HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

[PCBONEZ]

Does anyone know/recall the dates for the bad HM and HN Nichicon caps?

[Spacedye69]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

Sometime in 2003. I'm currently using ones from 06 and they work well.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

I understood it was 2002 to 2004 but I don't know the months.

I know Dell pulled all their Intel boards with them in March 2004 but that doesn't tell me when the bad caps stopped.

Not really concerned with new parts.
Wanna know to know which existing motherboards to expect HM/HN problems on.

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[PCBONEZ]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

Okay then.
Does anyone have a link to the news stories when Nichicon admitted the problem?
I might be able to estimate dates from those.

I have some boards w/2004 caps and I want to figure out if they are in the problem zone for time by the month.

[linuxguru]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

I've got access to H0533 date code HM(M)s, 3300/6.3/10mm at a very reasonable price - I can probably pick up a whole 1000-unit carton. Are these considered safe?

[kc8adu]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

i wouldnt risk it.
i have seen 06 datecodes blown.

[Krankshaft]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

They should just discontinue the series these caps have obtained a bad reputation that will always be in the back of everyone's minds.

Maybe they are so reasonably priced because they want to unload junk caps.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

Even Rubycons blow occasionally with a bad PSU or excessive heat.
One bad board here or there doesn't mean much no matter what the caps are.

Dell, who had the HN/HM problem with a number of their systems, issued a public statement that any of their system boards built after Feb of 04 would not have bad HN/HM caps.
-
About the same time Nichicon announced that all the faulty caps had been pulled from the supply channels. (Obviously they had stopped making whatever mistake by then.)
-

I don't know about early 04 but 05 date codes should be as safe as any other known good brand.

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[PCBONEZ]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

They should just discontinue the series these caps have obtained a bad reputation that will always be in the back of everyone's minds.

Maybe they are so reasonably priced because they want to unload junk caps.

I agree with the first part.
At least come up with a new name for the series to avoid confusion and rebuild buy confidence.

The ones before and after the mistake aren't junk though.
HN is comparable to MCZ and comes in sizes you can't get with that low of ESR in any other series. (All the way up to 5600uF in a 12.5mm can.)

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[linuxguru]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

Thanks, I'll take a chance and pick up a 100 or two - if they survive for a year in VRM/PSU use, I'll go back and see if I can snag the remaining stuff in the carton. It's not that easy to find ultra-low ESR 3300uF in 10mm - probably only Rubycon MCZ, a few series of Samxon - neither of which is readily available locally to me.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

6.3v 3300uF in 10mm aren't too hard to find here in MBZ.
Now 16v 3300uF in 10mm,, THAT'S a whole nuther story!!

[gdement]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

0429 HN:

For what it's worth, I have an Intel board with 3x 1000uF 10V 10mm Nichicon HN(M) caps on it. 1 of the 3 has exploded. They have 0429 date codes on them, but 1 of the good ones I can't actually read.

The one that exploded is next to the top PCI-ex slot (where a video card would be). I haven't actually confirmed what it's connected to though.

[kc8adu]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

they might be ok but why take the risk?
might be ok to grab some and put them in a tough app to test.
i mainly repair business and industrial stuff for folks who cannot tolerate downtime so i just buy parts with a good track record and be done with it.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

If you accept isolated instances as proof of anything you'll need to rule out everyone because dang near every series has a failed cap here and there.
That's kind of why I opened the thread.
If we have say 3 or 4 other reports of bad HM HN from mid 04 that might tell us something.

What gdement just did is kind of why I posted this thread.
To collect HM/HN dates of fails.

My 'for what it's worth'.
There is a 0526 date code on HM's in the wife's machine.
They are RIGHT next to the heatsink on a 2.8 GHz Prescott.
In her uATX case the cooling isn't the best.
(I hate that case but she won't let me take the hole saw or a drill bit to it...)
I bought the MoBo used.
Been up and running almost 24/7 with the Prescott for almost 2 years now.
No problems. - None.
.

gdement
On those 0429 HN, what was the PSU and what are/were the operating conditions.

The earliest fail I've been able to find is HM from 0135.
But that's the only 2001 dated fail I can find.
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1286

.

[Scenic]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

i have lots of failed desoldered HMs with 0214 datecode in my "bad caps example box" ...

[Scenic]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

shxt... took too long uploading the pics.. edit time limit -.-

notice the upper one slightly bulging..

[linuxguru]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

None of these will go into mission-critical stuff - it's just a useful ultra-low ESR series/value that will fit in places (Shuttle SV-24, Channel-Well PSUs, SFFs, etc.) where other series may not fit. It's certainly worth checking out whether Nichicon actually fixed the problem with the HMs - the only other 3300/6.3/10 mm series I have easy access to is Yageo (part of the Teapo conglomerate), so I'd be very happy if the 2005 HMs are good - I get them for the same price as the Yageo.

The first experiment will be on an i815T now running a Tualeron 1200 at 100 FSB - if I can get it to run stably at 133 FSB (1600 MHz), I'll be a happy camper.

[gdement]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

gdement
On those 0429 HN, what was the PSU and what are/were the operating conditions.

I don't know - I bought it and it's ram from somebody after it was dead. The ram was good but the board won't power on. It was supposed to have come from a brand name PC, something like Gateway or eMachines comes to mind, but I don't remember clearly. It's a microATX LGA775 P4 board, so I imagine it was a typical warm consumer box. Power connector is 24-pin, perhaps the likely PSU can be inferred assuming it was one of the above brands.

The 2 good caps are in the vicinity of RAM and the power input, the bad one is near the large PCIEx slot, where it could be buried under a video card. The Vcore caps are oscons.
So I can see how heat could have been a factor, or it could just be a random case of bad circuit design. It's an intel board though, they ought to know what they're doing... I hope.

I agree that one fail isn't much to go by, especially since I don't know the history. Unfortunately I don't have any other boards with HM/HN caps from 2004+.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

I'm thinking Nichicon had a ~REAL~ hard time selling them to anyone by mid 2004.
Probably just aren't that many around.

[kc8adu]

Re: HM HN, Dates for the bad boys?

found the 06 in several biostar p4 boards.
they were in different cases with different psu with no problems.
these were just starting to bulge.esr was .25
the cpu coolers were in good shape and not clogged.