Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

[madan1]

Hi everyone.
Anyone else had seen this problem? Recently I got Onkyo TX-SR309 which has audible clicks when the volume is changed.
The click appears both when the volume is operated by the knob and the remote control.
From the service manual I got the following diagram:

rotary knob -> CPU ( MPD70F3746 )-> pre-out switch / tone controller ( R2A15218FP ) -> amp

From what I get from the pinout of R2A15218FP ( which indeed is a very common controller ), the control over all functions is done only through one signal line - pin 49 VOLDATA + pin50 VOLCLOCK.
And since this controller is on the bottom of the main amp board and before I can get my hands on it, I'll have to dismantle everything, it will be great to have in mind at least few guidelines .

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

So post the service manual so we can take a look.

[Longbow]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Well, you have to look at the analog part - line output to the amp. Clicking and popping on a switched signal line is caused by unwanted d.c. EVC's can fail like this so replacing it would be a reasonable first step.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Oh, sorry - my bad. Attached is the service manual ( courtesy to hifiengine ).

@Longbow The pop happens only when the volume level is changed. The volume is changed within the R2A15218FP ( pg 6 from the service manual ).

p.s. Probably I should have also mentioned that the clicks appear on both speakers and headphones.



major P.S.

ho-ho-ho... look what I found:

IC101 is a Renesas R2A15218FP analogue multiplexer and volume control, with a gain range of +42 to
-95dB in 0.5dB steps. It is digitally controlled from the system microprocessor via the I2C bus on pins 49
and 50. A high logic signal on pin 51 enables the system mute. IC101 has +/- 7V supplies generated from
the +/-15V rails with the regulators IC102 and IC103.
All stereo external line level inputs using phono sockets are routed to IC101 via 100R/220pF low pass
CR filters. IC101 also handles the AUX-L, AUX-R and the (mono) MIC_SIGNAL setup microphone inputs
coming from the front panel, plus the internal stereo outputs from AM/FM tuners (TUN-L and TUN-R)
and the DAB/ethernet receiver (VENICE_L and VENICE_R). IC101 additionally switches two multichannel
signals - the 8 channel direct input and the outputs from the 8 post-DAC filters. Note that the +/- 7V
power supply limits the input signals to approximately 4V rms before overload occurs.

The post-DAC filters comprise 4 low noise NJM2068 dual op amps, running from the +/- 7V supplies.
One op amp is assigned to each channel and performs the dual functions of converting a differential
input from the DAC to a single ended output, whilst simultaneously functioning as a three pole 50kHz
active filter.
IC101 has a fixed level stereo output for Zone 2 (SUB_L and SUB_R) and a second one, adjustable from
0dB to -18dB in 6dB steps, for the AVR400's analogue to digital converter (ADC_L and ADC_R).

IC101 has one 8 channel variable level output bus labelled VOL01 through to VOL08. Capacitors C295-8
and C231-4 float the ground ends of the associated internal potentiometers to minimize clicks This bus
goes via specially selected 100μF/25V capacitors to the dual op amps IC121-124, wired as voltage follow-
ers and running from the +/- 15V supplies.

The C, SL, SR, SBL and SBR outputs are shunt muted when required via the 560R resistors R383-388 and the dual transistors Q303-305.
The subwoofer output SW has two shunt mute circuits. One using Q311 works in parallel with the rest of
the channels. The other, using Q308 and half of Q303 allows muting of the SW channel alone.
The FL and FR channels take off the stereo headphones amplifier feed from IC121 (it goes via the con-
nector WF101 to the Front Panel Board), then add an extra dual voltage follower IC125 and a double
pole shunt mute switch using 4 x 270R resistors and Q301-302. All the above ICs are JRC NJM2068s or
equivalent.
All 8 of these outputs go to via the connector WF103 to the preamplifier output sockets and (except for
the subwoofer output) to the 7 power amplifier inputs located on the Main Board.
The ADC input amplifiers use a JRC NJM2068 for each channel, operating as a single-ended input to
differential output converter, with HF filtering above about 400kHz. This is sμFficient for anti-aliasing
purposes as the analogue modulator of the ADC samples at 6.144 MHz and only needs to keep out
frequencies above 6MHz.
The array of 12 switching transistors in the bottom right hand corner of the schematic is arranged in
4 blocks of 3 devices (two npn and one pnp per block). The array is used to control the muting of 4
specific groups of audio outputs, taking into account the presence of AC mains via P_U (the pull up line
from the Power Supply board) and the MUTE_POWER line derived from the power amplifiers' Vcc rail
– this is normally high when Vcc is high. The output lines are SB_MUTE2 (for the surround back chan-
nels SBL and SBR), ZONE2_MUTE2, HP_MUTE2 (for the headphones relay on the Front Panel board) and
FUNC_MUTE2 (for the 6 main audio channels excluding SBL and SBR).
Zone 2 volume is independently adjustable in 1dB steps via IC131 (rohm BD3812F). Its outputs are
bμFfered and amplified 15dB by the dual op amp IC132 and can be muted when required by Q402. The
output goes directly to two phono sockets forming half of JK11 on the back panel.

The caps converted to tx-sr309 are c0450-54 and c4057 ( page 6 from the service manual ) which all have common AGND.

So I will check if that clicks appear on all channels and if so - find the problem with the ground ( I really doubt that many caps to have gone, but... ).

[Longbow]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

You have quoted the description of a typical digital volume control chip. Just because it mentions the word capacitor, doesn't mean you have found your problem. Of course the unit clicks on a level change - the analog amps output a big d.c. jump in addition to the program information. The fact that both channels click and pop argues against a faulty electrolytic (from a logical standpoint). If the circuit can be reached without full disassembly, the first thing to do is confirm that your +/- supplies are correct, since those are the things that keep the amps running at 0 volts d.c. If the power supplies look ok, then replace the chip.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Indeed the quote is for the same chip - R2A15218FP.
According to the pcb schematics ( pg 15 ) the +/-7 lines are accessible from the top of the board ( J4161 and J4169 ), so yes - will check them before tearing it apart.
By the way, I already had noise issue with that unit, which was fixed by resoldering the filter smd caps between the DAC and the volume/tone control chip R2A15218FP . Back then I also checked the voltages but only on the control board. If I remember correctly, the low voltages are coming from an extra board between the main and the control boards through cables, so good voltage on the control doesn't necessary mean the same for the main amp board.
Now I'm looking for possible issues that are not so obvious as low/bad voltage.

So you are saying that if the +/-V are within the limits and that clicks appear in more than 1 channel the odds are for faulty R2A15218FP? Man, I thought that chips were indestructible .
Alrighty then - I'll try to find some time in the next couple of days to troubleshoot the unit and then I'll report here

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Lets start with does it do it on both channels L and R? If it does it on L and R does it do it on all channel outputs? Does it do it on all inputs?

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

left and right, speaker and headphones - yes
all inputs - I have checked only the analog line ins
all routings ( stereo, direct, pure direct, etc. ) - yes

have to check the surround speakers

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

left and right, speaker and headphones - yes
all inputs - I have checked only the analog line ins
all routings ( stereo, direct, pure direct, etc. ) - yes

have to check the surround speakers

so I would suspect the surround sound would do it. Does your Mute work?

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Hi everyone.
Anyone else had seen this problem? Recently I got Onkyo TX-SR309 which has audible clicks when the volume is changed.
The click appears both when the volume is operated by the knob and the remote control.
From the service manual I got the following diagram:

rotary knob -> CPU ( MPD70F3746 )-> pre-out switch / tone controller ( R2A15218FP ) -> amp

From what I get from the pinout of R2A15218FP ( which indeed is a very common controller ), the control over all functions is done only through one signal line - pin 49 VOLDATA + pin50 VOLCLOCK.
And since this controller is on the bottom of the main amp board and before I can get my hands on it, I'll have to dismantle everything, it will be great to have in mind at least few guidelines .

Which volume control are you increasing as it looks like each speaker has a volume control? Or are they all tied together at one pot with multiple connections?

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Also, have you try to reset receiver to factory defaults? Are you able to adjust volume for each speaker separately and then the volume level of all together? Can you specify the speaker size on the smaller speakers and the crossover point? Does your receiver have Q302 as this is a common component of all channels? Has your receiver had the update of components that happened mid production? When you adjust total volume and watching it on the display what happens when this click noise happens? Are you able to adjust tone from treble to bass?

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

update -
mute works and I was surprised that it is not applied by the speaker relays ( like with technics, denon... ) but on signal level.

I made some tests with the surr. + center and did not hear the clicks.

The clicks appear on the A and B left and right when operating the master volume ( operated by the rotary knob and the remote control ). I haven't tried changing the speaker levels... yet.

No I have not tried to reset it... I do not know how.. In the service manual there are only schematics, but no instructions on how to reset or access service menus ( anyone? )

"Can you specify the speaker size on the smaller speakers and the crossover point?" - really no idea, just testing it either with some small old surrounds or a 10" hertz driver which can take all the power without blowing ... and the reliable AKG headphones.... but if you mean the units speaker settings - all speakers are set to large, sub off, xover 40hz


q302 you say.. hmm nope.. I do not see it on the pcb (see pics)

"Has your receiver had the update of components that happened mid production?" - I'm not sure about that update.. Is it the transistor->integral update? See the attached pics with the hardware.

"When you adjust total volume and watching it on the display what happens when this click noise happens?" - the volume value changes with ONE unit... one click = one unit, two clicks = two units...

"Are you able to adjust tone from treble to bass?" - yes, works fine.

I'll try to record and upload the clicks.


and by the way - does anyone know how to access the service menu ( if any ).. I got few shutdowns when trying the max volume so wondered if there are any errors recorded.



p.s. and while I have the hood open, why not measure the +/-7V on the power amp board ( which the output chip uses ).
+7 - +6.83V @J4161
-7 - -6.93V @j4169
and 12s
+12 - +12.04 @q4170
-12 - -12.23 @q4171



p.s.2

Well, now this is really odd...and helpful ... after few hours of working ( in background with very low volume and only one speaker connected to a surround channel ) now the click has almost disappear. It is audible only on the headphones and only on the right channel. ( edit: my bad - it is still audible on the speaker, but not as noticeable as before ).

p.s. 3
I managed to record the click ( see attached ). Even though it sounds very "hardware".. it is not. This is what came out of the speaker as sound. The volume knob for instance does not make any sounds or clicks when turned.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

So on the recorded sound with-in the first couple of seconds there is a higher frequency clink is this the sound you are talking about? The mute is just bringing the signal to ground you have two mutes Z2 mute and mute.

I have attached owners manual. On page 5 it references the factory reset on how to do. I will also explain operation of speaker size if you look.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

12V has 4.2 % tolerance. Do you have the data sheet on R2A15218FP

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

The clicks after 10s are those I'm talking about ( max up the volume to hear them, they sound like mouse scroll wheel ). Before that there are some extra noises from the phone's mic touching the speaker's mesh cover.
The mute surprised me because all other receivers/amps I've seen also disconnect the speaker lines when the mute is activated (technics, teac, denons, etc ) while this onkyo only uses the internal circuit mutes.
Tomorrow I will do the reset.

Previously I've read about that, in my opinion totally useless feature about "the speaker size". From what I remember, all it does is to filter the lower freqs. Tomorrow will recheck the user manual though.

My usual sound setup has 4x3-way ( lower 8", mids ?" and tweeter; I guess nowadays are called "large" speakers, but for me are just normal ones ) + passive ( 10" ) or active ( 12" ) subwoofer. tomorrow will hook it up to the onkyo to hear its full beauty.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

The clicks after 10s are those I'm talking about ( max up the volume to hear them, they sound like mouse scroll wheel ). Before that there are some extra noises from the phone's mic touching the speaker's mesh cover.
The mute surprised me because all other receivers/amps I've seen also disconnect the speaker lines when the mute is activated (technics, teac, denons, etc ) while this onkyo only uses the internal circuit mutes.
Tomorrow I will do the reset.

Previously I've read about that, in my opinion totally useless feature about "the speaker size". From what I remember, all it does is to filter the lower freqs. Tomorrow will recheck the user manual though.

My usual sound setup has 4x3-way ( lower 8", mids ?" and tweeter; I guess nowadays are called "large" speakers, but for me are just normal ones ) + passive ( 10" ) or active ( 12" ) subwoofer. tomorrow will hook it up to the onkyo to hear its full beauty.

It is amazing what these engineers have done for small speaker design. My Dads stereo speakers cabinet he made in 1968 had 15" woofers with I believe mid range 8 " cones and 2" tweeter.

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Alrighty.. the unut is resetted.
I was able to finally locate the click... it appears ONLY ON ONE CHANNEL and is about 110-120hz ( that's why I had troubles "finding it" with the lousy test surround speaker ). It is most audible when "direct" routing is used. On few of the other modes it still can e heard but way not that loud. On direct it is even visible on the speaker membrane movement of the 8" low-mid.

"12V has 4.2 % tolerance. Do you have the data sheet on R2A15218FP"

Sorry, yesterday missed that post.
Today I found the closest thing to a datasheet for that puppy - https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...1a31e004e0.pdf
If smone has a reliable server, it will be a good idea to upload it there, since this output controller seems to be very common in the receivers.

The power supply should be 6,5~7,5 +/-V, so I guess I'm fine?

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

Alrighty.. the unut is resetted.
I was able to finally locate the click... it appears ONLY ON ONE CHANNEL and is about 110-120hz ( that's why I had troubles "finding it" with the lousy test surround speaker ). It is most audible when "direct" routing is used. On few of the other modes it still can e heard but way not that loud. On direct it is even visible on the speaker membrane movement of the 8" low-mid.

"12V has 4.2 % tolerance. Do you have the data sheet on R2A15218FP"

Sorry, yesterday missed that post.
Today I found the closest thing to a datasheet for that puppy - https://cdn.badcaps-static.com/pdfs/...1a31e004e0.pdf
If smone has a reliable server, it will be a good idea to upload it there, since this output controller seems to be very common in the receivers.


The power supply should be 6,5~7,5 +/-V, so I guess I'm fine?

Do you have an Oscilloscope? You would be able to measure this noise and where it is coming from. I am thinking that it could be a timing problem between the PWM supply and the signal to increase the volume. Two other possibilities (1) a grounding problem on the signal ground somewhere. (2) EMI

[madan1]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

"Do you have an Oscilloscope?" - kind of... just finished one of those http://www.jyetech.com/Products/LcdScope/138C_01a.jpg

I found some time to break apart the unit and replace the C4050 and C4051 caps ( manual page 6 ). Unfortunately without any positive effect.. so I installed back the original audio grade caps.
I also found the hard way that the unit will not work unless all pcbs have the common ground from the back plate, which makes the troubleshooting a nightmare!
While I had the business side of the main pcb in hand, I reflowed the output chip and the associated passive components ( + some pre-amps and power regulators ). Still no positive result.

[keeney123]

Re: Onkyo TX-SR309 - clicks on volume change.

"Do you have an Oscilloscope?" - kind of... just finished one of those http://www.jyetech.com/Products/LcdScope/138C_01a.jpg

I found some time to break apart the unit and replace the C4050 and C4051 caps ( manual page 6 ). Unfortunately without any positive effect.. so I installed back the original audio grade caps.
I also found the hard way that the unit will not work unless all pcbs have the common ground from the back plate, which makes the troubleshooting a nightmare!
While I had the business side of the main pcb in hand, I reflowed the output chip and the associated passive components ( + some pre-amps and power regulators ). Still no positive result.

Yea I think at this point you may need the Oscope. The interference is low frequency so you might be able to trace it back with a rather slow scope , however if it is a timing problem the trigger to it could be happening quickly.