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Old 10-15-2021, 12:26 PM   #1
sam_sam_sam
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Default SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Here is something that I just bought some of these

https://batteryhookup.com/products/2...hreaded-insert

for the battery stud welder that I also just bought from EBay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12473174466...53.m2749.l2649


I have not had time to test these batteries yet but I will probably do at least one of them over the weekend and I will post the results from the testing
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9 PC LCD Monitor
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10 Battery Charger Switching Power Supply for Power Tool
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These two repairs where found with a ESR meter...> Temp at 50*F then at 90*F the ESR reading more than 10%

1 Over Head Crane Current Sensing Board ( VFD Failure Five Years Later )
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All of these had CAPs POOF
All of the mosfet that are taken out by bad caps

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Old 10-16-2021, 07:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Well I have done some testing over night and the one I have tested has 8119 milliamperes hours
The test results was from the SkyRc IMAX b6 battery tester ( the battery hookup stated that your results would in a range of 8 to 9 amp hours so that what I got so far pleased with the results no heating issue at this charging rate )

I had the setup at 2 amp fast charging mode and it took about 4 hours to finish charging and a lot longer to discharge at 1.2 amps is the maximum discharge rate on this battery charger

Now I am doing a test on the battery testing machine that one I will post the results from the results are easier to read and more accurate results ( battery hookup uses the same battery testing machine for there results )

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Old 10-16-2021, 03:04 PM   #3
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Here are the results from the battery testing machine for the battery test that was done on the battery mentioned above

I would have gotten the same exact results if had charged the battery to 4.2 volts instead 4.1 however I was going out to grocery store shopping so I did not charge it at fast rate up to the 4.2 volts

I think that these batteries will work very well with the battery operated spot welder that I now have to modify and finish testing the rest of the batteries that I bought for this project

I am also going to buy four more set of 2 battery cells pre pack and replace the battery in my battery jumper battery pack that the battery when bad it

What you see on the work table is just one battery cell it comes two battery cells per pack

Looking at the results from the second battery cell it is looking like it results will be very similar ( to the first one that I tested earlier) that being tested on the SkyRc IMAX b6 battery tester now

The way I going to set this battery pack is one “P” cell X 3 “S” = 12.6 volt battery pack
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

i am interested in this stuff because its looking like i need to be getting it all myself .. am already amassing the faulty battery packs from a place i do electronic electric repairs for when its something beyond them ..
packs are either 80v or 82v .. basically the same inside different stickers outside .
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Old 10-16-2021, 05:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Just have to find a surplus battery supplier that you can trust what battery rating and if not delivered can you get reimbursed for your loss this is half the battle I have gotten lucky that I found a surplus supplier that I can trust

The other issue is testing batteries you have to have a battery tester machine that you can trust and understand the charging and discharging curves graphs that you are looking at

You can use a SkyRc IMAX b6 battery charger tester can be very useful for testing for heater cells which is very important to know from the beginning as you are charging them up if the battery voltage is below 3.00 volts ( you can do the same thing with this charger but it not as easy as it with the battery testing machine that I am taking about below)

But would also need a battery testing machine that I am using for looking at the charging and discharging curves graphs because what this tell you weather or not the battery cell has an issue or even before you finish the cycle

I have bought some medical battery packs that the cells are known to have this issue with them heating up when the cells are going bad now if you can get one amp hour from a cell that is rated three amp hour then you know that the battery cell is near the end of life I can just hook up a battery from this battery pack on this battery testing machine and I will know with in less than 5 minutes if these batteries in this pack has issues because I know what the charging curve is suppose to look like ( charging voltage is going up to quickly for the amount of time that it has been on charge )

I have had some issues with some batteries that I have bought from them however they have taken care of me when this issue has come up in the past

I do not always let them know if let say I have bought four of the same exact battery packs and I get a bad battery pack if has a BMS protection board or a case that I can still use and it still work good or if I can still use the BMS protection board or case then I do not have a total loss just a some what loss

Most of the time the battery pack are not that expensive in the first place

One other test that this battery testing machine can do for you is that you can monitor the battery voltage in the standby mode meaning that you are not charging or discharge the battery you can see how bad the self discharge is on an individual battery cell this is also very important to know as well

Now a lot of people on YouTube have also mentioned that internal resistance is also important to know but I have not found that this is very important to me as far as how good a battery is preforming for what I am using them for

Now this might make a difference if you have the battery pack sit for a very long time and you do not get the same exact results as far as milliamperes hours are concerned yes this might be an issue if you have to reliable battery pack

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Old 10-16-2021, 06:04 PM   #6
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Quote:
Originally Posted by petehall347 View Post
i am interested in this stuff because its looking like i need to be getting it all myself .. am already amassing the faulty battery packs from a place i do electronic electric repairs for when its something beyond them ..
packs are either 80v or 82v .. basically the same inside different stickers outside .
If you want me to I can post a graph of a battery cell that I know that would be a problem to charge because it will become hot when charging it

Just let me know if you want to see what it would look like
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Old 10-16-2021, 10:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

What does this mean "proper compression"? You have to squish them?

"...THESE CELLS ARE RATED FOR 200A CONTINUOUS EACH WITH PROPER COMPRESSION. YOU CAN SIMPLY USE THREADED RODS IN THE CORNERS OF THE CELL HOLDERS TO COMPRESS."
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Old 10-17-2021, 01:47 AM   #8
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

This is a little bit misleading what they are talking about is that the battery terminal tabs on each end need to have there tabs compression but you need to have the battery cells compression so that the battery cell terminals are not put uneven stress on them

What I going to do is ******The normal setup for these battery cells ( 2“P”1“S” = one battery pack ) ( X 2 battery cells-plate that group 6 of them together ) how many series cells need to have the correct battery voltage required for your application ********

But for the battery operated battery stud welder
The setup is going to be 1“P”1“S” X 3 cells is series for a voltage of 12.6 volts

Which means that I have to re-bend one the battery cell terminal the opposite direction on each battery cell for a total of three of them so I can have a 3 battery cell configuration and compress those two battery pack cells except two battery terminals for the positive side and the negative side on two different battery cells which does not need to be compression to the other battery cells but does have to be supported to the battery cell plastic housing that does the compression
( with out using the battery cell grouping jointing plate )

I hope this helps clear up the confusion about what they are talking about

One note you might think that this would not allow the battery pack cells to expand you would be wrong it will allow it to expand however it would be more constrained to a smaller space which might not be a good thing in the long run if something went terrible wrong with the battery pack

The problem I going to have is to find a good quality BMS protection board for this project which is going to be a little of a problem for me because I do not know what brand of BMS balancing protection board I need to use for 200 amp pulsing output

If someone knows where I can find a BMS balancing protection board that is known for there quality please post a website link to it I would be very interested in this thanks

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Old 10-17-2021, 02:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Battery operated battery stud welder testing is going to be done on bench power supply for testing the voltage on the mosfet driver circuit because of know issues with these battery operated battery stud welder controllers because of not having a filtering capacitor on the mosfet drive circuit but having to big of filtering capacitor on the battery input terminals which will be correctly sized and correctly configurations

More information about this issue can be found on YouTube videos about battery operated battery stud welder controller boards
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Old 10-18-2021, 05:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

those crazy chinese welders figure it's cheaper to use a car battery over getting a 1F low esr capacitor, and then the crazy americans get the bright idea of using lithium ion, iron phosphate no less, to run their welders instead of car batteries because "it's better"...
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Old 10-18-2021, 05:45 PM   #11
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

But with some risk unfortunately it not completely designed correctly for the mosfet to not destroy it self from use

I going to be using an automotive type fuse 80 amp or higher if can find them in the junkyard

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Old 10-18-2021, 06:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

That sure doesn't matter whether you use a lead acid battery or a lithium ion. In fact using a low esr capacitor limits the total energy dissipated by the transistor, which helps protect it too...
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Old 10-18-2021, 06:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

What is a good brand name for this type of capacitor that you are talking about
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Old 10-18-2021, 11:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Well chances are getting these capacitors are likely as expensive or more expensive than a lithium ion pack nowadays just because they don't have as much use anymore after the proliferation of SMPSs... Seems they will cost $80 or so a piece now, at one time they were in the $30s...

Of course no EDLCs, they must be regular low ESR aluminum caps. Seems Cornell-Dubilier and Kemet still makes them, alas they're $ARM$LEG now, mainly due to low volume: their main market these days are car audiophools and ... capacitive discharge welders... Do consider paralleling lots of capacitors in lieu of a big cap, may even reduce ESR this way.
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Old 10-21-2021, 06:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

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Originally Posted by eccerr0r View Post
Do consider paralleling lots of capacitors in lieu of a big cap, may even reduce ESR this way.
I have a bunch of capacitors that I bought surplus that I used in switching power supply that have held up very well I will build a capacitor board with them

One question I have is how should I limit the inrush current to this capacitor bank board

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Old 10-21-2021, 07:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

You'll need to get to 1F or higher, 2F is probably good. I've found 0.22F to be insufficient and that's where my experimentation ended as getting these capacitors is costly, though technically I could go a bit higher with parallel units, at least with a few random 10mF to 40mF caps I have lying around.

Limit inrush with a resistor or use current limited power supply, but either way it will need to deal with inrush every recycle. Which is a limitation of capacitive discharge welders - recycle rate can be slow...

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Old 10-23-2021, 01:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam_sam_sam View Post
Battery operated battery stud welder testing is going to be done on bench power supply for testing the voltage on the mosfet driver circuit because of know issues with these battery operated battery stud welder controllers because of not having a filtering capacitor on the mosfet drive circuit but having to big of filtering capacitor on the battery input terminals which will be correctly sized and correctly configurations

More information about this issue can be found on YouTube videos about battery operated battery stud welder controller boards
Update on the battery operated battery stud welder board I removed the [email protected] volt capacitor and put a [email protected] volt capacitor instead an install a [email protected] volt capacitor on the diode on the power switch to the controller circuit board

I tested on a bench power supply at 99 count on the controller with a MR16 20 watt bulb as the load and everything seems to be ok it briefly lights the light bulb and the display stay on with no issues

The real test will be when I hook up a battery to this device with an 80 amp fuse for safety and see how it does doing this

One note the capacitor that was on the board I going to put this near the battery instead

One other note there was an issue with the top controller board and the display and the top plastic face plate putting a lot of pressure on the the display I had to remove the solder from the pins on the board and shorten them a little bit now there is no pressure on the display

I still have some more batteries to still test before I can put the battery pack together one of the batteries I had to cycle it several times before I got 8 amp hours from it so this might take me longer than I had planned to spend on testing these batteries but I want to make sure that the BMS protection board that I going to use to charge it keep the batteries from over charging I am hoping to find a decent BMS balancing protection board but I still have not found the one that I want to use for it yet and I will have to test it several times to see how it will behave as well

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Old 11-07-2021, 12:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

Here is one reason why crazy Americans are not going to use lead acid battery that are 17 amp hour rated is because of cost they are not cheep and most of them are made in China and there quality is crap ( one note it is vert difficult to find a lead acid battery that is made in Japan and this is because of the cost of them the local battery company do not carry them because customers want cheaper batteries ) there was a time I could find them and I would pay the extra cost for Japan made batteries because they so much better in quality

I found a place where you can find a “car jumping battery pack” which I bought one that does have the following 5 port usb for charging your phone or tablet , a led work light , an air compressor to pump up your tires , build in charger for charging the 17 amp hour lead acid battery at a cost of $70.00 not a bad deal however it the battery is issue because you will be lucky if it lasts two years with very little use

I going to buy another one to use for my battery stud welder because the more I think about if the battery stud welder controller takes a shit thing could go horribly wrong and more I thought about this I do not want to be apart of this and do not want to take the risk

But I will use these batteries for jump starting battery pack but it will be fused so it does not excessively drain the battery pack to quickly and cause issues because I can get 80 to 125 amp fuse from the local car junkyard for very cheap $0.50 each and the case for the 17 amp hour battery that went bad I am going to reuse the case for the batteries that this post is about one thing I will have to do is modify the case to accept these batteries because they are little bit bigger in size and will have to remove the air compressor so there will be enough room for these new batteries I going to use

I will post some pictures of this when I finish this project I have to buy some plastic sheet to separate each from each other battery cells and put them under some compression for the battery terminals because the battery holder for these batteries are little to big for this enclosure and I would have to do to much modification for it to fit correctly also because the battery holder also has a cutout for the battery terminals which is not going to work for the way I am going to mount it unless I can figure out an easier way to do this

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Old 11-07-2021, 02:16 AM   #19
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

You use car starter batteries. As in the ones for cars, not for jump starting. Jump pack batteries are tiny.

Just get those car batteries from a junk yard, you can get one for $30 or so on average. Should be more than sufficient to weld with. Usually 55Ah, just make sure you recharge them ASAP.
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Old 11-07-2021, 02:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: SPIM08HP 3.7V 16AH Battery which can handle 200 amp pluses Battery Hookup

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You use car starter batteries. As in the ones for cars, not for jump starting. Jump pack batteries are tiny.

Just get those car batteries from a junk yard, you can get one for $30 or so on average. Should be more than sufficient to weld with. Usually 55Ah, just make sure you recharge them ASAP.
I want to thank you for your ideas because it gives me other ideas about some other options that I might not have thought of at the time

I thought about doing this however
I do not like the idea of the battery venting while charging this is the reason ( yeah I know I could charge it out side however I would have move it in and out of the garage to much of a hassle for something that you might use once or twice a year )
I am not for doing this yes it would be cheaper solution because using the battery just jumping a car once in a blue moon it would probably be dead when
I would need to charge it more often because of the high discharge rate that used batteries of this type of battery have but even if you have a new battery it’s discharge rate is less but if just sitting idle for long periods of time is not going to be good for them and this is the reason I have done it this way before ( yeah I know I could use a battery maintainer but these devices have a bad habit of over charging them over a period of time and unless you keep an eye on it you might have a battery with no electrolyte left in it so this is not a solution for this problem either)
I know this because in a former life
I worked as a battery technician and I saw this first hand about self discharge just sitting on the shelf for a battery size that was not popular and every six months we had to check the battery voltage on them and if they were low we had to put them on charge

I actually have a another use for doing this project and it for having a remote way of charging my phone and tablet and smaller battery packs for different devices

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