Manson NP-9613

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

some photos :

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

some photos :

it can not go beyond 19V, everytime it hits 20V up, the relay is sounding and voltage drops....

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

it can not go beyond 19V, everytime it hits 20V up, the relay is sounding and voltage drops....

Is it possible that my TIP 41 transistor faulty, since it's working only 67% of the maximum ability ?

[R_J]

Re: Manson NP-9613

Does this power supply use two relays?
Check the transformer secondary windings, and the relay contacts, The transformer has 2 secondaries that supply the main voltage, for lower voltages (1~19) it uses one winding, then as the voltage is increased (19~30), the relay switches to the other set of windings. It looks like it uses 2 relays for that operation, one on each set of windings. You replaced one burnt zener diode, did you check the other zener?

You do look at your pictures before you post them correct?

Is it possible that my TIP 41 transistor faulty, since it's working only 67% of the maximum ability

Where is this transistor? what does it do?

[redwire]

Re: Manson NP-9613

If the output goes to zero when the high-tap relay clicks, then I would check the transformer winding and bad solder joints there and the relay contacts too. It's common the relay contacts arc and go bad.
Schematic for Manson NP-9603, NP-9613, NP-9605, NP-9615 power supply family, I found this, attached.
There is no TIP41 just a 2N3055 and TIP31C for a driver transistor.

To troubleshoot your previous work, note output (-) is control circuit common so puit your multimter (-) there when taking measurements. Check the rails -5.6V, +12V at ZD1 and ZD2, +15V at 78L15.

These Manson power supplies are pretty cheap and not tough at all. They blow up if you just look at them.

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

If the output goes to zero when the high-tap relay clicks, then I would check the transformer winding and bad solder joints there and the relay contacts too. It's common the relay contacts arc and go bad.
Schematic for Manson NP-9603, NP-9613, NP-9605, NP-9615 power supply family, I found this, attached.
There is no TIP41 just a 2N3055 and TIP31C for a driver transistor.

To troubleshoot your previous work, note output (-) is control circuit common so puit your multimter (-) there when taking measurements. Check the rails -5.6V, +12V at ZD1 and ZD2, +15V at 78L15.

These Manson power supplies are pretty cheap and not tough at all. They blow up if you just look at them.

My bad, it's TIP 31C, I was thinking it's the relay, because it looks burn on the bottom,
but there are two 2N3055 on my manson and no LM339 as far as I can see on the board...
Thanks for the suggestion, let me check the voltage,

I check at the relay1 output =1V and relay output2 = 2, when the output voltage hit 20V and going down....

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

can I replace the relay with this :
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-pieces-M...75.c100623.m-1

I can not find exact match with the one on the board....

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

Does this power supply use two relays?
Check the transformer secondary windings, and the relay contacts, The transformer has 2 secondaries that supply the main voltage, for lower voltages (1~19) it uses one winding, then as the voltage is increased (19~30), the relay switches to the other set of windings. It looks like it uses 2 relays for that operation, one on each set of windings. You replaced one burnt zener diode, did you check the other zener?

You do look at your pictures before you post them correct?
Where is this transistor? what does it do?

Here are some observation I had done :
Output = 12V
ZD1 = 24V
ZD2= 12V

Output = 3.8V
ZD1 = 16.48V
ZD2= 3.8V

Output = 17.18V
ZD1 = 29.74V
ZD2= 17.17V

Output = 17.46V
ZD1 = 30.06V
ZD2= 17.47V

Beyond 17.46V, it will stay awhile then voltage drop, relay click and return to the voltage desired...

[R_J]

Re: Manson NP-9613

You are not using the correct ground to measure these voltages, You need to use the POSITVE OUTPUT TERMINAL
ZD1 is a 12 volt zener, If you measure 24 volts across it, you used the ground and not common, or it is defective. Same for ZD2, it is a 5.6 volt zener, With its cathode to common it is the negative 5.6v supply for U1.
These voltage are constant and WILL NOT CHANGE with the Variable output voltage

Another thing to check is the AC across C1 (or the ~~ pins of BR1). Check this AC voltage, then when the relay clicks, see what happens to this AC voltage

[redwire]

Re: Manson NP-9613

oops my bad PSU output (+) is the common for the op-amps and control power, typed it wrong.
Either way, the voltage difference across ZD2 5.6V seems to be zero, for the op-amp's -ve rail. I would say there's a problem there, maybe it is shorted or the 4558 is. But you say the PSU works fine on the low voltage tap.

The LM339 is only for temperature control of the fan and an overheat shutdown, maybe the 5A version got it.

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

You are not using the correct ground to measure these voltages, You need to use the POSITVE OUTPUT TERMINAL
ZD1 is a 12 volt zener, If you measure 24 volts across it, you used the ground and not common, or it is defective. Same for ZD2, it is a 5.6 volt zener, With its cathode to common it is the negative 5.6v supply for U1.
These voltage are constant and WILL NOT CHANGE with the Variable output voltage

Another thing to check is the AC across C1 (or the ~~ pins of BR1). Check this AC voltage, then when the relay clicks, see what happens to this AC voltage

Ok, I will check,

I used common on the output, which ground should I use ? thanks

[R_J]

Re: Manson NP-9613

You can use the POSITIVE terminal of the power supplies (0~30v) output. So put your meter ground on the Positive terminal, then you can check the voltages on the zeners etc.

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

You can use the POSITIVE terminal of the power supplies (0~30v) output. So put your meter ground on the Positive terminal, then you can check the voltages on the zeners etc.

I got 12.41V and 5.6V on the zener, so could it be the issue with relays ?

[R_J]

Re: Manson NP-9613

I told you how to check the voltage going to the relays (this also checks the relays) here is a picture of what to do. This should be easier then removing them and testing them.
I will only guess there are two relays and I they may switch at different times based on the output voltage.
If the relay contacts are bad you should measure the AC likeI pointed out when the DC output is low (less than 19v) then as you increase the control to increase the voltage and the relay clicks, If the AC voltage drops, one of the relays contacts are bad. (ore the transformer winding is open) or bad connection from transformer to relay somwhere.

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

I told you how to check the voltage going to the relays (this also checks the relays) here is a picture of what to do. This should be easier then removing them and testing them.
I will only guess there are two relays and I they may switch at different times based on the output voltage.
If the relay contacts are bad you should measure the AC likeI pointed out when the DC output is low (less than 19v) then as you increase the control to increase the voltage and the relay clicks, If the AC voltage drops, one of the relays contacts are bad. (ore the transformer winding is open) or bad connection from transformer to relay somwhere.

Ok, let me check and get back to you, thanks

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

I told you how to check the voltage going to the relays (this also checks the relays) here is a picture of what to do. This should be easier then removing them and testing them.
I will only guess there are two relays and I they may switch at different times based on the output voltage.
If the relay contacts are bad you should measure the AC likeI pointed out when the DC output is low (less than 19v) then as you increase the control to increase the voltage and the relay clicks, If the AC voltage drops, one of the relays contacts are bad. (ore the transformer winding is open) or bad connection from transformer to relay somwhere.

It could have been the transformer, since I rotated until 20V and no more voltage increasing on the point you gave me, and the pot was maximum...

if the transformer winding is opened....difficult..

[R_J]

Re: Manson NP-9613

When you say "no more voltage increasing" That AC voltage will be constant untill the relay clicks? OR did the voltage drop to 0? It can't just stay the same if the relay clicks, if it does then the relays are not switching at all.

What is the AC voltage on those points on the transformer? I will guess what they are and you can check them. (you don't need to adjust the dc output pot)

Provide pictures of the transformer and the relays and how they are connected

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

When you say "no more voltage increasing" That AC voltage will be constant untill the relay clicks? OR did the voltage drop to 0? It can't just stay the same if the relay clicks, if it does then the relays are not switching at all.

What is the AC voltage on those points on the transformer? I will guess what they are and you can check them. (you don't need to adjust the dc output pot)

Provide pictures of the transformer and the relays and how they are connected

I got
13V 23V and 33V on the transformer voltage...

[bianchi77]

Re: Manson NP-9613

When you say "no more voltage increasing" That AC voltage will be constant untill the relay clicks? OR did the voltage drop to 0? It can't just stay the same if the relay clicks, if it does then the relays are not switching at all.

What is the AC voltage on those points on the transformer? I will guess what they are and you can check them. (you don't need to adjust the dc output pot)

Provide pictures of the transformer and the relays and how they are connected

is it possible that 4700uF caps going bad ? making the output drop ?

[R_J]

Re: Manson NP-9613

I got
13V 23V and 33V on the transformer voltage...

How do you measure 3 different voltages on 2 points? Or is that voltage measured across C1 as you turn up the voltage control? You need to explain what your doing.

One thing I wonder is when you advance the voltage control between 0 and 19 volts, during that variation, do you ever here one of the relays click?


There is nothing wrong with the 4700µf. even if its value droped to 1000µf, the voltage would not drop because you are not drawing any real current from the power supply at the moment.