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ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

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    ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

    I went to check the board in question for a friend. System will crash when both memory modules are installed (Corsair 675MHz 4-4-4-12, 2x 1GB), but will work fine with either one of them on their own. The board worked with both sticks till about a month ago. 2.66GHz Intel Pentium D, Radeon x550 PCI-E.

    PSU is the typical gutless wonder, but i monitored the 12v line at the ATX 12v connector and although it fluctuates a bit, it never goes under 12.00. His dad had a nice Amprobe DMM which also allowed me to check the ripple of the gutless wonder PSU. I measured 50 to 70 mV at the ATX 12v connector, which is well within specs. No swollen caps in the PSU either.

    However there is 20mV of ripple on the CPU Vcore, which doesn't seem right to me... Have to check the Intel specs to be sure. Anyway, with either stick of RAM board passes IntelBurnTest, with both, most of the times it doesn't even finish booting and it BSODs. It is chock full of OST caps, however none of them seem bulged...

    I tried a BIOS update. Long story short, THE BOARD IS LABELED WRONG AND ALSO ECS HAS THE WRONG BIOS ON THEIR SITE. I know ECS is crap but i wasn't expecting a goof-up of this magnitude. The oldest BIOS file on the ECS site for RC410L/800-M2 is for this particular board but has A DIFFERENT ROM ID. Can't remember what it is, but it's another model anyway. The newer ones have the ID RC410L/800-M2, and wouldn't flash. Since it was an official BIOS and it matched the model labeled onto the board i simply set the flasher to ignore the ROM ID, and it flashed.

    But the board is now dead. Luckily the BIOS is socketed, and i borrowed another board with the same type of BIOS, and will proceed to hotflashing to bring the ECS back up. But just a heads up, DON'T update ECS BIOSes. Just don't do it. Especially if you get some funky error message when you try to.

    So, any suggestion on what could be the cause of the board not working with both sticks of RAM? The board only has two RAM slots, and either stick in either slot works fine on its own. I have some different RAM sticks which i will test with it to see if it's a motherboard or memory compatibility issue, but i suspect the board, since it used to work fine before.
    Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 09-17-2010, 08:14 AM.
    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
    A working TV? How boring!

    #2
    Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

    OST caps are known for failing with no visible signs. You could try recapping it.
    I love putting bad caps and flat batteries in fire and watching them explode!!

    No wonder it doesn't work! You installed the jumper wires backwards

    Main PC: Core i7 3770K 3.5GHz, Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H-MVP, 8GB Kingston HyperX DDR3 1600, 240GB Intel 335 Series SSD, 750GB WD HDD, Sony Optiarc DVD RW, Palit nVidia GTX660 Ti, CoolerMaster N200 Case, Delta DPS-600MB 600W PSU, Hauppauge TV Tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium

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    Comment


      #3
      Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

      Well my 2 ecs boards are ok -not god for ocing but stable and inexpensove.
      Lga775 and am2

      Comment


        #4
        Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

        RAM is usually powered by the 5v rail when the computer is on, and by the 5vsb when off or in standby mode. A noisy 5v/5vsb could be causing this problem. With that said, try again with a known good, *non-gutless wonder*, PSU if possible.
        If problem persists, then it could be the OST caps. Like c_hegge mentioned, they could be bad without bulging.

        I'm leaning towards bad PSU. Had enough bad experiences with cheap PSUs to know not to trust them.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

          20mv on the CPU is way out of line. Should be dead quiet or darn near. Little stupid caps around the RAM slots will also wreak havoc. Their value will be ok, but ESR is high. Check that PSU too.
          veritas odium parit

          Comment


            #6
            Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

            I have seen this several times, and not just with this board. Most of the times it has been the caps for the dimm sockets. My first test it is to see if it will run the memory at a lot lower clock speed (IE if it is DDR 400 try it at DDR 133 etc) if the bios will let you. This works with CPU's as well. Underclocking sometimes allows (not totally failed caps to work for a very short time). Just do this for testing so they dont damage more when they go for good.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

              The BIOS is basically useless. No speed settings of any kind. I'll try recapping it... if i can get the darn BIOS to flash that is.

              The board i borrowed won't recognize the 512kB ROM. I was able to trigger floppy recovery on the ECS itself, but after it finishes reading the disk the floppy drive light stays lit, and... nothing happens. If i power cycle it it'll start reading again and do the same thing.
              Originally posted by PeteS in CA
              Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
              A working TV? How boring!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                It's not that the PIII board wouldn't do 512k ROMs, but it wouldn't do that particular one. I eventually went to someone i knew that had a programmer, and found out that the BIOS chip itself had gone bad. $6 later, we got the darn thing to boot again. I brought it back home and recapped the RAM area. It was a nightmare. The solder used on the board had some silly high melting point - so high, that i was afraid i'd blow the new caps before i actually finish installing them! Oh well, done that.

                I checked out the CPU area some more. It is HORRIBLE! I'm surprised this thing even works at all. Those four OST caps filtering the ATX 12v rail run at 65C due to the high ripple current, and some of the MOSFETs are standing upright, with NO cooling area at all!!! They run over 90C, and that's without the thing actually installed in a case! This is a terrific example of how NOT to design a motherboard. If it were mine, i would throw this piece of turd in the garbage right away. It's disastrous. Oh and to top it all, darn thing hangs when booting from USB, and i have no blank CDs left. Brilliant!

                On a more positive note, my newly-fixed-used-to-be-Powerlink PSU handles it without a sweat. I can hardly think of a more hungry CPU than a Pentium D, so this power supply should serve well for testing various stuff. Edit: I got it to boot memtest from USB. We shall see...

                Fun fact - the BIOS calls the Pentium D a "Pentium 5". Oh and if anyone of you had any doubt who ECS are... it's good old PCChips. Crappiest mobos ever made. So crappy, that they had to change names to be able to actually sell them again.

                Edit 2 (hooray for 2 hours edit time!) It fails memtest in test 5 (block move). Also in test 6. Throws up tons of errors at the end. If i move the sticks around the error locations move, so it would sound like one stick is bad. But... each stick tests fine on its own. I just switched it to onboard gfx and it passes with both sticks. Go figure... Could a bad video card give RAM errors? He did mention that the video card would do "disco colors" sometimes.

                Final edit for the night: This - is - retarded. I got one stick to fail consistently with the PCI-E video card. Okay, issue solved... or so i thought. I tried a PCI video card just in case. It fails. I restricted the onboard video memory to 32MB instead of 128MB (onboard video still active when PCI video card is used). Fails even more. Good, i got to the bottom of it... so i thought. I switched to onboard video again - IT DOES NOT FAIL. There is no way that the onboard video simply takes the bad RAM to itself, because with the PCI card the onboard video still takes up RAM, and the stick still failed. I guess i'll have to try it in my mobo, this is getting silly.

                One thing i'm consistently seeing though is that RAM speed is a little slower with onboard video enabled - could it be some sort of timing changes that trigger the errors? Since the BIOS is no help, i can do nothing but just wonder.
                Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 09-19-2010, 05:52 PM.
                Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                A working TV? How boring!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                  Two of my ECS AM2 mobos popped their OST caps in the memory voltage regulators, and each time that happened, the computer rebooted. But when caps in the same circuit of my Asrock Socket A mobo popped, the computer kept working normally.

                  My ECS nForce3A Socket 754 mobo wouldn't let the fast A20 gate be enabled in the BIOS, and the floppy drive would sometimes buzz. So I recapped it, but nothing improved. Then I read that this mobo could use the BIOS of the BioStar NF325-N7, and after I flashed to it, all the problems disappeared.

                  I've had really bad luck with Corsair DDR2 memory but no defects with their PC133 and DDR modules. This is the opposite of what I've experienced with Kingston, which hasn't let me down yet with DDR2 (haven't tried DDR3).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                    I've had bad luck with Corsair DDR2 too - in my main system i have 4x 2GB of XMS2-1066. When i bought them, they would crap out past 850MHz... Fun thing, Memtest would pass, but Windows crashed every 15 minutes or so. Corsair wasn't helpful, they said it was a compatibility issue. Bollocks. I had vanilla PQI 800MHz memory that would do 1000MHz with 2.2v, that is, till i fried it. It did last a good 2 years under this abuse so i'm not complaining. I sent all 4 Corsair sticks back (which BTW had mismatched serial numbers), and they sent me back ones with incremental serial numbers, that do fine at 1030MHz.

                    It's still not 1066, but the difference is small enough for me not to bother about it. At the crazy FSB i run (i have an E6550, 7x multiplier... i run at 515FSB), it's probably the mobo.

                    I've just finished installing Windows on the thing, both sticks in, running with onboard video. Stable so far. I will run Windows-based benches too then switch to PCI and PCI-E graphics card to see what happens. Since the suspected bad stick is in the first slot and the onboard video always maps "at the end" of the memory, it should have crashed if the stick was actually bad, but it doesn't.
                    Last edited by Th3_uN1Qu3; 09-20-2010, 04:51 AM.
                    Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                    Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                    A working TV? How boring!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                      Anyway, i gave the board back to my friend on Monday. Told him to run with just one stick of RAM if things get funky... Which he did, and it's now running fine.
                      Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                      Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                      A working TV? How boring!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                        2 things come to mind.the ram needs nonstandard vdimm and timings to be stable.the caps are bad.
                        iirc this is the same board i got from a trashed evilmachines and flashed with the real ecs bios to eliminate the limitations of the totally stripped emachines bios.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                          The RAM used to be stable when he bought it. Anyway at the end of it all the RAM was found faulty.

                          Not that the "real" BIOS has too many options either.
                          Originally posted by PeteS in CA
                          Remember that by the time consequences of a short-sighted decision are experienced, the idiot who made the bad decision may have already been promoted or moved on to a better job at another company.
                          A working TV? How boring!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                            Good to see you got to the bottom of it. Hasn't ECS been using "knockoff" solid caps now too?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                              Originally posted by Th3_uN1Qu3 View Post
                              The RAM used to be stable when he bought it. Anyway at the end of it all the RAM was found faulty.

                              Not that the "real" BIOS has too many options either.
                              Were the DDR2 RAM chips of the Micron D9 family?

                              There were folks reporting high failure rates with Micron D9 chips.
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                                #16
                                Re: ECS RC410L/800-M2 - suspected bad caps and WATCH THE BIOS!!!

                                Someone just sold me a "broken" RC410-M yesterday.

                                Caps are a combo of:
                                Sanyo WG
                                Panasonic FL
                                OST RLS
                                G-LUXON SM
                                UCC Polymers around the CPU

                                Looks like it's a pull from an old HP machine:
                                http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport...ctID=c00638516
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