Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

[madan1]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

OK, so here are the images... this time uploaded here... no 3rd party hosting
So back to the question - do you think there is any life left in the receiver
Unfortunately, I do not have the skills nor the equipment to safely remove the surface mounted chips and read them

[madan1]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Sorry, I was not aware I could upload big images here. In most places they do not allow posting ( and uploading ) high resolution imgs ( 800x600 limit ), so I did what I do all the time - used img hosting. Anyway, later I'll try to upload the full res pics.

[Agent24]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Well, it would be nice if you could upload some full size pictures instead of hotlinking to thumbnails.

[madan1]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi everyone.
Recently I bought AVR 2113 with "so sound" problem. When I got it I noticed that the +7 and +5 were little lower and thought that after fixing it the receiver will start working... mm right.. a few new caps and the voltages got right, but still no sound.
The receiver goes through the initial check, clicks the channel relays and.. silence. It does not meter analog or digital source. When I hook up earphones to the preamp cables there is a very low level sound ( CD input from a player with maxed up volume ) and sound on digital input.. so I guess the preamp chip is just leaking.
Also no HDMI output.
The receiver's web GUI was ok. And then I just decided to update the firmware.... hooked it to the router, started the update procedure, it downloaded the firmware and started installing it. I guess you already know where I'm going ... yep.. that's right.. it stopped on the "status:mainOK" ( or something similar ) screen. I waited for another 30 minutes, but nothing happened. Rebooted the receiver and it just kept retrying to update.
If it is connected to the Internet, it goes for about a minute or two with "retry update >>>" and then clicks the speaker relays off and dies with the screen on. If it is not connected it shows "no connection" error and dies. Well.. about 30 minutes after I got the receiver bricked I found that topic ( what a luck, right? ).
I reheated/resoldered all chip connections on the top and back of the logic board with iron, but it didn't change anything... guess it was too late.
So what I think happened - the root of the problem was a failed memory chip, but to make the things more entertaining there were a few dying caps ( oh, and the main amp caps do not look very well, but for now they are good enough ). Then when it tried to write the new firmware everything screwed up.
Do you think there is any hope for fixing this receiver or I just should throw away every fu$#%$ng digital bit out of it and convert it to a simple 6 channel amplifier?

p.s. I tried updating the firmware with e USB stick, but when I try to start the procedure ( status + ch- + power ) it dies on the initialization procedure with blinking red light.


Here are some photos of what is inside ( don't mind the bridge on the pins of the memory chip, I fixed it after the pic was taken ):












and here is the service manual ( courtesy to hifiengine.com )
http://www.filedropper.com/hfedenona...3ciservicev6en

[buglitter]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Thanks for looking into it!!! I'll keep a look out for them. Perhaps I'll just order the ones from China and give them a shot. After all they aren't expensive! Will keep you posted.

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Had a look into it, and I am sorry.....we do not have the chip

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Cool you found some ! I had a look today, but only found some in the SOIC package, so surface mount
Tomorrow I will have a look for the other one.
IF i have one, maybe it's a good plan to mail me the dump, so i can flash it for you. Makes it all so much more easy, right?

I'll keep you posted!

[buglitter]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi sparx_59,

Fortunately I was able to get a couple of these bad boys from a local repair shop. However, I still need 1 of these suckers (for Denon AVR-5700)

Brand: Toshiba
Type: Flash (Top Boot Block)
Marking: TC58FVT800FT
Package: TSOP48

This is the same IC that has been used on AVR-3300 (I believe).

If you were able to find them, please give me a holler!!!

Thanks

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

I'll have a look this week. Maybe I have some. I'll program and erase them to test. After that I can send you some if you'd like.
If so, please let me know what shape you need, ok ?

[buglitter]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi Hi sparx_59,

My guess was accurate! Yesterday I decided to do a ROM dump, and both ROMs read and verified OK. A closer look at the chip revealed evidence of oxidation, so I decided to clean them up with ether. After securing them back into the sockets, the receiver works as suppose to. I've spent more than 4 hours testing all functions, using different sources, ie. DD, DTS, 5.1 External Analog, 2CH analog. They all work!!! As this point, I conclude that oxidation to the flash IC has caused problems related to DSP audio processing.

While working on this receiver, I've noticed evidence of high temp, but I didn't find any cold solder joints or cracks. Hence I'm 99.9% sure of my conclusion. I've already saved the ROM (just in case), but still can't find a US source for the replacement ICs. Aliexpress (China source) has them, but possessively they're counterfeits.

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hey buglitter

I agree with you about chips on sockets....oxidation can be a problem after time.
I would read every chip several times to see if the data is the same avery time.
If it is, chances are you can write some fresh ones wich will work in circuit.
This way sou end up with clean leads and fresh flash chips.
In my experience, those suckers go from good to bad very fast when problems start, so I would do it soon if I where you. Maybe you're able to get your hands on a working amp, and copy those roms....Eitherway it goes, I hope it works.

Good luck!

[buglitter]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Hi sparx_59,

Your discovery shed light into the way we troubleshoot such a complex receiver.
What I have in possession is a Denon AVR-5800 which doesn't process DSP but works fine in Pure Direct and Stereo mode. I've checked the unit thoroughly but still can't find the source of the problem. I know the problem has to be related to the DSP ICs but never thought about the possible corrupted firmware.
On AVR-5800, the DSP board has 2 REMOVABLE flash chips "SHARP LH28F800BVE-BTL90". These chips are secured in sockets, and they can be removed very easily. At this time, I'm quite busy to mess with this problem, but soon will try to do a ROM dump to find out whether they are okay or corrupted. Although it's possible that the chips or roms are bad, it's more likely that oxidation has caused bad connections between the leads of the chips and the contacts of the sockets (they aren't gold-plated). Sometimes removing and reinserting the chips simply cured the problem. I'll find out when I work on it, and will update you all when I got the results.

In all, thank you for sharing your work!

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Kudos to you for helping out the community in this way.

My pleasure

[mmartell]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Kudos to you for helping out the community in this way.

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Since i have got so much reply's on this fix, I have made a new email address, so please mail your questions to : pcb-fix@hotmail.com
That way i can help even faster

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

hey

i have an denon avr-2802.
I have the problem that I do not get a digital signal more. Sometimes the switch it goes off and on. I suspect the Atmel AT49LV002-90TC chip is broken. they know where I get my or they still have a

You've got mail

[badboy181185]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

hey

i have an denon avr-2802.
I have the problem that I do not get a digital signal more. Sometimes the switch it goes off and on. I suspect the Atmel AT49LV002-90TC chip is broken. they know where I get my or they still have a

[sparx_59]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

WOW....nice replies on this subject, I love it

Since law forbids lead containing solder, we electronics ppl have been given problems we do not want. The finished solder is ( often with BGA's ) waiting to crack. Like you mentioned, high temps and cooling down is the cause of this.

The glue underneath the components however, is necessary when the board is soldered in a solder flow bath, preventing the components from falling off. It should not be on the leads

Removing components is indeed tricky, but on boards with the quality of the DSP in the denon, one can safely remove components using hot air or with a lot of solder. Most components can be put to flowing temps more then once without damaging the part. It should be in the specs, but I use a rule of thumb not to solder/desolder the same part more then 3 times.

Putting the part back is : remove part, remove solder ( wick ) , clean with alcohol, put on new (leaded) solder, put on flux, place component and heat it up. The component should align itself when solder reaches flow temp. After cooling off, clean with alcolhol.

And since I am very old, all this takes place under a microscope. Young ppl however, do it without any visual aid

I know a lot of ppl reading all this are aware of all this, but some do not , so maybe they learn something new

[Agent24]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

At least an EEPROM is fairly replaceable. What's worse than a bad EEPROM? A bad EEPROM inside your microcontroller! You can't even get the part half the time and good luck programming it, even if you can get the ROM image. /rant

[Longbow]

Re: Denon avr 2802 with no sound on speaker

Thanks for the feedback. Whenever someone gets this deeply into a malfunction I am totally impressed. But, it also makes me curious how many other similar failures are due to aging ROMS and EEPROMS. Older HP test equipment collectors are making copies of the ROM chips because so many units are bricked. The official Denon position is that a warranty item will get the whole PCB. If out of warranty, the cost of the PCB is more than a new unit.

Not only are these chips very difficult to desolder/resolder, but I know of a number of cases that fooled me in the past. This is how yellow glue was discovered. Malfunction. Some pins on the chip were covered with glue. Once the chip was replaced, everything worked OK. The same goes for the glue often used to secure the IC to the PCB. If anyone is brave enough, it would be fun to remove the chip, clean the board, and put the same one back in to prove it is faulty (well, maybe use a socket). In this day of politically correct solder, you can't really be sure of anything - i.e. whiskers, etc.

The Jen-Air oven syndrome doesn't use exotic circuitry, yet the EEPROM does seem to be the culprit and there are thousands of them that fail. In that case, the whole control board is subjected to high heat and I imagine that will speed the failure of any memory chip. The inside of an amplifier runs hot, so we may have the same failure mode as in the oven.