core2 duo vs core2 quad

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

Desktop Pentium Dual-Core have either a Allendale or a Wolfdale core.
Thus they ~are~ Core-2 architecture - they just aren't branded/advertised that way.
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I know. they are one armed core2 duos. celerons are armless core2 duos.

[toastygoodness]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

Desktop Pentium Dual-Core have either a Allendale or a Wolfdale core.
Thus they ~are~ Core-2 architecture - they just aren't branded/advertised that way.
.

Yep, exactly. There are some cache differences, but either way, go for the dual-core. Quad-core won't give you any benefit unless you do that much parallel computing (which vista isn't particularly good at).

[Mad_Professor]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

no, I never said that. I did ask about graphics.

I didn't ask about OCing my system. that was may point of complaint

for your info, if I can find a decent graphics card w/o killing the bank, then I will go that route first. they key word being IF.

Do you game heavily? If not, and assuming you're running linux, a GTS 450 will do it. They run about $100-140, a GTX 550 runs about 120-180 both on newegg. Newegg also has a GTX-460 for $150 made by evga. Frankly I have 4 EVGA cards and only had to RMA the 7800 once due to memory failure. The replacement hasn't given any problems in my mythtv box.

The only issue I have is heat. My GTX260 runs hot. Up in the 55*C range at 65% fan speed and when running a game it will get to 80*C, and if anyone says bad sensors, I dare them to crack an egg on my cards. Even touching the casing they are in, they are fucking hot. At least it vents the heat out the back of case where the card i/o shield has vents.

I even seen this card hit 95*C at one time, but it was a hot day.

I've had this card for almost 3 years, you can tell it was built well if it can handle high temps for that long.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

this system runs vista 32 bit, mainly due to issues regarding the tv tuner.

I do some gaming, mainly supertuxkart and torcs, and I may do more gaming in the future.

as for card price, assume that I am buying used, since I am on a tight budget. heck half the reason the exisitng parts are in the system are because it was the cheapest parts I could find that would make it run. I used to have it made with an athlon 64 x2 rig but the damned asus board died and all I had for a system was the intel board that I was given 6 months prior; the ram and cpu were stuff a member had that I got for a total of $50 to make the system usable. (thank god I still had the 775 kit to my cooler). hence why the GPU is kinda old and the performance level of the parts is all over the place. in fact, after intial board testing, the system was so bottlenecked by t heram that the hdd was stolen out of it for use in an imac G5. It wasn't until I saved enough that I was able to get a new hdd, dvd burner, card reader, and ram stick to make it run right (in between those times I acquired the 950W psu as a freebie needing recapped). even now, it has been on the back burner due to my laptops seeing more usage and being more mission critical.

anyway, one Idea I had was to try to find a good deal on a newer GPU with bad caps that I could recap... I have the caps and whatnot, but not the GPU...

[Scenic]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

My system is overclocked "a bit" (Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 @ 3.6) and it's still perfectly quiet.
Unlike those intel boards with no OC features whatsoever and weird to nonexistant fan controlling, a proper board can combine OC and being quiet.

Unless I'm really torturing my CPU, the fan is bored to death at 800-850rpm.

As for the CPU (if you really want to waste money on that), look for a Pentium Dualcore E5xxx or E6xxx series. They're no comparison to the older E21xx and E22xx Pentium Dualcores (more cache and significantly faster).
If it really has to be a Core 2 Duo, the E7xxx or E8xxx series is the way to go, but they're a lot more expensive.

But yeah.. the old 65nm Core2 based CPUs overclock like mad *if* they're on a proper board, while still being quiet with a halfway decent cooler (even the stock intel ones with copper cores). That's mostly because you can easily get 1GHz more with very little or no voltage increase at all.

Like my old E4300 1.8 @ 3GHz with stock VCore.
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=600052
All I did on that one was increase the FSB from 200MHz (800 Quadpumped) to roughly 333MHz (1333 Quadpumped), and adjust the RAM speed divider, so the RAM still runs as DDR2-800.
Even with only a "mild" overclock like setting the FSB from 200MHz to 266MHz, you'd still end up with 1.8GHz -> 2.4GHz. And that even worked on the crappy ASRock board that CPU used to be on before lol.

I'm still thinking intel abandoned S775 and the Core2 architecture simply because they overclocked so incredibly well and people were just buying the cheap CPUs and OC the hell out of them, instead of spending more on a better one -> loss for intel. The Core i-series are almost crippled in that regard. Way more limitations and brickwalls you'll run into trying to OC those. Not saying that it's impossible, but considerably more complicated.. Now guess why.. *cough*

As for the graphics card.. you can get pretty darn decent ones dirt cheap if you know what models to look for.
I've been looking for a new graphics card for a guy I know, cause he doesn't really have a clue about it. I saw HD3850s or HD3870s for $40 shipped.. sometimes even less
For the price/performance ratio, that's pretty much a no-brainer (seeing how your PSU certainly won't be a problem lol)

http://cgi.ebay.com/220921236129
http://cgi.ebay.com/250952662887
http://cgi.ebay.com/220911299139
http://cgi.ebay.com/300640289879

card comparison to get a clue of what's what..
http://www.pc-erfahrung.de/grafikkar...rangliste.html

I currently have a Sapphire HD3850 512MB in the OCed Core 2 Duo E4300 box i posted a link to above and it's capable of playing GTA IV at 34fps average in medium details. That card cost me 25eur (roughly 32usd) on ebay, the rest of the system was cobbled together from leftover parts or dirt cheap ebay finds (I've got my tricks for searching).

Looking at the specs again, the GPU seems to be the main bottleneck, followed by 2GB RAM in combination with vista.

The 7600GT is ranked #133 in the comparison chart, and easily gets beaten by the lowest end new cards you can buy, like a Geforce G210 ($30 new) or a HD5450 (also $30 new)

Pretty much any card from the past 3 years is an upgrade from a 7600GT.


Random stuff I don't know where to put but still want to mention:
- Your cooler seems to be damn close (in terms of specs) to the one I've got on my Core 2 Quad (tower cooler with 92mm fan, yours being a coolermaster TX3, mine is an Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro). That's more than plenty for any S775 Core2 based dualcore out there.
- the intel P35 needs at least DDR2-667/PC2-5300 (if you go shopping for more or faster RAM, like this Kit for example)
- I've bought my Q6600 for ~80eur shipped (roughly 103usd) well over 2 years ago on ebay. Seems like it still goes for roughly that price, even on the other side of the big pond (click and click)
- CPU suggestion if you really want to upgraded it: Pentium Dualcore E5x00. Good bang for the buck, even without OC..
http://cgi.ebay.com/330661274578
http://cgi.ebay.com/320820083123
http://cgi.ebay.com/150728255491
http://cgi.ebay.com/280799313542

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

ok, so my board is trash I guess... IDK. I just don't like tossing a perfectly stable board.
and yes, it does have good fan controlling...

It looks like my sytem needs more work than I thought... dang it sucks being a poor college student... but we'll leave it at that.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

ok, so my board is trash I guess... IDK. I just don't like tossing a perfectly stable board.
and yes, it does have good fan controlling...

It looks like my sytem needs more work than I thought... dang it sucks being a poor college student...

From what I see here...
There's nothing wrong with the board except to support some particular game.
If you're money is really that tight play a different game.
There are 1000's to choose from...
.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I've decided not to touch the system until i have the $$$ to do it right, which I do not.

besides, all it ever gets used for is gaming and the occasional web surf and photo edit... my laptop (the D630 everybody seems to "love") sees much more use and it is the real workhorse... and the $ I have will likely be headed there for a new battery...

[shovenose]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I've decided not to touch the system until i have the $$$ to do it right, which I do not.

besides, all it ever gets used for is gaming and the occasional web surf and photo edit... my laptop (the D630 everybody seems to "love") sees much more use and it is the real workhorse... and the $ I have will likely be headed there for a new battery...

i'd be curious to know how much $$$ you've spent on the D630.
Not because I'm going to say "what a waste" (I won't), I'm just curious how much it costs to maintain a laptop like that.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

not much, actually:

$250- original unit
$7- wireless N upgrade chip
$x- bluetooth module (pulled from old dell)

$50- backpack (was origianlly $100), but that was partiall for school as well

all it could use is a better battery (it has a 6 cell unit with at least 35% wear)

I also was also able to use the same port replicator that I used with my old laptop.

[grss1982]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

No. - Not worth it.
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With that Video and 2GB RAM on Vista a CPU with 4 cores isn't going to make much difference over a 2 core.
.
A dual core [or C2D] with a faster FSB might be worth it, but a quad core, ~ nah.
Once you have the FSB speeded up going from 2 to 4 core would be severely diminished returns on your $$$s.
Yeah a 4 core might be faster ~with some apps~ but you improvement per $ spent would be crap.
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Were it me I'd keep an eye open for a good deal on an E6550 or E6750.
The FSB and bigger cache will give you a big boost from where you are now.
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How about a second hand E8xxx C2D? Just got myself an E8500 recently and the difference from my E6420 was very noticeable.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

How about a second hand E8xxx C2D? Just got myself an E8500 recently and the difference from my E6420 was very noticeable.

You took the FSB form 1066 to 1333.
Your RAM runs faster now. That's where you got much of your improvement.
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The FSB is still a bottleneck.
A faster CPU on the same FSB basically means the CPU is faster to be waiting on the RAM.
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It's not as bad with the Core 2 as it was with the old socket 478 P4's though.
And a big jump in CPU clock is obviously going to show improvement. (You went up over 1GHz.)
.

[mariushm]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I'd say it's more related to the L2 cache increase from 4 MB to 6 MB and the frequency increase, from 2.13 to 3.16 Ghz
The 8500 also supports SSE4.1 in addition to what E6420 supports but other than some image rendering programs or video processing software, it's not relevant.

His signature lists 2x1GB 533 Mhz memory so if that's the case, raising the CPU FSB could even hurt memory performance a bit as now they're not in sync (1066 vs 1333 mhz) but in real world, the differences are very small.

[Uranium-235]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

FSB in the case of the LGA 775 is your main issue cause i'll say it again, you're depending on a northbridge chip for memory transfers

go with a cheap AM3 board and a athlon x3/x4. leaves more room for expandability too cause ddr3 is dirt cheap, and they now have normal (non registered) 8gb sticks

[PCBONEZ]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I missed the cache difference.
That probably has more to do with it [in real world apps] than either the clock or the FSB.
.
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I remember ~waaaay~ back when I was refurbishing P-II laptops.
The available options included 300Mhz w/512 cache and 400Mhz w/256 cache.
The 400Mhz were EXPENSIVE and the 300Mhz were cheap.
I did some testing with a 300Mhz w/256 cache as a reference.
The 300Mhz with twice the cache did better than upping the CPU clock by 1/3 with the 400Mhz.
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I saw the same kind of thing with P4.
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The difference is not as pronounced with Core architecture, but in so far as 'real world apps' being the concern, I'd still rather have more cache and/or more FSB than more CPU speed. [Well, as long as the CPU is at least 2Ghz I'm happy. After that I look at cache and FSB.]
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>> so if that's the case, raising the CPU FSB could even hurt memory performance a bit as now they're not in sync <<
No, all that does is guarantee the CPU is ready and waiting on -every- FSB clock.
Using faster RAM would improve things even more though.
.
.
I just got my hands on a few E3110 which are basically Xeon branded E8400 for socket 775.
[The differences are things almost no one cares about, including me.]
Haven't had a chance to tinker with then though.
I -do- know my favorite Abit board supports them. [Checked before buying.]
.
I'm actually entirely happy with my E4500's for what I do but,,, I'm a PC geek..
What can I say?...
.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

FYI- my ram is 667mhz, not 533mhz.

[mariushm]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I was talking about grss1982's reply and his signature.

[ratdude747]

Re: core2 duo vs core2 quad

I was talking about grss1982's reply and his signature.

my bad there.