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The PSU FAQ

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    #31
    Re: The PSU FAQ

    Anyone ever heard or tried of GTR? No idea if its good or bad though. :-|

    Heard about them through Australian reviews of some of their products:

    http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot015.htm

    http://www.dansdata.com/quickshot016.htm

    http://www.overclockers.com.au/article.php?id=254901

    http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/techreviews/?p=140
    CPU: Sempron 2500+ / P4 2.8E / P4 2.6C / A64 x2 4000+ / E6420 / E8500 / i5-3470 / i7-3770
    GPU: TNT2 M64 / Radeon 9000 / MX 440-SE / 7300GT / Radeon 4670 / GTS 250 / Radeon 7950 / 660 Ti / GTS 450

    Main Driver: Intel i7 3770 | Asus P8H61-MX | MSI GTS 450 | 8GB of NO NAME DDR3 RAM (2x4GB) | 1TB SATA HDD (W.D. Blue) | ASUS DVD-RW | 22" HP Compaq LE2202x (1920x1080) | Seasonic S12II-620 PSU | Antec 300 | Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1

    Comment


      #32
      Re: The PSU FAQ

      3 days ago another friends had problem with his PC: the system HD suddenly died.
      I was not afraid because I did recovery disk so I thought it would have been easy to fix everything with a new HD... but I was completely wrong!
      I'm sitting here trying to recover his files on the second HD

      The problem was not only the first HD but the PSU (Deer 300W) with some bulged caps and the system crashed when I was resizing one partion .
      Today I have bought a new PSU and I hope it is a good one, at least better than Chinese anonymous PSU.

      I wrote here to ask if someone knows this brand

      http://www.tecnoware.com/uk/prodottisf.asp?idf=41

      because I have not found serious review or info.

      I have bought FAL550FS for 41€ http://www.tecnoware.com/uk/dettaglio.asp?idf=41&ids=12

      The mobo QDI Platinix 2E V2.0 seems ok, the caps are from good brand.

      Ciao
      Gianni
      Last edited by Gianni; 07-31-2008, 04:45 PM.
      "In the confrontation between the stream and the rock, the stream always wins...Not through strength, but through persistence."
      H. J. Brown

      Comment


        #33
        Re: The PSU FAQ

        well the from the outside it seems ok, but only pics from the inside tell the whole story.
        so if opening it won't break warranty seal, open it and take some pics.

        or wait for zandrax to return from his vacation(presuming he knows about itlaian stuff), he should be here soon...

        i'm pretty sure it's better than 'Chinese anonymous PSU.' which cost about 10€.
        it seems to have warranty that covers anything connected up to 500 000€.
        chinese cheap makers just don't do that...hehe...

        Comment


          #34
          Re: The PSU FAQ

          Originally posted by i4004
          i'm pretty sure it's better than 'Chinese anonymous PSU.' which cost about 10€.
          it seems to have warranty that covers anything connected up to 500 000€.
          chinese cheap makers just don't do that...hehe...
          Sorry i4004, here cheap "gutless wonders", as KC8 refers to, start from about 20 euro at retail prices; if you're a vendor you may find deals such as "200 PSUs for 250 euro", common people don't.
          Anyway I foud the Tecnoware FAL550FS specs:
          - ATX 1.3 (old design?);
          - 82% efficiency (but it doesn't state anything else: kind of pfc employed, how efficiency is calculated and so on);
          - overvoltage, overcurrent and short circuit protection (better than nothing);
          - only one Sata connector (so old design, I guess);
          - weight: 1.5 kgs (<ironic>so we have a new lightweight champion! 550W for 1.5 kgs is an astounding power/weight ratio.</ironic> Given the low price, too low for good Active pfc, and the low weight, I suppose it's pfc-less: passive pfc coils weight about 200-300 grams and LC Power, that employs them, weight at least 2 kgs. Yeah, I know pfc-less psus aren't allowed to be sold in EC but they're here anyway, out of law.);
          - currents: 28 A at 3.3 V, 38 A at 5 V, 26 A at 12 V. No combined values.

          Despite the 500000 euro warranty, I think it's average chinese productions, such as Allied ones, but under an italian brand: no "Made in Italy", I'm sure. It's marginally better than Deers but it's inferior to similar priced LC Power PSUs.

          I continue later.

          Zandrax
          Have an happy life.

          Comment


            #35
            Re: The PSU FAQ

            @ Gianni: I suggest you to buy a decent psu, the Tecnoware is only marginally better than the old Deer and it's IMHO overpriced. You've three choices:
            - buy a Corsair VX450: it's stable, correctly priced (65-70 euro), active pfc, good design and caps. It's efficiency is very good, around 80%, though not as excellent as in more recent products and it can power any recent computer except for high end SLI/Crossfire configurations: Jonnyguru reviewed it a year ago. There are alternatives such as Enermax Modu 82+, Seasonic S12, Antecs etc but they cost more: the Corsair is the bung for the buck;
            - buy some similar priced but well known products: LC Power, Fortron, some old Enermax gear. Most of times they employ passive pfc, efficiency is around 70-75% and caps are average ones, like Teapos. I don't like much LC Power because they're overrated (the 550W is more likely a 350-400 one), but I'm told they work and shutdown themselves without harming your computer;
            - buy used, high quality psus: on ebay.it a vendor sells some used Newton Power psus at an attractive price. I bought mine by him: there are pics in the PSU Build quality pictorial thread.

            Zandrax
            Have an happy life.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: The PSU FAQ

              Thanks zandrax for your detailed answer.

              Next time I buy a PSU I will follow your suggestion.

              This time I was in a hurry, my friend was leaving for vacation and he wanted the PC ready ASAP so I had non time to collect info; when in the shop they gave me an anonymous PSU I asked for something better and the only one available was Tecnoware.
              By the way, few days ago I recapped an old Tecnoware FAL300 and I saw it was very similar if not identical to a Deer (PCB, IC...) but he had less caps and inductances .

              I repair PC just for hobby it is not my job so I have not a big experience and knowledge about MOBO, PSU etc... but since I joined this forum I'm learning a lot about all this stuff.
              Most of the time I repair friend's PC, TV and all kind of electronic devices ready for trash or without warranty ; you know, friends satisfied talk about me to other people so in the last period I'm receiving a lot of request and my hobby is becoming a second job.
              I have cooperated for 6 years with a friend who run a computer shop, but he never repaired a MOBO or opened a PSU because most of people wants cheap PC and because to repair/recap a MOBO/PSU it is more difficult than to sell a new one. Moreover you need some skill to solder-change components and you need the right tools; I think there are not so many places where you can find such kind of services and I really don't know how much they can ask to recap a MOBO, probably it costs more than buy a new one.

              Ciao
              Gianni
              "In the confrontation between the stream and the rock, the stream always wins...Not through strength, but through persistence."
              H. J. Brown

              Comment


                #37
                Re: The PSU FAQ

                Originally posted by Gianni
                Thanks zandrax for your detailed answer.

                Next time I buy a PSU I will follow your suggestion.

                This time I was in a hurry, my friend was leaving for vacation and he wanted the PC ready ASAP so I had non time to collect info; when in the shop they gave me an anonymous PSU I asked for something better and the only one available was Tecnoware.
                Better looking for another shop: most ones have only the low (bad, cheap and scary psus) and the high end (say 600+W Enermax/Seasonic/PC Power & Cooling with modular cables, neon lights and expensive prices), I know, but some others sell decent one at a right price. Last choice: buy online.

                Originally posted by Gianni
                By the way, few days ago I recapped an old Tecnoware FAL300 and I saw it was very similar if not identical to a Deer (PCB, IC...) but he had less caps and inductances .
                Don't judge on a single unit: Tecnoware has at least two psu series, the "basic" noname products you bought and the X-Typhoon series which is heavier, with passive pfc, some not essential niceties (blue paint, modular cables, leds ...) and resembling the look of some Fortron units. Of course the latter is better (at least is law compliant ) but is more expensive: the 550W model costs about 65 euro.
                So Tecnoware is a reseller like Thermaltake: some series are quite good (e.g. Thoughpower), others average to better-change-brand grade (Purepower, TR, TR2) and quality varies a lot among single models. I agree this policy may be deceiving for customers (you can't trust a brand), but it isn't illegal.

                Originally posted by Gianni
                I repair PC just for hobby it is not my job so I have not a big experience and knowledge about MOBO, PSU etc... but since I joined this forum I'm learning a lot about all this stuff.
                Most of the time I repair friend's PC, TV and all kind of electronic devices ready for trash or without warranty ; you know, friends satisfied talk about me to other people so in the last period I'm receiving a lot of request and my hobby is becoming a second job.
                So you damn the day you got your first computer: since then you've become the free help desk for every friend
                I joke, this is common: try balancing your job, your hobby and your free time before driving yourself mad. E.g. dedicate only N hours a day to pc repairs, tell your friends they have to wait a couple of days and so on.

                Originally posted by Gianni
                I have cooperated for 6 years with a friend who run a computer shop, but he never repaired a MOBO or opened a PSU because most of people wants cheap PC and because to repair/recap a MOBO/PSU it is more difficult than to sell a new one. Moreover you need some skill to solder-change components and you need the right tools; I think there are not so many places where you can find such kind of services and I really don't know how much they can ask to recap a MOBO, probably it costs more than buy a new one.
                You got the point: nowadays computers are a commodity, like TV sets or mobile phones. If it's out of warranty and it doesn't work, any technician will charge a lot for its repair: the charge is fair, because repairing is a time consuming activity, but often is equal or greather than the value of repaired item so most people will think twice before doing it.
                Desktop motherboards are old when they're 6 months old and they costs up to 30 euro when out of warranty, so nobody will repair them unless it can be done for few bucks; server boards, OTOH, can be repaired with proficiency because a new board means a complete os reinstallation most of times and boards are expensive: it's cost-effective to have them repaired than build a new server from scratch.
                PSUs are too time intensive: you've to open the box, locate the broken/burnt parts and replace them. This involves desoldering some if not all internal cables (the colorful spaghetti mess ), desoldering capacitors and have spare parts handy (psu caps usually have a not-standard diameter, 10 mm vs 12.5, so you have hard time in getting the right substitutes); moreover this makes sense when the psu is overall good (design, components, power) and only a few components are badly chosen: e.g. Antecs up to 2007, good design but doomed Fuhjyyu [sometimes misspelled Fukj-you ] caps, or old HiPros.

                Anyway, if you want to know about power supplies (and recognize the ones worth a cap replacement) then a good start is Elma PSU Faq (italian only), maybe more than a faq. Second place for good psu review sites: Jonnyguru (the reference), SilentPCreview (focus on low noise components, they have a good test bench), X-Bit labs (strong point: it tests power distribution among 3.3, 5 and 12 V rails), Hardware secrets (strong point: testers dig into psus at single component level, they desolder everything ), [H]ard-OCP (average, at Badcaps there has been a discussion with an H-OCP member about expensive and well reviewd PC Power & Cooling psus despite employing average grade caps, Teapo brand, which suffers from heat: damn, I can't find the discussion anymore ...).

                Well, give them a read when you've enough time.

                Zandrax
                Last edited by zandrax; 08-16-2008, 02:39 PM.
                Have an happy life.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: The PSU FAQ

                  Originally posted by grss1982
                  Anyone ever heard or tried of GTR? No idea if its good or bad though.
                  Some of them are Youngyear (very bad), some are CWT (very good). You need to go on a case by case basis with that company.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: The PSU FAQ

                    I didn't see Dynex. They are sold an Best Buy and you can find them on eBay for 16~18 average. No problems so far, and I've been using them for more than two years and not a single one has to be replaced yet.
                    Dynex Products Home Page

                    The specific PSU I'm talking about is this
                    There are 10 kind of people in this world: those that understand binary, and those who don't.
                    • ASUS ROG Maximus IX Code
                    • Intel Core i5-7600K 3.8GHz
                    • 16gb GSKILL TridentZ RGB DDR4-3200
                    • 1 M2 SSD + 2 WD Blue 1TB (Mirrored)
                    • Windows 10 Pro x64
                    • GeForce GT1050
                      2 x Acer KA240H + 1 Vewsonic VP2130 21 (a cap replacement job )

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: The PSU FAQ

                      I have one probably stupid question, but anyway, I still don't quiet get it. How the current really flows so it can use both diodes in rectifiying bridge? From what PeteS in CA wrote (one diode is active during the each part fo the cycle), one would say, only the current which one diode can handle could be taken out. But obviously the current is limited to the amount which both diodes can handle together.
                      Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                        #41
                        Re: The PSU FAQ

                        up?
                        Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                          #42
                          Re: The PSU FAQ

                          It's probably way late to respond, but there are 4 rectifiers in a bridge rectifier. Two conduct during one half of the AC cycle, and the other 2 during the other half cycle. Thus the filter cap(s) get charged during the full cycle, or the full wave. Hence the name "full wave bridge bridge".
                          PeteS in CA

                          Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                          ****************************
                          To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
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                            #43
                            Re: The PSU FAQ

                            I meant the secondary rectifiers, there is no full bridge being used, just two diodes with common output. In every cycle, just one diode is used, yes? But I have learnt there is also something called duty cycle, so, in reality every diode is able to rectify all the power of the whle rectifier because after short time the second diode will do the rectifying. The first could "rest" in this time, and otherwise, right?
                            Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

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                              #44
                              Re: The PSU FAQ

                              Ah, sorry for misunderstanding. The answer depends on the topology, whether it's a forward converter or a half- or full-bridge.

                              In a bridge topology current flows through the transformer primary winding one way then the other in alternating half-cycles (with "dead time" in between each half cycle of conduction). The secondaries are center-tapped, with that center tap being output return. The ends of the winding each have a rectifier (or one of the rectifiers in a dual rectifier), which conduct in alternating cycles.

                              In a forward converter current flows through the transformer primary winding in just one direction. So you have an "on" time and an "off". This simplified schematic on Wikipedia shows how the output rectifiers are connected in a forward converter. There is one rectifier (or half of a dual), D1, that conducts during the "on" time, charging the output inductor through the load and back to the other end of the winding. During the "off" time, the transformer and D1 are not active, but the inductor is charged and able to provide current to the load. The second rectifier, D2, is connected to complete that current path. During "off" time, current flows out of the inductor, through the load to the output return, from return into the second rectifier, and through the rectifier into the other end of the inductor. The current through the inductor is "continuous". It is either being charged while current is also being supplied to the load or partly discharging to supply current to the load. Thus, the output inductor averages the rectified voltage pulses to supply a continuous current to the load, resulting in a DC voltage.
                              PeteS in CA

                              Power Supplies should be boring: No loud noises, no bright flashes, and no bad smells.
                              ****************************
                              To kill personal responsibility, initiative or success, punish it by taxing it. To encourage irresponsibility, improvidence, dependence and failure, reward it by subsidizing it.
                              ****************************
                              Anti-Covid-Vaxxer pig crap claim/prediction, Doctor: Heart Failure from mRNA Jabs "Will Kill Most People" | Principia Scientific Intl. ; Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche Warns COVID-19 Jab Injuries and Deaths Will Soon "Collapse Our Health System" (VIDEO) ; Fully Vaxxed May 2021; Since that time I've done 13 5Ks, 1 8K, 12 10Ks, and 4 half marathons

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: The PSU FAQ

                                I see, thanks for explaining this :-) In both modes icreasing the switching frequency means increasing forwarded power, right? In first, there are shorter dead times, in the second, power is pumped more often to the inductor.

                                Anyway, the fact that the single diodes are able to let the same amount of current through as is the maximum of whole device (two diodes in parallel) is conected with the duty cycle, right?
                                Less jewellery, more gold into electrotech industry! Half of the computer problems is caused by bad contacts

                                Exclusive caps, meters and more!
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