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    #1

    Needs caps for my 22" lcd

    I am new to this forum, so please forgive me ahead of time.

    I will try to make this simple. I have a 22" lcd (Westinghouse LCM-22w2) that is malfunctioning. Research reveals my symptoms are cause by faulty caps in the PS. I making a desperate attempt to replace the caps (as some are bulging pretty badly) in hopes to fix the problem.

    So here is my problem. I need polarized electrolytic caps (at least that is what the board comes equipt with. I was having some issues finding caps with the exact specs that came from the board. I just want to get the right replacements.

    IE: The voltage is 5 or 10 V off on the rating, but the capacitance rating is the same.

    1) Will getting a slightly higher or lower voltage rating not be a good idea (providing I have the right capacitance) ? What issues will I run into in either direction?

    2) Do I have to get the same caps, or is it just the spec that needs to be the same.


    If you have experience in any of these areas, any help would be much appreciated. If you know what will work for me and what will not, that would be awesome as well. I have pics if anyone needs them. I only need like 5 caps, and I do have the specs if needed.

    Also, if this is not in the correct forum, please let me know where this post belongs.
    Last edited by Nicks84; 02-22-2011, 06:38 PM.
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    #2
    Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

    This is better suited in the Troubleshooing Computer Displays forum. You can ask the moderator to move the post.

    I'm in a rush, but you can order high quality low ESR caps from digikey.com. Select Panasonic FR, FM, and FC (in that order).

    You can go up in voltage, but NOT down (unless you know for sure the exact voltage).

    Follow PlainBill's instructions and replace ALL your electrolytic caps on the power board except the largest one which rarely, but not never fails.

    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...33&postcount=2

    Capacitors die from age, heat, and shoddy build quality. Capacitors DO NOT have to be visibly bloated in order to bad. They can be out of tolerance uF (a 1000uF measures 20uF) and/or have high ESR (ohm). A multimeter will be insufficient to test for ESR. For that you need an ESR tester which costs between $50 and $300.

    Most members here will recommend that you replace ALL capacitors with reputable brands from reputable sellers. Brands like Rubycon, Panasonic, and United Chemicon are suggested. A list of recommended caps can be found at

    https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2280
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      #3
      Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

      What Retired said.

      It might help to know where you're located to suggest where to get caps.

      You should be able to get the same cap values without having to substitute, just don't go lower in voltage. Also physical size is important. Too tall, you might not get the case back together.
      36 Monitors, 3 TVs, 4 Laptops, 1 motherboard, 1 Printer, 1 iMac, 2 hard drive docks and one IP Phone repaired so far....

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

        Originally posted by smason View Post
        What Retired said.

        It might help to know where you're located to suggest where to get caps.

        You should be able to get the same cap values without having to substitute, just don't go lower in voltage. Also physical size is important. Too tall, you might not get the case back together.
        Good to know. Thanks.

        I am located in Orlando Fl. I assumed online would be the best place, as going to radio shack or Best Buy would probably cost 3x as much. I am shooting for cheaper here, lol. But I do want to get it right.

        As for ensuring size, how exactly do I go about that ? I tried Digikey, but it didn't seem they had what I was looking for. Im sure it was user error. Maybe pics would help ?

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

          Digikey is your best bet. Radio Shack has general purpose caps, they won't work in a monitor.

          When you find them on Digikey, you can see the specs as far as size.
          PlainBill has a great suggestion, just measure the tallest cap on the board and make sure none are any taller than that. I find occasionally when a Panasonic FM is too tall the FC are shorter, and fatter, and fatter don't matter (usually)

          Start here:
          http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...20electrolytic

          Then select FM FC and in-stock and go from there.
          36 Monitors, 3 TVs, 4 Laptops, 1 motherboard, 1 Printer, 1 iMac, 2 hard drive docks and one IP Phone repaired so far....

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

            A few more suggestions.

            Start by making up a list of capacitors by location number, diameter, capacitance and voltage. Note the height of the tallest cap - that is the maximum height. Flag those caps which are crowded together (diameter limitation).

            Now search Digikey for suitable caps. Before you place the order, post the maximum height, diameter, capacitance and voltage of each value, and the stock number of your proposed replacement. Someone will verify this.

            And when you place the order, specify USPS First Class Mail shipping.

            PlainBill
            For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

            Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

              OK, where to start...lol. I spoke to a cousin of mine that said he could get me caps, as he works in the stock room for the Electronics dept at his College. This was before I joined this forum. He got what he could for me, but I ended up with 5 Axial caps(out of 9) even though I specified radials. (that was today). So, concerning that. Other than just bad practice habits and spacing, how bad of an idea would it be to just use the Axials and route one lead down the side of the cap, into the mounting holes like normal ?

              On to the more practical note, I have decide completely against using any of the caps my cousin gave me, and just ordering all new ones from Digikey, as advised. This takes out most controversy/ambiguity (since I'd have little specs on the ones from cousin).


              Originally posted by PlainBill View Post
              Start by making up a list of capacitors by location number, diameter, capacitance and voltage. Note the height of the tallest cap - that is the maximum height. Flag those caps which are crowded together (diameter limitation).

              Now search Digikey for suitable caps. Before you place the order, post the maximum height, diameter, capacitance and voltage of each value, and the stock number of your proposed replacement. Someone will verify this.

              And when you place the order, specify USPS First Class Mail shipping.

              PlainBill
              I have made a list of info for the original caps in an Excel spreadsheet, noting everything mentioned. I have searched Digikey (finally figured it out, LOL) for what I thought were suitable replacements. As far as I know, all replacements are what they need to be. 1 or 2 were a little smaller and a couple were a little taller (but not exceeding the tallest. Diameter will work as well. I was hoping you guys could take a look for any red flags, as I have never done this before. As such, I have yet to purchase the order, it's just waiting for verification.
              Attached Files

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                Originally posted by Nicks84 View Post
                As such, I have yet to purchase the order, it's just waiting for verification.
                2) For the 220uF 25V, I would choose the FM over FC at

                http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P12383-ND

                3) For the 2200uF 10V, I would choose the FR over the FC at

                http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P14382-ND

                4) For the 330uF 25V, I would choose FR over FM

                http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...name=P14415-ND

                In general, FR => FM => FC. FR/FM are lower ESR and higher ripple than FC.

                The less than $10 that you will spend is totally worth it for a 22 inch monitor. You will probably never have to replace the caps again using these high quality caps.
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                  #9
                  Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                  Okay, replacement caps came in today. I have successfully replaced all of them, excluding the big one. I still have a problem, but a few symptoms that were present before, are now gone :-)

                  But lets back track a bit. From the beginning. This was my initial problem (phase 1)
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ_Q4mf2QdQ

                  After running it like that for a a month, it totally croaked on me (phase 2). Upon powering on, it would turn on normally for a few seconds (no more than 5). After which point, the green LED (on) would flicker then shut off (as would the monitor). I noticed that this new found issue was accompanied by a high frequency whine (~16-18 kHz). The unit did not have to be powered on, only plugged up, and I could hear it. I narrowed the noise down to the PSU. I was right (I think).

                  Now that I have re-capped the board, I have no white or blue screen. So the advice given was good. However, I am still left with the problem from phase 2 (less the high freq whine).

                  At 1st I was unsure where to go from here, but it turns out, there are a few threads in here with this same monitor. It did not show up under the search of the model number though, but under Westinghouse:-?

                  I read many threads which led me to try and see if I have visual when shining a light on the lcd. I DO. So is that indicative of my back-lights ? Any advice on that? I'm busting into it today.

                  PS: Should I continue in this thread here, or should I revive an old thread ?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                    Originally posted by Nicks84 View Post
                    Okay, replacement caps came in today. I have successfully replaced all of them, excluding the big one. I still have a problem, but a few symptoms that were present before, are now gone :-)

                    But lets back track a bit. From the beginning. This was my initial problem (phase 1)
                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ_Q4mf2QdQ

                    After running it like that for a a month, it totally croaked on me (phase 2). Upon powering on, it would turn on normally for a few seconds (no more than 5). After which point, the green LED (on) would flicker then shut off (as would the monitor). I noticed that this new found issue was accompanied by a high frequency whine (~16-18 kHz). The unit did not have to be powered on, only plugged up, and I could hear it. I narrowed the noise down to the PSU. I was right (I think).

                    Now that I have re-capped the board, I have no white or blue screen. So the advice given was good. However, I am still left with the problem from phase 2 (less the high freq whine).

                    At 1st I was unsure where to go from here, but it turns out, there are a few threads in here with this same monitor. It did not show up under the search of the model number though, but under Westinghouse:-?

                    I read many threads which led me to try and see if I have visual when shining a light on the lcd. I DO. So is that indicative of my back-lights ? Any advice on that? I'm busting into it today.

                    PS: Should I continue in this thread here, or should I revive an old thread ?
                    Continue this thread. Have you checked the fuse for the inverter (F200)?

                    PlainBill
                    For a number of reasons, both health and personal, I will no longer be active on this board. Any PMs asking for assistance will be ignored.

                    Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                      If the fuse is good (it will measure less than 1.0 ohms), then check the mosfets just right of the 2 inverter transformers to see if they are shorted.

                      If you need help testing them, list the mosfet part number, and find its datasheet (with URL).
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                        #12
                        Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                        Originally posted by PlainBill View Post
                        Continue this thread. Have you checked the fuse for the inverter (F200)?

                        PlainBill
                        I have checked the fuse, and it checks out as it's supposed to, < 1Ω. Reads right at .9Ω to be exact




                        Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                        check the mosfets just right of the 2 inverter transformers to see if they are shorted.

                        If you need help testing them, list the mosfet part number, and find its datasheet (with URL).
                        I assume you are talking about these (referring to the Mosfets) ? http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...0cfp&x=16&y=17

                        I only ask because (referencing from my pic), the Inverter transformers are on the top left (above the large cap), yes ? The 2 other electrical components just to the right of them, I do not identify as Mosfets (though my knowledge is limited with these things).

                        I identified the Mosfets to be the link above, which are on the other side of the board (far right side mounted along the heat sink). If you could clarify just a smidgen, I think I can take it from there. And I will post my results Thanks

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                          The mosfets are the 8 pin ICs just under the label that says E230374. Normally, I would give PCB designations, but your photo isn't sharp enough to read.
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                            #14
                            Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                            Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                            The mosfets are the 8 pin ICs just under the label that says E230374. Normally, I would give PCB designations, but your photo isn't sharp enough to read.
                            Thanks RC


                            I will see what I can do and up my results once I am done. LOL, also, I will try upping pics with a better camera next time.
                            Last edited by Nicks84; 03-09-2011, 11:03 PM.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                              Originally posted by Nicks84 View Post
                              If you search this forum for AOP605, some of had problems with this chip.

                              You might as well test the ones on the backside because I'm sure someone will ask for those test results as well.
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                                #16
                                Re: Testing Fets

                                Originally posted by Nicks84 View Post
                                Thanks RC


                                I will see what I can do and up my results once I am done. LOL, also, I will try upping pics with a better camera next time.
                                It never dawned on me to ask you how I was supposed to determined if they are shorted. I can ohm them out, I know, but I'm slighty unfamiliar with its data sheet. I'm not sure how many readings I should take. Should I test for voltage or just stick with impedance? And should I removed the component or test in the circuit? Do I just ohm out in the board first, then go from there based upon that data?

                                Also, concerning the Fets (not the ones by the inerter trans) I think I got those under control. Thanks.

                                Also, in the event that I need other pics, i got much better pics. Should I replace them with the original or would I have to up new ones?

                                Comment

                                  #17
                                  Re: Testing Fets

                                  Originally posted by Nicks84 View Post
                                  It never dawned on me to ask you how I was supposed to determined if they are shorted.
                                  See post 13, point #2 at

                                  https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10419
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                                    #18
                                    Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                                    Originally posted by retiredcaps View Post
                                    check the mosfets just right of the 2 inverter transformers to see if they are shorted. If you need help testing them, list the mosfet part number, and find its datasheet (with URL).
                                    Ok, I tried. My readings are as follows, for

                                    *All readings were with components in the board, not powered.*

                                    Mosfet U202

                                    a) black on (pin 3) S1- red on pin G1: .6 Ω (pin 4)
                                    b) black on (pin 3) S1- red on pin D1: OL & OL (pin 5 & 6)
                                    c) black on (pin 4) G1- red on pin D1: OL & OL (pin 5 & 6)

                                    Repeat for the "2" pins. That is:
                                    (pin 1) S2-G2: .6 Ω (pin2)
                                    (pin 1) S2-D2: OL & OL (pin 7 & 8)
                                    (pin 2) G2-D2: OL & OL (pin 7 & 8)



                                    Mosfet U203: All readings identical to that of U202

                                    Can we (lol, or you, rather) tell from this data if removing the component for further testing is necessary? I think I did it right.

                                    Also, would it not be a good idea to use a diode check and test for necessary Voltage drop (.5-.7V)? I only ask because I know you can do that in circuit and my meter does have a diode check. I would've already done that, but the schematic on the data page is slightly foreign to me, as there are 2 D1's and 2 D2's. But I do know a few values to expect, but that's about it.
                                    Attached Files
                                    Last edited by Nicks84; 03-18-2011, 11:25 AM.

                                    Comment

                                      #19
                                      Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                                      Originally posted by Nicks84 View Post
                                      Ok, I tried. My readings are as follows, for

                                      *All readings were with components in the board, not powered.*

                                      Mosfet U202

                                      a) black on (pin 3) S1- red on pin G1: .6 O (pin 4)
                                      b) black on (pin 3) S1- red on pin D1: OL & OL (pin 5 & 6)
                                      c) black on (pin 4) G1- red on pin D1: OL & OL (pin 5 & 6)

                                      Repeat for the "2" pins. That is:
                                      (pin 1) S2-G2: .6 O (pin2)
                                      (pin 1) S2-D2: OL & OL (pin 7 & 8)
                                      (pin 2) G2-D2: OL & OL (pin 7 & 8)



                                      Mosfet U203: All readings identical to that of U202

                                      Can we (lol, or you, rather) tell from this data if removing the component for further testing is necessary? I think I did it right.

                                      Also, would it not be a good idea to use a diode check and test for necessary Voltage drop (.5-.7V)? I only ask because I know you can do that in circuit and my meter does have a diode check. I would've already done that, but the schematic on the data page is slightly foreign to me, as there are 2 D1's and 2 D2's. But I do know a few values to expect, but that's about it.


                                      I you're reading only 0.6 ohms across S1-G1 and S2-G2, that would indicate it's shorted. You may have to remove from board and retest.

                                      Comment

                                        #20
                                        Re: Needs caps for my 22" lcd

                                        Originally posted by Nicks84 View Post
                                        a) black on (pin 3) S1- red on pin G1: .6 O (pin 4)

                                        Repeat for the "2" pins. That is:
                                        (pin 1) S2-G2: .6 O (pin2)
                                        Both mosfets seem to be shorted (the 0.6 ohms reading) and need to be replaced. Desolder both and retest to verify the 0.6 ohms reading.

                                        If you get the same reading out of circuit, order AOP605 off ebay.com since Digikey.com has no stock.
                                        Last edited by retiredcaps; 03-18-2011, 11:25 AM.
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