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Old 08-07-2017, 12:49 PM   #1
OxyoN31
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Default XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Hey all,
This is my first thread.

I've got an original Xbox V1.6b with bulging caps. They are Nichicon HM 3300uF 6.3V caps with date code H0434. From what I've been reading, these may have been manufactured during a faulty period. Either way, there are 5 caps on the board, and all 5 are bloated.

Everything that i have been able to find in these forums suggests specific replacements for these caps (Sanyo WG, Rubycon MBZ or MCZ, or Panasonic FL or FJ), but I can't find any of them anymore as they are all obsolete. See http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12863

The HMs (http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdf/e-hm.pdf) don't have a listed ESR, but they do have a high ripple current and low impedance which is difficult to find a replacement for (at least on digikey). Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to use to replace these caps? Or where to find said replacements?

Thanks for any help in advance.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

The ESR is listed in the datasheet, it is 0.012
This would be a good replacement:

http://www.badcaps.net/store/product...products_id=30
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Old 08-28-2019, 04:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Hope it's okay to resurrect an old thread. I'm looking for these caps as well.

I found this replacement but, one needs to buy 800 pieces to order:

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...25S-ND/1927448

Wonder if anyone has another suggestion.

Thanks!
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

kzgs?! those are no good. they often fail without being used and they cant take the heat. get panasonic fs/fr instead. they will work fine.
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

fr wont work, it's VRM
@Natetronn: post a foto of the board.

Last edited by stj; 08-28-2019 at 06:55 PM..
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Old 08-31-2019, 07:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Thanks for the replies! Not sure why I didn't get a notification. I'll look into that.

Having not realized you all replied I posted the following in another thread (hope that's cool?)

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...00&postcount=8

I may have found some other replacements but, well, see the post above for more details.

I'll post up a pic asap.

Thanks again...
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Old 08-31-2019, 07:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Here are some images:

https://imgur.com/a/bX9iHmP
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

for the 4 along the bottom, use these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909529195.html

for the 3 below the cpu, you may get away with them but i would get some 2000 or 2700 uf ones myself.
worth trying the 1500's though.

what's the rating on the one above the cpu?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg x1.jpg (746.2 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg x2.jpg (705.3 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg x3.jpg (732.4 KB, 18 views)
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Old 09-01-2019, 03:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

btw, if the powersupply is the foxlink model, replace the 1200uf caps.
they fail without any external signs.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
btw, if the powersupply is the foxlink model, replace the 1200uf caps.
they fail without any external signs.
I'll respond to your previous comment here in a second but, I'll hit this one first.

Thanks for the tip!

I have some earlier version boxes with the foxlinks. At least one, anyway.

Is there some articles on how to better understand the numbers, at least enough to find replacements on my own? Or is it best just to return to bad caps all the time and ask all the electrical engineers of the world instead? I mean, I'd like to not have to bother you guys all the time.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
for the 4 along the bottom, use these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32909529195.html

for the 3 below the cpu, you may get away with them but i would get some 2000 or 2700 uf ones myself.
worth trying the 1500's though.

what's the rating on the one above the cpu?
That one above the CPU is a Richicon 1500uF 6.3v ZL 105C T0435.

"For the 4 along the bottom"

The two largest ones on the bottom left of the board are the same as the one above the CPU that you asked me about; Richicon 1500uF 6.3v ZL 105C T0435.

The two next to the power connector is the same as the 3 below the CPU, though.

Are you saying I should use the ones from Aliexpress for all 4 of those (2 bottom left, 2 bottom right?) even though they are different ratings?

I don't mind just trusting your advice, as this is the very first adventure down the cap rabbit hole for me and I have to start somewhere but, sure would be nice to better understand how all this stuff works. Any suggestions or direction on how to better understand the numbers? I mean, had there been 1 to 1 replacements I would have just gone out and picked those up and been done with it but, the fact that these have been discontinued has complicated things a bit.

Either way, thanks for the help!

Last edited by Natetronn; 09-01-2019 at 10:19 AM.. Reason: Adding a thank you.
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Old 09-01-2019, 06:21 PM   #12
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

pokymer caps are superior replacements for high-end electrolytics and because they are better, most makers have discontinued making high-end electrolytics.

for the cpu on older boxes with 5 caps i have used 1000uf caps - so 5000uf and they work great.
you only have 3 spaces, so using 1500uf gives 4500uf but it's only a Pentium3 running at 733Mhz so it's probably o.k.
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Old 09-01-2019, 06:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
pokymer caps are superior replacements for high-end electrolytics and because they are better, most makers have discontinued making high-end electrolytics.

for the cpu on older boxes with 5 caps i have used 1000uf caps - so 5000uf and they work great.
you only have 3 spaces, so using 1500uf gives 4500uf but it's only a Pentium3 running at 733Mhz so it's probably o.k.


Okay, thanks!

When you say probably o.k.? What's the worse that could happen? Note: this is a Halo Green Special Edition so, really hoping to get this right lol.

Is there a 2000uF I could used instead to get 6000uF for the 3 near the CPU?

Then for the one at top and the four on the bottom go with the 1500s that you sent in the link above from Aliexpress correct?

Last edited by Natetronn; 09-01-2019 at 06:38 PM.. Reason: added quote
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
fr wont work, it's VRM
Pretty sure it will.
Like you said, it's a Pentium 3 CPU.

Personally, I'd mix polies with regular 'lytics: 'lytics for capacitance and 1 or 2 polies for low ESR.
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Old 09-02-2019, 03:22 AM   #15
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natetronn View Post
Okay, thanks!

When you say probably o.k.? What's the worse that could happen?
worst that could happen is just random crashes.

you should get this too.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862870959.html
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Old 09-02-2019, 10:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Quote:
Originally Posted by stj View Post
worst that could happen is just random crashes.

you should get this too.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32862870959.html
I woke up thinking about how am I going to get the holes cleaned out. Was thinking some braid but, this is much better lol. Thanks!
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Hi Nate,
Not sure if you are still interested in the info in this thread (or still active on BCN), but I was trying to reply to your PM regarding this thread and got an error message saying that you do not wish to receive PMs from members. Just and FYI.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

Hi momaka, I didn't realize that option was turned off. I've since turned it back on to receive messages from members.
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Old 11-03-2019, 12:04 AM   #19
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

This conversation was continued in a PM exchange with momaka and myself:

Quote:
Originally Posted by momaka
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natetronn
Anyway, I would still like some information, if you're willing to help out still.
No problems at all.

Sorry it took me so long to write you back a reply anyways (both to the original and this PM.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natetronn
I've since bought those 1500 caps that stl suggested but, I'm still a bit confused about the whole thing. It's possible I'm overthinking it all but, this is for my Halo Special Edition and I'd like to get it right.
They will more than likely work just fine, I'm sure, as stj has probably done a few of these Xboxes already.

In any case, here is my original reply regarding your previous PM
-------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natetronn
Knowing nothing about capacitors, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind elaborating on this comment of yours a bit:

https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showpo...3&postcount=14

You said you'd mix and match? Which capacitors would you use for which spots?
By mix and match, what I mean is you can use polymer capacitors and electrolytic capacitors in the same circuit - that is anywhere you have capacitors in parallel.

For example, for the three (3) Nichicon HM 3300 uF 6.3V caps by the CPU... all of these are in parallel and filter the CPU V_core rail. This means, the CPU VRM circuit sees these three caps as one giant 9900 uF (3300 uF x 3) cap with ESR of 4 mOhms (each Nichicon cap has 12 mOhms ESR, so the total ESR is the inverse of (1/12) + (1/12) + (1/12). )

Generally, it is a good idea to keep the capacitance more or less close to the original, unless the VRM circuit is designed for a wide range of output capacitance (which, going by the small # of turns on that coil next to those caps, looks like it will be OK.) And for the ESR, try to keep it similar to the original or lower.

With those two in mind, you could use something like one or two 3900 uF or 4700 uF Panasonic FR or FS electrolytic capacitors and one or two 1000-1800 uF polymer caps.

Let's say you take two 6.3V 4700 uF Panasonic FS capacitors (Digikey P/N: EEU-FS0J472), like this:
https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...351-ND/7381217

The total capacitance is already 4700+4700 = 9400 uF, and you still have one free cap spot to fill in.

You could fill the 3rd cap spot with something like a Nichicon FPCAP RR5 or RR7 series (5 and 7 mOhms ESR, respectively.) Let's say you go with a 6.3V 1000 uF FPCAP RR7 (Digikey P/N: 493-3710-ND):
https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...710-ND/2207246

Now the total capacitance for the CPU V_core rail will be 4700 + 4700 + 1000 = 10400 uF.... Just a tad bit higher than the original capacitance, which is not a bad thing at all.

Meanwhile, the ESR of the three parallel caps of the above example will yield:
R = inv ( 1/18 mOhms + 1/18 mOhms + 1/7 mOhms) = 3.9375 mOhms ESR. Compare this to the original 4 mOhms equivalent ESR of the three 3300 uF Nichicon HM cap in parallel - it's as about as close to the original specs as you can get!

The above example is by no means the only way to mix (i.e. what I meant by "mix-n-match") electrolytic and polymer caps. You could have also done two 1500/1800 uF polymer caps and one 4700 uF electrolytic for a slightly decreased combined capacitance of 8300 uF (which is still within 20% of the original, so this won't matter at all), but with the benefit of much lower total ESR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natetronn
Also, suppose I was going to overclock the CPU, say upping it 100mhz or so, to 824mhz, for example, which caps would be ideal for that and what's the most important part as far as that goes? The ripple current?
There really isn't a universal answer for that.
Actually, the caps may not matter too much. If anything, the max overclock and stability you get will depend mostly on the chip silicon itself: some dies are just lousy at overclocking, while others have no problems whatsoever. It will come down to a bit of luck there, unfortunately.

Generally, increasing the capacitance slightly and reducing the total ESR of the circuit -might- allow for a slightly better overclock. So this is why I generally try to keep the capacitance the same.

Not all VRM designs care about keeping the capacitance the same, though. Some will be just as happy (and OC just as well) with reduced total capacitance if the total ESR is still the same or lower.

Hope this info helps.

I might also post it in the thread, if you don't mind (and when I have time), so that way, anyone who may come by and have the same questions could see this info.

Anyways, happy cappin' and cheers!
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Old 11-03-2019, 05:33 AM   #20
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Default Re: XBOX V1.6 with bad caps

there is no point trying to overclock an xbox - it wont work.
people have replaced the cpu,

but the best boost is to start with an older board and add the extra ram to it.
then you go from 64meg to 128meg.
but even then, not much uses it.
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