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Old 04-08-2005, 07:54 AM   #1
Neo2_000
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Default Higher Replacement Values

Quote:
The Bad Capacitor FAQ

7.3 What values of caps should I use to replace the ones on the board?

"You can increase the capacitance (uf) as you see fit ...................
So if we give some examples :............330uf 25V - These are seen on some boards like Gigabyte. You can probably replace with 1000uf 16V like we did on a few boards without problems"
Hmmm! This is interesting.

So from what you are saying - the standard capacitors are a minimum workable value only. Presumably just enough to smooth the power supply to an acceptable degree???

So there would be no problem in replacing say a 2700uF Cap with a 3300 one of the same voltage?

I would be interested in getting some feedback on this from anyone who has tried it or anyone who might offer some technical advice.

I have a bunch of higher value candidates that may be put to better use.

TIA,
Neo

Last edited by Neo2_000; 04-08-2005 at 08:00 AM..
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Old 04-08-2005, 08:50 AM   #2
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Hi Neo!

Aluminum oxide electrolytic capacitors with solid or liquid electolyte, which is what we're concerned about here, often have ratings of -20% to +50% or, in some cases, -50% to +100%. They are not highly precise in their values, do not respond rapidly to high-frequency (i.e., RF) changes, and are used for filtering purposes. In the applications for which these are intended, the requirements are sufficient capacitance, working voltage, and temperature rating. Other types of capacitors are used for highly precise values (e.g., tantalum), as would be required for timing applications, or high-frequency filtering (e.g., ceramic or non-polarized electrolytic). So as long as your anticipated replacement has equal or better ratings compared to the original part, and will fit the available space (which is usually a major consideration), it should be an acceptable choice.
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Old 04-08-2005, 02:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
2700uF Cap with a 3300 one of the same voltage?
you should have no probs. the real problem is space and additional cost of the higher rated cap. tried and tested
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Old 04-08-2005, 08:05 PM   #4
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Thanks for your replies,

The ones I have are slavaged from other boards.

Usually they are Sacons or Sanyo's in the higher value range (1500u - 3300u) adjacent to the cpu socket and of good quality.

Since they rarely suffer from the probelms of the lesser quality caps, I typically end up with a surplus of them. They test out fine on the ESR meter so I am reasonably confident in using them.

And since you indicate that the nominal capacitance is not critical, they might be substituted for caps of a lesser value with an identical lead pitch.

In the extraordinary example quoted in the FAQ, the substituted value was 3 times the original cap value so it would seem that there is considerable latitude for substitution.

This could work out well for me by making new purchases unnecessary for similar larger values - I ahve just slashed my shopping list in half.

But I am still stuck with the probelm of the 1000u x 6.3v caps. These are by far the most common ones to go and I have only been able to find a single substitute with a lead pitch of 3.5mm from the Rubycon ZL series. At A$1.24 ea they will become rather expensive unless I cam find a more economical substitute. Some boards have 20 caps this size which are destined for failure but I pick my battles now and leave these ones alone.

It is interesting to note that the quality caps for this value are almost always physically larger in size, having a 5mm lead pitch. Perhaps their more robust construction is largely responsible for their relative longevity and reliability.

It may also suggest that manufacturers of badcaps have crossed a threshold here where the the physical construction of the cap is simply not up to the applied task.

Neo.
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Old 04-09-2005, 08:18 AM   #5
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Check the following website for an economical source of 1000μF, 10V, 8mm capacitors (good-quality 105C Rubycons or equal) - 40 cents or less each:
http://www.computekinc.us/prod01.htm

Last edited by AK0R; 04-09-2005 at 08:25 AM..
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Old 04-09-2005, 10:01 AM   #6
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Thanks,

Thsese would be about half the price of the local product here in Oz.

I have just emailed them for international shipping rates.

Hopefully it will still prove economical.

Neo.
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Old 04-13-2005, 05:15 AM   #7
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hmm. this answer my question @ another thread.. thanks!

oya, are there any thread with pics of good quality caps? are nichicon caps always have "nichicon" mark on it? what about panasonic or sanyo?
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Old 04-13-2005, 08:22 AM   #8
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I am not sure about Panasonics, but Rubycons, Nichicons ans Sanyo's are clearly branded on the plastic casing.

Judging by the part number the CEHFQ? capacitor you enquired about might just be a panasonic cap out of Japan.

The caps from Computek are economical. Even after freight, they are about A$0.83 landed compared to A$1.24 for the same local product.

Thanks Akor.

Neo.
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Old 04-13-2005, 11:19 AM   #9
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also this shop in China has OS-Cons, Rubycon MCZ, ZLH
http://www.waifong.com
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Old 04-13-2005, 04:20 PM   #10
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Thanks willawake,

Have you ordered from them in the past - no problems?

Neo.
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Old 04-14-2005, 12:05 AM   #11
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no i have not ordered from them, i found them while googling a while ago.

got one in Hong Kong also http://www.pcbulb.com or http://www.waifong.hk/

dunno why they sell only the high end new caps. Rubycon ZL series would be fine and cheaper. good prices for MCZ though.

Last edited by willawake; 04-14-2005 at 12:17 AM..
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Old 04-14-2005, 08:59 AM   #12
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Just paid for the caps.

The Singapore link was considerably cheaper than the Chinese link for some reason. But in the end, freight proved to be a killer to OZ - even more expensive than the damm order!

I finally placed my order with Computek in the U.S. which proved to be the most economical after freight was taken into account.

Thanks to all for the links.

Neo
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Old 04-14-2005, 11:45 AM   #13
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yeah world shopping is a PITA with freight and customs
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:28 AM   #14
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Quote:
I am not sure about Panasonics, but Rubycons, Nichicons ans Sanyo's are clearly branded on the plastic casing.

Judging by the part number the CEHFQ? capacitor you enquired about might just be a panasonic cap out of Japan.

The caps from Computek are economical. Even after freight, they are about A$0.83 landed compared to A$1.24 for the same local product.

Thanks Akor.

Neo.
Yea, those [M] (matshusita/panasonic?) CEHFQ caps are identic with FC ecxept the silver strip (FCs is gold strip). even the CEHFQ (or HFQ on value below 2200uF) have a small pink code just like the FC. I wonder if it is suitable for recaping my mobo..

also, i found this sanyo 1500uF 6.3V 10mm for replacing bad GSC 1200uF caps (epox mobo):

Sanyo 1500uF 6.3V 105C S.E.08 (green with gold strip/writting)

is this sanyo any good for my purpose?

what about this: [M] CE NHG 105C 2200uF 25V 12mm ? (for replacing GSC 2200uF on epox 8k3a & abit kt7)

those sanyo and Panasonics are about $0.4 - $0.5 each...

so far i have recaping my abit kt7 with 3300uF FC (the original caps are teapo 2200uF 6.3v/10v) and nichicon PL(M). those teapos have no sign of bad but now i can't do memtest-86 with no errors and folding@home (gromacs core) succesfully... just fyi

Last edited by yanz; 04-16-2005 at 02:31 AM..
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:52 AM   #15
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i mean i can do memtest-86 and fah (folding) without errors now (stabil) on kt7..
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Old 04-17-2005, 04:33 AM   #16
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Panasonic
Best to use FC, FA rather than NHG.
HFQ is old series replaced by FC

Quote:
now i can't do memtest-86 with no errors and folding@home (gromacs core) succesfully...
you could before the recapping or not?
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Old 04-19-2005, 05:10 AM   #17
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it couldn't pass the loop of memtest before i recap those five 2200uf (from total 13 caps). (i wasn't able to edit my post after 10 minutes )

So HFQ is good? This is something i found about HFQ (hope it's as good as FC):
http://www.overclockers.com/tips469

Quote:
Capacitors have different specifications - operating temperature, hours of life, low impedance, tangent of loss angle etc. Many motherboards (at least ASUS) use high quality, low impedance capacitors that have excellent high frequency characteristics; a common brand is Sanyo OS-CON. They supposedly age well and their properties do not change with time as they have different construction (organic semiconductor - OS) than the most common cheap aluminum electrolytics.

They are commonly used in DC-DC convertors or other types of power supply. If such a capacitor needs to be replaced, it should be by another that also has low impedance, and such are usually not sold in Radio Shack. These capacitors are so good that they're also sought by do-it-yourself audiophiles and they fetch a high price, although higher voltages (at least 15V) are required there, as opposed to 6.3V that's usually used on motherboards.

A reasonably good replacement would be Panasonic FC or older HFQ line, that can be obtained from Digikey.

Andrew - Vancouver, Canada.
Unfortunately i can't find the data of hfq on panasonic website..

I recap those 1500uF jackon with those sanyos i've been talking about in page 1, and the result is my mobo (kt7) won't post to bios. All fans and led are on but nothing else. Had to be something with that Sanyos. So i replaced some with 3300uf FC, the two original Jackon on slot AGP were replaced back (its 8mm diameter, my 3300uf FC won't fit), and the two 1500uf Jackon near slot sdram were replaced with combination of 3300uf + 1000uF (they both are paralel). It all works! So, the bottom line is, replacing 1500uf with 3300uf is fine, and replacing it with lower value is... fine too! (in my case it's just paralel with the exact same cap. So, maybe 3300uf + 1000uf <=> 1500uf + 1500uf)...

Last edited by yanz; 04-19-2005 at 05:13 AM..
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Old 04-19-2005, 05:20 AM   #18
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btw, i don't understand this chart: Comparison_HFQ-FC.pdf, instead of comparing HFQ with FC, it compares FA with FC?

how to read the data?
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Old 04-28-2005, 06:56 AM   #19
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Hi y'All,

Got my bag of caps from Computek USA yesterday (Just love getting stuff in the mail) - 60 caps mostly 1000 x 10V to play with. Couldn't wait so I pulled out an A-Open tualatin mobo out and proceeded to solder 10 new Rubycons the board.

It all went pretty well and boots OK. My experience with earlier trial runs has proved invaluable. Now for some P4 projects!

Neo.
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:56 AM   #20
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yeah, me too have success! i just try and only use this now:

rubycon mbz (1500uF 10mm 10v)
chemicon kzg (1500uF 8mm 6.3v)
panasonic fc (3300uf 12.5mm 10v, 100uf 10mm 10v), hfq (1500uf 12.5mm 16v)

and the mobo i have recapped:
epox 8k3a
shuttle mv19
abit kt7
ecs 741gx
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