CD music CD failed? :(

[stevo1210]

I have a Memorex CD with some music I recorded in 2001. The disc has been used every now and again and stored safely in a CD cover and closet as well. No exposure to heat or water etc.
Now I insert it into EVERY CD player and it fails to read. Drive spins up etc... no music detected whatsoever.
I swear it worked about 2 years ago. Disc looks perfect... no imperfections or physical damages or scratches.
What's going on here?!

[Topcat]

seen this out of a lot of memorex media.

[mariushm]

That's the lifetime of a compact disc. A disc will only last 4-6 years, maybe a bit more, and then it stats to get errors and die.

If you want long life (still around 10 year only), you'd have to look for genuine Taiyo Yuden discs, made in Japan... expensive but they last.

[ratdude747]

At least it's not a PDO disc... those would bronze up due to shoddy disc quality...

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by mariushm

That's the lifetime of a compact disc. A disc will only last 4-6 years, maybe a bit more, and then it stats to get errors and die.

If you want long life (still around 10 year only), you'd have to look for genuine Taiyo Yuden discs, made in Japan... expensive but they last.

I've got some verbatim's I burned abck in the mid-90's that are still good...

[dj_ricoh]

Originally Posted by Topcat

I've got some verbatim's I burned abck in the mid-90's that are still good...

with plextor writer with 1X speed
and if it had cd player incorporated in it...woow cool toy

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by dj_ricoh

with plextor writer with 1X speed
and if it had cd player incorporated in it...woow cool toy

It was on a Sony 2x caddy load SCSI. I do still have my Plextor 4x12 SCSI CD writer (rewrite wasn't even around then). Still works as far as I know.

[RJARRRPCGP]

Originally Posted by stevo1210

I have a Memorex CD with some music I recorded in 2001. The disc has been used every now and again and stored safely in a CD cover and closet as well. No exposure to heat or water etc.
Now I insert it into EVERY CD player and it fails to read. Drive spins up etc... no music detected whatsoever.
I swear it worked about 2 years ago. Disc looks perfect... no imperfections or physical damages or scratches.
What's going on here?!

Sounds like the "floppy disk syndrome". Where all of a sudden, wham! A disk error!

[mariushm]

Those older discs have a thicker layer of chemical substrate and a thicker layer of reflective material.
They've also used better glue so the humidity doesn't get in so easily to damage the insides of the disc.

To get higher speeds, they use different formulations in the substrate which are more sensitive to light and humidity and thinner layers, so that the lasers can do the work in the short period of time they have.

So it's normal... current discs are no longer designed to last for ages.

[lexwalker]

Originally Posted by stevo1210

I have a Memorex CD with some music I recorded in 2001. The disc has been used every now and again and stored safely in a CD cover and closet as well. No exposure to heat or water etc.
Now I insert it into EVERY CD player and it fails to read. Drive spins up etc... no music detected whatsoever.
I swear it worked about 2 years ago. Disc looks perfect... no imperfections or physical damages or scratches.
What's going on here?!

Any exposure to bright lights, especially sunlight? That dye in the recording layer has degraded (broke down) already. As a consumer of large quantities of many different CDRs (and DVDRs), the quality of those CDRs are very dependant on the OEM or the actual manufacturer itself. I had some Memorex crap quite sometime ago, and for that batch the disc OEM was GigaStorage. If the batch's OEM was Prodisc then likelihood/chances the data was retained is very good. Over the years, I find these CDRs to be the most reliable (still retained data very well until today)...

- Kodak Ultima Gold 4X (original Kodak factory gold discs, not the later ones which were from another factory)
- Mitsubishi Crystal Black Sonic AZO 48X (under Mitsubishi brand, original Mitsubishi dye, manufactured by CMC Magnetics)
- Mitsubishi Super AZO 24X (under Mitsubishi brand, original Mitsubishi dye, manufactured by CMC Magnetics)

There are also Verbatim (same company as Mitsubishi) discs/batches that uses those Super AZO and Sonic AZO dye, but those have to check carefully before buying (as not all are the same type). Besides the above, had "Sonic Blue" CDRs whose batch OEM was from Prodisc that also retained data well. Not to say every Mitsubishi media is great, but they had bad ones also especially those Metal AZO ones (which eventually degraded also). Same goes with Taiyo Yuden, especially those early ones using cyanine dye are destined for data loss. And I would especially avoid Sony, especially those from Sony's own factory...

[stevo1210]

Found some software today called ISO buster. I didn't have much hope in some software recovering the files but low and behold, everything came up! WHAT.

All is good again. Imported content to my HDD!

[cheapie]

I have a giant spindle of Memorex-branded CD-Rs with this:

ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -11634 (97:26/66)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359846 (79:59/71)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 3
Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corporation

I also have some Memorex DVD+RWs with media code "INFODISC/A10". Are either of these any good?

[SeanB]

I pulled a batch of Verbatim AZO disks out of a drawer where they have sat since about 2004, and all were readable with the 700Mb of data on each. After looking at the data they all went into the microwave for erasure prior to going in the bin. Hard to read the data when the metallisation layer is vaporised off.

[Kiriakos GR]

Those Verbatim with the additional protective layers was also my choice too.

Basically it was known from the start that this chemical layer in them it is prone to fail.
Oxidation is the the main enemy.
The ppl back then was saying that only the rewritable are much safer to use for long term storage.
But their price it was flying high.

[lexwalker]

Originally Posted by cheapie

I have a giant spindle of Memorex-branded CD-Rs with this:

ATIP info from disk:
  Indicated writing power: 5
  Is not unrestricted
  Is not erasable
  Disk sub type: Medium Type A, high Beta category (A+) (3)
  ATIP start of lead in:  -11634 (97:26/66)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359846 (79:59/71)
Disk type:    Short strategy type (Phthalocyanine or similar)
Manuf. index: 3
Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corporation

I also have some Memorex DVD+RWs with media code "INFODISC/A10". Are either of these any good?

Nopes, all no good. For CMC Magnetics very own discs, good only for short term storage and their quality is inconsistent (in other words sometimes OK, often bad batches). Over here, have a bunch of Imation with CMC Magnetics as OEM, and some have lost data while some has started flake (the top reflective layer peeling off). Generally stay with Mitsubishi (or Verbatim). Those Mitsubishi Crystal Black Sonic AZO are possibly the best CDR around nowadays, if you can still find them! My Kodaks lasted from the years when I was using SCSI CD writers with low 2X, 4X and 8X speeds (and that was before IDE CD writers started or becoming mainstream)!

[RJARRRPCGP]

Originally Posted by lexwalker

Over here, have a bunch of Imation with CMC Magnetics as OEM, and some have lost data while some has started flake (the top reflective layer peeling off).

I only seen this problem with Memorex.

[cheapie]

Originally Posted by lexwalker

Nopes, all no good. For CMC Magnetics very own discs, good only for short term storage and their quality is inconsistent (in other words sometimes OK, often bad batches).

That's what I thought. I noticed that they say 52x, but burns are unreliable at 48x (the top speed of my drive). 32x or lower (all the way down to 16x, the slowest supported by the disc) works fine. I usually burn them at 24x or 16x.

The DVDs support 2.4x and 4x, if I remember correctly. Burning them at 4x works fine. I have also not had any problems with any Memorex CD-RWs, regardless of manufacturer. I've tried the 4x (burnt at 4x) and 12x (my drive doesn't support 12x, so 10x) with good results.

However, I used to have an old Samsung 32x CD-RW drive that didn't like them. It would sometimes lock up during erasing and while writing the lead-in. Also, after the writing finished, it would sometimes be unreadable. Another drive I had that had issues was some old thing that received very heavy use during the 2 or so years it lasted. (I think it was an HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW) The problem that it had was that it would read and burn DVDs fine, and read CDs fine, but any attempt to burn CDs resulted in a readable but unmountable disc. I looked at the data it burnt with a hex editor, and it had filled the whole disc with 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA'.

[lexwalker]

Originally Posted by cheapie

That's what I thought. I noticed that they say 52x, but burns are unreliable at 48x (the top speed of my drive). 32x or lower (all the way down to 16x, the slowest supported by the disc) works fine. I usually burn them at 24x or 16x.

The DVDs support 2.4x and 4x, if I remember correctly. Burning them at 4x works fine. I have also not had any problems with any Memorex CD-RWs, regardless of manufacturer. I've tried the 4x (burnt at 4x) and 12x (my drive doesn't support 12x, so 10x) with good results.

For CDRs, I would usually burn them at 4X, 8X or 16X speeds only even though the CDR is rated for 48X or 52X speeds. Likewise for DVDRs, I would use 4X and 8X burn speeds usually. Thus since I'm careful with my data, would prefer low and/or medium speed burning.

Originally Posted by cheapie

However, I used to have an old Samsung 32x CD-RW drive that didn't like them. It would sometimes lock up during erasing and while writing the lead-in. Also, after the writing finished, it would sometimes be unreadable. Another drive I had that had issues was some old thing that received very heavy use during the 2 or so years it lasted. (I think it was an HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW) The problem that it had was that it would read and burn DVDs fine, and read CDs fine, but any attempt to burn CDs resulted in a readable but unmountable disc. I looked at the data it burnt with a hex editor, and it had filled the whole disc with 'AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA'.

For that Samsung drive, could be optical pickup sensitivity problem/issue. As for the latter, could either be drive firmware issue (to support newer or unknown CD/DVD media) and/or simply bad laser.

[Hondaman]

I hate to say it, but we're going to have to keep moving to new formats to keep our data readable.

I paid WAY TOO MUCH $$$ for Travan-4 tape under Win 3.1, and it was junk. I welcomed the capacity and ease of my SCSI CD-burner and I still have it (along with EIDE and SATA DVD-R/RW). Now maybe I should use a combination of CD/DVD and RAID or multiple USB hard drives. I should keep an old PC around for IDE drives, until all the data is safely on SATA drives or even SSD. And CD-R and DVD-R discs should be kept in a dark cabinet in the basement.

I have heard that burning at around half the maximum speed of your burner gives the best burn. Cheap modern media could still hurt you though.

Nero CD-DVD-Speed used to be freeware, testing the blocks on your media. But the free, old version may not work with modern versions of Windows or modern burners. Does anyone know of any good, up-to-date alternatives? It's important to test so we know when to burn to new media -- before the old media dies !!

[eccerr0r]

I had a bunch of Verbatim CDRs (Azo/silvery colored reflector) that the top metal layer started rusting for whatever reason... some dark spots started going inwards from the edges. The inside tracks still read but the outside was no longer readable. Probably because the edge seal failed...

Just that I had several of them die this way, but not all of them suffered this fate.