Zero to Expert in pcb design

[captainKKK]

Is Altium the best pcb design software or is there better?

[mariushm]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

Depends on your needs. For some niches some tools are better than others.

For simple boards, KiCad, DipTrace, even Eagle could be good enough.

For more complex stuff, there's other players in the market like Zuken (Sony likes them) or PADS from Mentor, or Orcad ...

[captainKKK]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

I want a program that will auto check my design for mistakes in my selection of components and design, is there anything out there that does that?

[redwire]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

No, I'm afraid you'll actually have to do some work.
Nothing will auto-check a design beyond the wiring (netlist) and some basic spacings and clearance.
PCB CAD programs are all very basic. Every component footprint you have to check and verify yourself unless you can afford expensive third-party libraries. Knowing how to route traces for high speed, to avoid noise and EMC, you learn the hard way. A few books are on PCB design but the CAD programs are still quite stupid and don't have AI yet.

[5chematic]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

Sprint-Layout is good, I have used it a few times to create a few boards.

[stj]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

bit of advice,
pick the software that has the largest component library - preferably with the ability to add user/3rd party library's

i use eaglecad for that reason.
version 7.7 - the last version before it got raped in the ass by the AutoDesk takeover!!

[captainKKK]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

Seems that Altium Designer has the largest libraries available

[budm]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

How complex is the board that you are trying to design?
Altium is not cheap.

[Curious.George]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

Knowing how to route traces for high speed, to avoid noise and EMC, you learn the hard way.

Actually, they are getting smarter. They also tackle things like packaging, thermal analysis, etc. And, many now offer some of the tools that you will need to do high-speed layouts that are tedious/impossible to do without! (e.g., balancing trace lengths to minimize skew between signals).

pick the software that has the largest component library - preferably with the ability to add user/3rd party library's

Pick the tool that has the best capability for creating your own symbols. And, make sure you understand the "rules" and mechanics behind symbol creation (e.g., why there are "input" pins and "output" pins -- regardless of where they exist on the device). Every vendor will have some "basic" library components so, if you're doing a trivial design, it won't matter much. But, you WILL need to create some symbols of your own, for at least some of your components -- either because they aren't supported in the "standard" libraries or because you want a visually different symbol/footprint than whatever the library designer had envisioned.

How complex is the board that you are trying to design?
Altium is not cheap.

Not only is it "not cheap" in a monetary sense but it is also not cheap in terms of the investment required to learn/use it.

If you're just doing one or two boards, pick "whatever is cheapest" -- or, farm it out to a service bureau. Only make the investment in the tool if this is a skill you want/NEED to develop and think you will have an ongoing set of future projects to justify the cost/investment you'll be making.

[I deliberately hold off hardware designs and board layouts until I have several that need to be done. Clustering them, like this, lets me amortize the RE-learning required (to get back up to speed with the tools) over multiple designs. Otherwise, you spend a lot of time trying to remember the quirks of each particular tool -- only to forget it, again, before you get around to the next design.]

[[ALL EDA packages have bugs. Familiarity with your package (from actual USE) helps you remember which "wacky behaviors" are the result of YOU doing something incorrectly vs. the tool screwing up ("known bug")]]

[captainKKK]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

I kinda like Mentor Graphics PADS almost as well as Altrium. Proteus also has a lot to offer.

[Curious.George]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

I kinda like Mentor Graphics PADS almost as well as Altrium. Proteus also has a lot to offer.

Colleagues using Diptrace have had good things to say about it. YMMV

You have to decide what you want from the package. If you just want to layout some boards (and don't care about back annotating the schematic, etc.), then you have lots more choices than if you're trying to put together a whole package for Manufacturing.

My designs tend to be more complex and dense (6-8 layer padstack, components on both sides of the board, schematic sliced into several tiny boards which are "folder" together, etc.). So, I need the tools to handle lots of details that I could easily overlook.

For example, when the second "pane" of the board is folded behind the first, will any components on the BACK of the first pane mechanically interfere with components on the back of the second pane?

[captainKKK]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

Humm, Diptrace Full is only $995....I wonder if its Schemat Capture allows users to take a picture of any board and it will produce a likely pcb with components....? Is there anything out there with this capability? I like OrCad's licencing to VM, so I can take it anywhere.

[stj]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

that's not what schematic capture means.

[mariushm]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

Nobody does that, because nothing's smart enough to automatically figure out the number of layers a PCB has, and x-ray capability to figure out traces within internal layers.

Also, big components like transformers or inductors or even electrolytic capacitors can hide traces under their footprints making traces undetectable.

[captainKKK]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

You mean smart enough yet.....
How long do you think a chinese expert would take to conceive a new computer motherboard design and take it from design to production?
Did you know, Intel has a free tool called Embedded Board Planner? Through a web interface, you can for example design your own Intel Atom based processor board....https://www.fedevel.com/welldoneblog...6-motherboard/

[Curious.George]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

Humm, Diptrace Full is only $995....I wonder if its Schemat Capture allows users to take a picture of any board and it will produce a likely pcb with components....? Is there anything out there with this capability? I like OrCad's licencing to VM, so I can take it anywhere.

I've hacked COTS packages to "assist" in building a schematic from scans of top and bottom layers of (4 layer) boards (the assumption being that internal planes only route power and that can be added to a schematic/netlist "by hand"). Basically, you ask the tools (schematic capture + layout) to identify "layout errors" based on the schematic that you've been incrementally building.

(This is where having LOTS of display real estate pays off! Open schematic on one monitor, layout on another and have a third/fourth to call up datasheets for specific components on the board)

This is 100 times better than tracing foils by eye. But, still increibly labor intensive! What it really buys you is some reassurance that you haven't confused yourself (again!) when you flipped the board over to see where a signal at a particular feedthru continues along...

[stj]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

you dont trace foils, you create a netlist from the component pins.

[Curious.George]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

you dont trace foils, you create a netlist from the component pins.

Without resorting to building a custom, one-off test fixture of pogo pins to electrically probe the (depopulated) PCB, can you tell me another method of doing that -- other than what I've described?? :>

Or, do you think manually probing every combination of pin-pairs with for continuity is a RELIABLE way of doing this?

[stj]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

it's been reliable for me manually probing and building a netlist - i'v reversed some pretty large boards with many dozens of chips on them.

[Curious.George]

Re: Zero to Expert in pcb design

it's been reliable for me manually probing and building a netlist - i'v reversed some pretty large boards with many dozens of chips on them.

So, how do you find EVERY pin to which a particular net connects -- "hope"?

You must have great digital dexterity and eyesight to hold probes on SMT pads without them slipping off and touching a neighboring pad (which would give you "bad data").

I trust the machine to get those things right so I don't have to waste my time (and risk inaccuracies in the result).