsilon/Everest platform, or keep it here? Cause the platforms are very similar, the stand-by rail is almost the same, just the components are sometimes moved a few milimeters here or there.

[momaka]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Did we ever found the right value of the Z41 zener? Got another bad one…if it is stabilising the voltage for the controller than something like 16-18 V would be OK? The datasheet for DM311 states the chip starts using the auxiliary winding as soon as the voltage reaches 9 V. And nominal is 20 V. So 18-21 V should be better choice I guess…

Pretty good guess. Should work. I had to do the same for a TV board made by Delta (had an ICE FET-controller combo for the standby IC). Used 18V Zener IIRC, and that worked fine.

BTW I just got enough of this "every cable soldered in the board" crap which si terrible for any decent work and testing during the refurbishing procedure.

Yeah, I hate that too.
That is one reason why I like those old Macron PSUs - there is a connector for everything. Even the fuse has a holder.

As for No. 1/2, I removed both the SB transformers, they seem to be both pretty much in the same condition according to Malish (Mikhails AVR tester). Actually now just tested transformer from No. 1 in the No. 2 and it still works. So I guess also the 2 in 1 will still show the same behavior (only 3 V @+5 V SB) which means the problem is elsewhere. Any guesses?

Check/replace the 431 shunt and maybe the opto too, just to rule those out.

As for the C5 I think somebody asked about, Fairchild's DM311 datasheet suggests 10-47 uF. It is true that I *think* I've seen 100uF caps only in the 500W Blue Storms II.

The larger capacitance is there probably because the APFC controller and/or PWM controller on the primary may be drawing power from that rail as well.

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

So, as for unit No. 2, I managed to make the SB working. Only reasonably close zener I found was 18 V something, than the 2R0 resistor was replaced (measured OK but it was burned almost as if fused) and also D41 for something reasonable, this time some old Vishay BYV26C ultrafast (1 A/700 V, 30 ns).

As for No. 1/2, I removed both the SB transformers, they seem to be both pretty much in the same condition according to Malish (Mikhails AVR tester). Actually now just tested transformer from No. 1 in the No. 2 and it still works. So I guess also the 2 in 1 will still show the same behavior (only 3 V @+5 V SB) which means the problem is elsewhere. Any guesses? I'd remind that the 1, unlike 2, has no scorched marks, it is absolutelly clean, besides few bloated caps there were no visible problems. Used chloroprene glue but nothing was darkened (yet).

As for the C5 I think somebody asked about, Fairchild's DM311 datasheet suggests 10-47 uF. It is true that I *think* I've seen 100uF caps only in the 500W Blue Storms II.

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Did we ever found the right value of the Z41 zener? Got another bad one…if it is stabilising the voltage for the controller than something like 16-18 V would be OK? The datasheet for DM311 states the chip starts using the auxiliary winding as soon as the voltage reaches 9 V. And nominal is 20 V. So 18-21 V should be better choice I guess…

BTW I just got enough of this "every cable soldered in the board" crap which si terrible for any decent work and testing during the refurbishing procedure. So I've just made the fan unpluggable using a connectors from other stuff, and will solder an europlug cable to the board, which will give me enough of manoeuvrability to work on the board (=replace caps mostly) but also possibility to easily plug it to mains. It does not *need* grounding and ground reference for short-time testing.

[Elitist]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

" they don't do business with "consumers" "
- you mean they won't do business with the SP Corporation?!
- only down side might be minimum quantities, ie can't buy one off 5ohm sme, but anything costing more than ~£2 is usually available in single units.
- but if Bh is marketing caps, problem solved.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

As for price of caps, best price/delivery for quality stuff is rs-online - operates internationally now,

Depending on where you live, they don't du business with "consumers", only Business to Business...

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Well I can't provide next day delivery, but my cap stock is generally much cheaper than of these big brands…

[Elitist]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Thanks for those comments, Stef. No, much later, around 2012-ish. No sign of the transformers or coils overheating - copper wire and varnish still pristine. All are/were 400W and none overworked.

As for price of caps, best price/delivery for quality stuff is rs-online - operates internationally now, can get a trade a/c with 'free' p&p, next day ail order throughout Europe and antipodes. Used to be a tiny little operation in a London back street (Radiospares)selling war surplus, now massive operation. Cheaper but 1yr warranted from CPC, part of the Farnell international group; also sells most gear any diy handiman/woman will ever need, like engine oil, kitchen appliance spares, consumer unit, memory, garden equipment, hammers...
[in this context, esp. hammers]

[Stefan Payne]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Yea Behemot, I did not even check the price of the large bulk cap before I made this thread.
I was shocked to see they go for around €10, and not only on my local Swedish electronics store but even on ebay! (Genuine Japanese caps of course).

Where are you looking??
Maybe you should learn German
We have a rather cheapish electronics store here:
https://www.reichelt.de/Becher-Elkos...0&SEARCH=%252A

270uF/400V KMR for only 3,40€ (450V 4,35€)
330uF/400V KMR for only 4,15€
https://www.reichelt.de/Becher-Elkos...0&SEARCH=%252A

Also those tiny <50uF/50V Caps are dirt cheap there - sometimes cost half of mousers. And also you might want to get some Kemet A750 Polymer caps...

[Stefan Payne]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

When was your PSU made?
If it's around 2006 or so, it may be better to throw it away because you might want to replace the PFC coil.
Those units had issues with the material of the coil.

As far as I know this only happens on smaller versions.
So up to 550W you want to change the coil, on 700W it's not so much of an issue, if at all...

[Elitist]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Many thanks, Bh. My DM311 is a Fairchild Q0170R, labelled M4. FWIW, it looks clean as a whistle no signs of burning/overheating either around (top of board) or SMEs under, although I don't like the way their adhesive dots are discoloured across the entire piece.
My 6800 is a CM6800G lo srt-up current PFC/PWh controller. Had to engage in gymnastics, lights & lenses to read it on daughterboard. Again, looks clean.
Testing these blighters in circuit isn't easy and probably not instructive. Don't have instrumentation to check out-of-circuit. Is replacement worth the effort?!
T2, the SB transformer is unmarked, too, as is the main transformer. Removing either might not help as I don't possess equipment to test under load. I realise inspection alone isn't always a guide, but it often is! For me, the big puzzle is all three of my (identical) units, bought at different times exhibit the same shortcoming(s)/fault(s). Logical deduction usually suggests a single defect in most cases; perhaps this is the exception.
It's said that one should know when to quit, but I don't usually subscribe to that philosophy. Masochist?

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Well they have more common things, like the main transformer, the output inductor and of course - the feedback and regulation. The +3.3 V is magamp'ed so that's kinda failproof. If the inductor is designed to saturate early, it can still provide good enough voltage no matter what's comming from the +5 V.

BTW, I took three other, non-FSP units, screwed one somehow (but that was slightly greater work with some operations and transplantations, so I guess problem is somewhere in there), the other two were just fine and very easy work: HP AcBel 300watter (with DC-DC even!) and Delta GPS300FB B or something like that, very nice, simple and airy unit, I like it. One G31 board from ASUS did not like the AcBel much but it was running with Biostar A780L so no prob.

As for GLNs, I have found another 350watter so as soon as I'll have time I'll remove both SB transformers and compare the windings with Malish to test everell's theory…

DM311/Fc270 & 6800 - where are these located, please?

DM's or other SB PWM's are on the stand-by rail, that is in front of the SB transformer, IIRC next to the primary heatsink. The 6800 should be on a primary daughterboard if memory serves me well?

[Elitist]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

DM311/Fc270 & 6800 - where are these located, please? Circuit numbers? Can Q12/13/30/31 be adequately tested in circuit (static), power off?

[Elitist]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

FWIT (I know you guys like your mnemonics - perhaps I should label myself TW*T, choose your own vowel), I have read through all seven pages of thread again. Understood about 50% (not an electronic/electric engineeral, or even an engineer of any sort). Seem to have followed all your best bits of advice, got the 5VSB running, restored all the OPs, got full power on 5V. What puzzles me is, if, all caps & Ds replaced, the amps and volts get that far down the trail how can it just be the 3&12V rails, which are working, fail to provide big amps? Surely must be down to a single faulty but not broken component or group thereof? Bet Snr. Everell from Va. knows the answer judging by the pain and suffering he's experienced working on these...

[Elitist]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Indeed! I have a bunch of cheap, simple PSUs - change a couple of caps and they're good for another 3/4yrs. HEC and SCL are favourites, but expensive, complex ones like OCZ contain the same old cheap, faulty caps/components as well as other design shortcomings.
As far as these FSPs are concerned, though, they represent a certain challenge. Clearly, the design is OK, as acknowledged earlier, they run for 2-3yrs - it's the components that are dud. So, change the caps - still not working 100%; what else is failing? Semis? Transformers? Or, maybe, a minor control component? Like a detective novel. Looking on the brighter side, perhaps there's lessons to learn apart from binning the unit and creating even more landfill?
For the record, changed the R92 & D90 which were badly burned - seemed to have approx correct values in circuit but when removed there was a layer of char underneath from the carbonisation of the spot of adhesive used to secure before reflow soldering.
Any further ideas on my failing 3 & 12V lines very welcome...

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

My patience with these craps is already running out. Took one 350watter which looked fine, only full of dust and OFC caps bloated, but no heat damage anywhere. Did complete recap with my new Rubycons, guess what. Frelling 3 V @+5 V SB and 2.4 V @PWR On.

If I knew it will be another piece of stubborn crap, I'd take something else to refubish. Especially now when I have like one more day to collect some HW elsewhere and than put like 6 PCs together from that

Good that this is one of the last units, got one Epsilon and than normal units which only need recap and they WORK

[Elitist]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Ha! Not to worry, but appreciate it you could tell which one it is for future reference, děkuji.
More testing: As before +5V and +5VSB seem totally robust but 3.3 & 12V lines support 36ohm loads but not 15ohm ditto. Is my logic (sorry about pun) correct that the SB is OK and that the issue lies within the 3/5V rails? If I can pin this down, I'll be able to resurect three units...

[Behemot]

Re: FSP400-60GLN worth fixing?

Found one board which already lacks the transformer since my last experiments I guess…maybe next time