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    Re: 32" Goodmans TV

    Originally posted by dumpystig View Post
    Yep, you sure are having some probs with those Vestel boards - much the same as me ffs. I've had this thing running just fine for days, then I left it off for a few days and on powering up tonight I'm getting the flashing LED crap again. Only today it was a different flash/rate from previous, so up to now I've had four different 'errors' - but nowhere can I find a list of the error codes. But I have narrowed it down to the startup sequence; switch on (from stby) and after a couple of seconds the M/b should chuck out 3V2 on PL003/1 to PL803/1 which in turn goes directly to PL802/12 and supplies the inverter switch-on power. But instead of the 3V2 it's only giving around 2V9, and according to the service manual it should be between 3~5V, and I reckon the 3V minimum is crucial - and maybe there's not enough current either, but the output is too short for me to measure either V or A before it locks out. The backlights illuminate for a split second and then the set locks out and goes into LED flash again. So I'm gona have a closer look at the components supplying the VSUP_3v3_COM on the VCTP.

    Back to your set, I think you are having the same probs as I was initially, both my PSU and M/b were playing up. I sorted the PSU and now all the V's are as they should be except the inverter V mentioned above. I'm away for the weekend but I'll get back on it Sunday, and have a closer look at your posts again too.
    I'm convinced that the flashing is not an error code, merely a symptom of a bad PSU. Try using a small low-current 3mm LED on the STBY_ON_OFF pin; it might be bright enough to see it flashing on and off. In which case, the CPU is shutting down the PSU, possibly because the rails aren't good enough. (That's what the PROTECTION_DETECT circuit does - undervoltage protection.)

    One thing that I heard about poly caps is they are very temperature dependent and they can heal when they are damaged, but they do lose a bit of performance in the process (usually in the form of capacitance.) It could explain the problems we are getting. The two caps, near the big transformer, C877 and C878, carry the *full* load of the PSU on alternate half-cycles so they are under a *lot* of stress. The peak current through those caps is probably on the order of 5A. They're quite expensive too - Digikey has them for $1 each - and manufacturers are always under pressure to make products cheaper, so it wouldn't surprise me if these are sub-par caps. Another form of bad capacitors, but not electrolytic, and there's not much you can do as there aren't really "good" poly cap brands unlike with electrolytics.
    Last edited by tom66; 07-30-2011, 01:29 PM.
    Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
    For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

    Comment


      Re: 32" Goodmans TV

      I disagree Tom, the LED is definitely indicating a fault(s) - my PSU is working fine, it's the M/b that's giving me the probs, and it all stems down to the output (or lack of) on the B/L signal. The M/b doesn't power down the PSU, it stays running and ALL rails give the correct V's. The problem is the signal to turn on the inverter - it turns it on but then instantly goes low again, whilst all other V's remain as they should.
      System: HP xw6600 Workstation, 650W PSU | 2x Intel Xeon Quad E5440 @2.83GHz | 8x 1GB FB-DDR2 @ 667MHz | Kingston/Intel X25-M 160GB SSD | 2x 1TB Spinpoint F3, RAID0 | 1x 1TB Spinpoint F3, backup | ATI FireGL V7700 512MB | Sony Optiarc DVD +/-RW | Win 7 Ultimate x64 | 2x Dell UltraSharp U2410f | Dell E248WFP

      Comment


        Re: 32" Goodmans TV

        Originally posted by dumpystig View Post
        I disagree Tom, the LED is definitely indicating a fault(s) - my PSU is working fine, it's the M/b that's giving me the probs, and it all stems down to the output (or lack of) on the B/L signal. The M/b doesn't power down the PSU, it stays running and ALL rails give the correct V's. The problem is the signal to turn on the inverter - it turns it on but then instantly goes low again, whilst all other V's remain as they should.
        Maybe you are having a different problem to mine.

        I just fixed a 32" Acoustic Solutions with an identical PSU (17PW20.1). All I did was open the case up and fiddled with the connectors. It had a similar problem, although it would switch on normally, it would tend to switch itself off after a few minutes. These Vestel things drop like flies - I've got my eyes on a Logik 32" which I'm willing to bet has a 17PW20.1 PSU in it, and probably the same or similar chassis as the other 32" TVs.

        re: Goodmans

        In my case the STBY_ON_OFF line, driven directly by the CPU, was/is turning on and off. The question is - why? Well as I do not have source code for the firmware of the CPU I would not be able to figure that out. However, I'm suspecting that it definitely has something to do with the protection detect circuit. Because in my case, the rails were floating at around 11V for the 24V rail. No idea why; could be any number of issues. But the protection detect fires on 4.3V for a 5V rail, so it would easily be set off by that. So, CPU turns PSU on as soon as it is plugged in. I have determined this is normal behaviour because the Acoustic Solutions does exactly the same thing when it is first plugged in.

        On mains power up, CPU switches PSU on for ~0.5 seconds. Not sure why - firmware bug - or CPU getting confused? As it is supposed to be in standby mode it then switches itself into standby and leaves the STBY_ON_OFF in the off state (high/low? - can't remember atm.) - this is of course if it is working. The problem I was having until I completely screwed up soldering was that this stage would get caught in a loop. The CPU was telling the PSU to fire up for this 0.5 seconds but then for some unknown reason was resetting, and the cycle continued until power was pulled, and it lasted for a good 2 seconds with no mains power (just running off the 220u mains filter cap), telling me that it wasn't drawing much current (from the filter cap) in this mode and the problem is likely something to do with how the current is controlled through the transformer, or something to do with the feedback. Whatever it is, the power supply rails are rising - but not fast enough - and the CPU is resetting. Why? Good question, one which I do not have the answer to...

        This is why I suggest getting the LED to test the ON/OFF line. You could also use a logic probe - you can pick one up for about £15 from Maplins and it will tell you about the STBY_ON_OFF line. The logic probe might be better than the LED as it draws very little current from the control line. A cheap 12 MHz dual-trace analog oscilloscope nearby me is going for £30; a scope is really crucial equipment for debugging a power supply especially one of this complexity, but be careful(!) you *cannot* use it to probe the high voltage primary side!!! You will blow it up! Only the secondary side may be probed and you may not probe the inverter either. This has been my main limitation at the moment; I am considering getting an isolation transformer and a high voltage probe to allow me to probe the primary side of SMPSs. The voltage on parts there can easily be 400V, and my poor scope is limited to 250Vpk, and really only can measure 100Vpk, and I don't wanna blow it up!
        Last edited by tom66; 08-02-2011, 05:33 PM.
        Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
        For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

        Comment


          Re: 32" Goodmans TV

          Originally posted by tom66 View Post
          Maybe you are having a different problem to mine.

          I just fixed a 32" Acoustic Solutions with an identical PSU (17PW20.1). All I did was open the case up and fiddled with the connectors.
          Not had this bugger running for the past few days. Tried powering on today and the LED has been exhibiting all sorts of different random 'patterns' of flashing, and the set just wouldn't turn on. This time on testing it was seemingly a PSU fault (WTF??? After apparently sorting my PSU weeks ago!). So I've now disconnected all plugs between PSU and M/b and given them a light penetration of silicon spray before reconnection. It switched on first time - but I've previously had it running several times only for it to go into 'standby error' (my words) again. So lets see how things go now, only time will tell. I'm in total agreement with you though, Vestel boards are an absolute PITA and very frustrating to work on...
          System: HP xw6600 Workstation, 650W PSU | 2x Intel Xeon Quad E5440 @2.83GHz | 8x 1GB FB-DDR2 @ 667MHz | Kingston/Intel X25-M 160GB SSD | 2x 1TB Spinpoint F3, RAID0 | 1x 1TB Spinpoint F3, backup | ATI FireGL V7700 512MB | Sony Optiarc DVD +/-RW | Win 7 Ultimate x64 | 2x Dell UltraSharp U2410f | Dell E248WFP

          Comment


            Re: 32" Goodmans TV

            My description above is incorrect - I sprayed the sockets (cable ends) not the plugs (circuit boards) directly onto the end face so it would penetrate into the pin receptacles. So far (since last night) I've powered the TV on and off dozens of times and not once has it faulted, although I've done this in the past with the same results only for it to go awry again after being left turned off for a few days. So I'll see what happens over the coming days, but I wouldn't be surprised if this does correct things - I've had success over the years with this silicon remedy. It was your mention of fiddling with the connectors that made me think of it again.
            System: HP xw6600 Workstation, 650W PSU | 2x Intel Xeon Quad E5440 @2.83GHz | 8x 1GB FB-DDR2 @ 667MHz | Kingston/Intel X25-M 160GB SSD | 2x 1TB Spinpoint F3, RAID0 | 1x 1TB Spinpoint F3, backup | ATI FireGL V7700 512MB | Sony Optiarc DVD +/-RW | Win 7 Ultimate x64 | 2x Dell UltraSharp U2410f | Dell E248WFP

            Comment


              Re: 32" Goodmans TV

              Well, I tried to replace the polyprop caps in the PSU, with no result. However, I'm been stuck repairing a plasma, a DVD player and another LCD so I haven't had a decent look at it.
              Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
              For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

              Comment


                Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                Are you getting correct V's on all rails? Do you get as far as the screen trying to fire up? Set is in standby, LED solid > press power on remote > LED off > approx 5 secs > screen/backlights should illuminate, set runs.
                System: HP xw6600 Workstation, 650W PSU | 2x Intel Xeon Quad E5440 @2.83GHz | 8x 1GB FB-DDR2 @ 667MHz | Kingston/Intel X25-M 160GB SSD | 2x 1TB Spinpoint F3, RAID0 | 1x 1TB Spinpoint F3, backup | ATI FireGL V7700 512MB | Sony Optiarc DVD +/-RW | Win 7 Ultimate x64 | 2x Dell UltraSharp U2410f | Dell E248WFP

                Comment


                  Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                  Hey Tom,

                  How has your Goodmans 32" progressed, is it fixed now?
                  System: HP xw6600 Workstation, 650W PSU | 2x Intel Xeon Quad E5440 @2.83GHz | 8x 1GB FB-DDR2 @ 667MHz | Kingston/Intel X25-M 160GB SSD | 2x 1TB Spinpoint F3, RAID0 | 1x 1TB Spinpoint F3, backup | ATI FireGL V7700 512MB | Sony Optiarc DVD +/-RW | Win 7 Ultimate x64 | 2x Dell UltraSharp U2410f | Dell E248WFP

                  Comment


                    Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                    Originally posted by dumpystig View Post
                    Hey Tom,

                    How has your Goodmans 32" progressed, is it fixed now?
                    Well, sort of. I got a Wharferdale in which had the same power supply, but that one is a bit temperamental in powering up. I swapped the PSUs around, and the Goodmans powered up. Although I had erased the EEPROM beforehand, so it was very confused; it thought it was in Turkey and had two HDMI inputs and various extra features. Luckily, I made a copy of the EEPROM, so I'll restore that later.
                    Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                    For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                    Comment


                      Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                      Hi people,
                      I have been battling with a TV Bush ICLCD32... with a vestel 17pw20 v1 PSU.

                      Same symptoms, set comes out of standby all rails appear good, ESR on caps all measure fine, the two 15n for the main supplies test OK. But the set just flicks back to standby.

                      I have cured this, I de soldered pin 8 of IC807 and the set operated normally, the function of this pin is to generate soft start up it is toggled by a SMD fet connected to several fault detectors in the PSU. After de soldering I scoped the gate of the FET and found it stayed at a steady state however resoldering pin 8 and scoping again the voltage was very noisy and jittery. I had another PSU and swapped out Q837 (the FET) and full function was restored.. I do recall reading this elsewhere, sorry I cant acknowledge my peer.
                      Hope this helps
                      Pete

                      Comment


                        Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                        tom 66 what model eas you Wharferdale and can you upload a zip of the eeprom
                        thanks


                        Originally posted by tom66 View Post
                        Well, sort of. I got a Wharferdale in which had the same power supply, but that one is a bit temperamental in powering up. I swapped the PSUs around, and the Goodmans powered up. Although I had erased the EEPROM beforehand, so it was very confused; it thought it was in Turkey and had two HDMI inputs and various extra features. Luckily, I made a copy of the EEPROM, so I'll restore that later.

                        Comment


                          Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                          Originally posted by FIXITNOW View Post
                          tom 66 what model eas you Wharferdale and can you upload a zip of the eeprom
                          thanks
                          I've only got a copy of the Goodmans EEPROM, you interested?

                          In most cases - you can reset the EEPROM from the service menu (MENU 4725 IIRC).
                          Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                          For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                          Comment


                            Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                            please it may be of help
                            cheers


                            Originally posted by tom66 View Post
                            I've only got a copy of the Goodmans EEPROM, you interested?

                            In most cases - you can reset the EEPROM from the service menu (MENU 4725 IIRC).

                            Comment


                              Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                              See attached. Zipped because Badcaps forum won't let me upload a txt or bin.

                              This has some channels programmed in and user customisations. It is NOT a factory default.

                              Most Vestel chassis TVs I have worked with will boot up with a blank eeprom. They will be a bit confused (usually the colours are off on the screen, panel sizes are wrong etc (usually thinks its a 1080p not 720p screen.)) But you can reset all this from the service menu.
                              Attached Files
                              Please do not PM me with questions! Questions via PM will not be answered. Post on the forums instead!
                              For service manual, schematic, boardview (board view), datasheet, cad - use our search.

                              Comment


                                Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                                thanks

                                Comment


                                  Re: 32" Goodmans TV

                                  The common problem with these boards are the 2 small caps on top left hand side of board...C877 and C878. Change these to 15nf 1600V.

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