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Old 11-21-2017, 01:21 AM   #101
AresROC
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Yes, the power supply is an issue. The newer PS210 is rated 150w RMS, 210w "Average RMS", 300w "Marketing RMS" and 500w Peak dynamic, very generous ratings indeed with the same power supply as the PS-10/PS-12. PS210 have 2SK3594 MOSFETs instead of IRF640.

Attaching an external Class D Amp with this PS-12's power supply is just the last resort.

I also have a Behringer A500 Class A/B sitting around doing nothing... might be worth a try to see if the amp is a limiting factor to my dual subs reaching only 37Hz -3dB... It does do 25Hz -10dB with Audyssey.
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Old 11-27-2017, 03:54 PM   #102
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

The clipping noise returned... looking to replace the TIP-31C 15v power regulator transistor now... the fun never ends on this one!
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:07 PM   #103
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

budm you are the man!!!!!!!!!!! C37 was bad. Thank you
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:17 AM   #104
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

I have a 12" Infinity Entra Sub Two that appears to be the same sub with the same built in amplifier as the PS-12. I'll be pulling the amp out to inspect and replace components as required. Lots of good info here!
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:07 PM   #105
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Really not seeing any bad caps other than the 2 large 3300uF caps. Ordered replacements for them. I might just purchase all of the cylindrical electrolytic caps like some have suggested here. I'm assuming that's what folks are referring to when recommending the replacement of all caps.

I'm thinking I will also replace Q3 and Q4 as suggested here. My amplifier doesn't appear to have the same issue with the blown cap on the back side. What is causing that to happen? Can I do something to prevent this damage?
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Old 03-05-2018, 03:25 PM   #106
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by AresROC View Post
Wow, got it pretty much figured out finally!

Replaced Q2 & Q3. Clean bass all day long! See my fixes here: http://zenlog.wordpress.com/2017/11/...-repair-ps-12/

One lingering issue remains. My right sub turns on to standby mode. Left sub turns on to ON mode right away. The service manual actually doesn't say which mode it should turn on to. Not a big issue...

Very tempting to upgrade this Amp from 150 watt to 250/500 watt
AresROC, you mentioned the following components in your blog. What reference designators are these parts replacing?

"TIP41C, IRF640NPBF, IRFB38N20DPBF, IRFB4227PBF"

Thanks!
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:01 PM   #107
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Apparently I found a dead thread...

I haven't had much time to work on the PS-12, but I did add standoffs per a different forum with a small desk fan blowing into the opening to keep it cool.

I'm still planning to update/swap components when time allows.
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:55 PM   #108
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr_ece View Post
Apparently I found a dead thread...

I haven't had much time to work on the PS-12, but I did add standoffs per a different forum with a small desk fan blowing into the opening to keep it cool.

I'm still planning to update/swap components when time allows.
From what I can tell, IRF640NPBF is an exact replacement for IRF640N. So I'm going to guess that what AresROC did for 'upgrades' is:

Original -> New -> Location
TIP31C -> T1P41C -> Q4
IRF640N -> IRFB38N20DPB, IRFB4227PBF -> Q18, Q22

I'm further guessing that AresROC first used the IRFB38N20DPBF on one sub, then later the IRFB4227PBF on the other. IRFB4227PBF has higher specs than IRFB38N20DPBF. Both are rated higher than IRF640NPBF. I'll stick with the stock part and focus on airflow.

I didn't see that any specific transistors (Q2, Q3) were mentioned in the wordpress post or on this thread. I'm not sure if I will replace these, but I am planning to use:

Original -> New -> Location
MPSW06RLRA -> 610-CEN-U07 -> Q2
MPSW56RLRA -> 610-CEN-U57 -> Q3

I would have used 610-CEN-U06 and 610-CEN-U56 instead, but they aren't stocked anywhere I can buy them with the additional caps I'm buying. I plan on replacing the caps mentioned in this thread as they are old.

As an FYI, my sub doesn't put power out to the sub. No sound comes from the sub, but the auto signal detect appears working (LED switches color and switch connects). I have +15 and -15 rails working correctly (so I probably do not need to replace Q2 and Q3). I'll likely change them out anyway. The burn spot near the 2.4K 5W resistors (R6, R7A, R9, R9A) looks ok. I'm only using a cheap multi-meter to test, so I can't do much AC analysis. I hope there isn't a problem with the ICs. I hate removing ICs.
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Old 04-16-2018, 02:58 PM   #109
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Jiari,
Thanks for the response and info!

I think I'll replace the transistors you listed in addition to the major caps.

I just quickly went through all 6 pages and found the following caps mentioned as candidates:

C2
C4
C6
C8
C9
C12
C35
C37
C65
C71
C72
C73
C78

There are a few that need to be evaluated for higher voltage and correct farad value depending on board revision.

I don't know if this covers "all" as mentioned in post such as #45 and #80 or not. It sounds like replacing this list of caps plus the transistors you clarified should fix just about any one of these subs. I would like to get an order together soon.

Last edited by Jr_ece; 04-16-2018 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:00 PM   #110
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr_ece View Post
Jiari,
Thanks for the response and info!

I think I'll replace the transistors you listed in addition to the major caps.

I just quickly went through all 6 pages and found the following caps mentioned as candidates:


There are a few that need to be evaluated for higher voltage and correct farad value depending on board revision.

I don't know if this covers "all" as mentioned in post such as #45 and #80 or not. It sounds like replacing this list of caps plus the transistors you clarified should fix just about any one of these subs. I would like to get an order together soon.
OOops. I should have checked actual board values before I ordered.

Before you go replacing parts, why not do some quick DMM tests? I was able to verify that one of my IRF640N's and the MPSW06RLRA was bad (even though I did have +15 and -15). Google testing of MOSFETs with a DMM for the IRF640N's and testing BJT. I did the testing on the board (which isn't ideal, but given the symmetric layout, I expected to get similar results for both pairs and did not get similar results). Therefore the tested item was either bad or had bad components around them. At least you'll have more confidence that replacing these parts will make an impact. I did these test with the amp unplugged for over an hour.

There are a multitude of things that can go wrong. Without a proper O-scope or some kind of probe+speaker setup, it's really hard to tell what's going wrong on the circuit.

Even if you replace everything everyone on this thread has, it's not a guarantee that an IC didn't crap out on you.

I plan on replacing everything, but leaving the IRF640N's and TIP31C off the board. I'm going to just probe the power supplies to make sure they are ok before even trying to install those parts. I would suggest you do the same. Find a convenient spot on the board to test the rails.

Also, I have an EE degree, though I haven't been one in over 10 years. I'm assuming you have some training as well. If you do not, please be extremely careful.
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:29 PM   #111
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

All good points.

My thought behind replacing the major electrolytic caps is due to the heat exposure they've had from lack of proper cooling. Aging or complete cap failure can cause a handful of things to occur. My sub has 2 or 3 issues that I think replacing caps will fix.

1) The squeal on power up issue. This one seems pretty cut and dry.
2) The sub will not come out of standby until volume is turned up to at least moderate levels if not quite loud.
3) The sub will go back to standby if volume is reduced to something less than moderate levels. With music it tends to stay engaged. With movies the sub can be heard squealing out of standby mode when an action scene or intense music elevates the volume. Annoying.

The thought behind replacing the transistors is to see if perhaps they are also performing sub par from heat or aging, and new ones might tighten the bass a bit. This seems to be the benefit based on AresROC's blog and forum posts. Am I misreading this information or is it something else that could contribute to softer bass?
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Old 05-08-2018, 09:21 AM   #112
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr_ece View Post
All good points.

My thought behind replacing the major electrolytic caps is due to the heat exposure they've had from lack of proper cooling. Aging or complete cap failure can cause a handful of things to occur. My sub has 2 or 3 issues that I think replacing caps will fix.

1) The squeal on power up issue. This one seems pretty cut and dry.
2) The sub will not come out of standby until volume is turned up to at least moderate levels if not quite loud.
3) The sub will go back to standby if volume is reduced to something less than moderate levels. With music it tends to stay engaged. With movies the sub can be heard squealing out of standby mode when an action scene or intense music elevates the volume. Annoying.

The thought behind replacing the transistors is to see if perhaps they are also performing sub par from heat or aging, and new ones might tighten the bass a bit. This seems to be the benefit based on AresROC's blog and forum posts. Am I misreading this information or is it something else that could contribute to softer bass?
Replacing caps due to expected aging makes sense. I'm still not 100% convinced that the transistors and MOSFETs are going to go bad unless something else fried them, but since the board is open, it's a low cost change. I'm planning to replace almost all the same components myself. For me, I'm worried about ESD damage to the new parts due to having a poor space to solder (random fold up table setup in the garage). I already removed all the parts I'm replacing, but haven't found time to put in the new parts.

It sounds like all of your issues are related to the Auto On/Off. I think that's the same problem that DoubleD14 had.

I'm hoping to put in the new parts sometime this week. I'll report back if it worked.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:35 PM   #113
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiari View Post
Replacing caps due to expected aging makes sense. I'm still not 100% convinced that the transistors and MOSFETs are going to go bad unless something else fried them, but since the board is open, it's a low cost change. I'm planning to replace almost all the same components myself. For me, I'm worried about ESD damage to the new parts due to having a poor space to solder (random fold up table setup in the garage). I already removed all the parts I'm replacing, but haven't found time to put in the new parts.

It sounds like all of your issues are related to the Auto On/Off. I think that's the same problem that DoubleD14 had.

I'm hoping to put in the new parts sometime this week. I'll report back if it worked.
You are probably correct about the transistors and MOSFETS. I guess I could always pop the amp back out if I want to change them later... just thinking of buying them while I have an order/shipping.

I looked back at some of the posts around DoubleD14, and I think you are right about the Auto On/Off caps. Someone soon after DoubleD14 ended up replacing 7 or 8 caps and it fixed similar issues. I might shrink my list to those caps first, and stick with the original transistors/MOSFETS.

After all of that I plan to add active cooling inside the amp space. I've checked the available space and it looks like I can add a 12vdc supply (tab off 110vac), a quiet 50mm fan, and external temperature probe/monitor to kick the fan on/off. The thought is to mount the temperature probe CCA/case on the back of the sub with the 12vdc coming out and temperature probe going into the vicinity of the 5W resistors. Looks like about $27 for active cooling.
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Old 05-09-2018, 07:02 AM   #114
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr_ece View Post
You are probably correct about the transistors and MOSFETS. I guess I could always pop the amp back out if I want to change them later... just thinking of buying them while I have an order/shipping.

I looked back at some of the posts around DoubleD14, and I think you are right about the Auto On/Off caps. Someone soon after DoubleD14 ended up replacing 7 or 8 caps and it fixed similar issues. I might shrink my list to those caps first, and stick with the original transistors/MOSFETS.

After all of that I plan to add active cooling inside the amp space. I've checked the available space and it looks like I can add a 12vdc supply (tab off 110vac), a quiet 50mm fan, and external temperature probe/monitor to kick the fan on/off. The thought is to mount the temperature probe CCA/case on the back of the sub with the 12vdc coming out and temperature probe going into the vicinity of the 5W resistors. Looks like about $27 for active cooling.
For the price, I think you're only spending another $10 or so for the Transistors + MOSFETs + extra Caps. Might as well lump them in. For me, that was the cost of shipping, so cheap insurance if I have to buy again.

I'd be cautious of putting a 110AC to 12VDC converter in there. I believe you're looking at getting one of the small switching power supplies. They can couple in noise depending on placement and the box is pretty small. Probably more of a concern is if you have to run the 110AC 60Hz around the board to where you mount the 12VDC converter. With the high power, there's definitely a higher chance of coupling in noise you don't want. Someone else may know better, I'm just pointing it out.

My plan to avoid that is to mount a 50mm 5VDC external fan. I am going to cut out a spot (below the RCA inputs) and mount a fan on the outside of the case (but within the indented portion of the plastic). I have spare USB cables from a bad keyboard and a few low power USB wall chargers. I am already planning to use 3/8 standoffs all around and with the fan blowing air in, it should be pretty efficient. My TV and receiver turn on all other devices, so I'm not worried about leaving the sub and usb fan on.
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:15 AM   #115
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

The noise could be a problem. I'll have to watch for that. Thanks for mentioning it.

Are you swapping out the non-polarized caps (6.8uF, 4.7uF, 200uF x 2) as well? The only source I'm finding for the 6.8uF is a Parts-Express branded cap. Amazon sells it for about $6. The price appears to have shipping baked in (compared to direct from Parts-Express).

I'm planning to order everything except the 6.8uF NP cap (only finding 50V cap and not a 100V cap) from mouser.com since there shipping tends to be a bit lower for me.

Did you go with the original transistors and MOSFETS or to the new part numbers we discussed above?
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:33 AM   #116
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by budm View Post
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=020-1429

This one does not fit?
there are two caps, one is 4.7 and another one is 6.8
Found this posted by budm (2012). The link still works but it appears to be polarized instead of non-polarized unless the product changed. A few posts earlier budm mentioned replacing the 6.8uF NP with a 6.8uF film cap from Parts-Express.

Mouser.com has a 10uF 100V NP cap, but it doesn't appear anyone here came to the conclusion that a 10uF was a suitable replacement for the 6.8uF or not.

Any thoughts on a 6.8uF 100V NP replacement?
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:19 AM   #117
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Looks like I can get a 6.8uF 100V film radial (versus axial) capacitor if the leads will match up. Seems like it should work.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...DeWz7%252bw%3d
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Old 05-11-2018, 07:56 AM   #118
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

I ordered 2 film capacitors to replace the non-polarized. You'll notice I ordered a 10% film vs the 5% film you linked. A quick web search and it looks like the original part was 10%. I doubt it makes a difference. I'm pretty sure I just decided to save the 28 cents. It was cheaper to go film than to order NPE's off another site due to shipping costs.

I didn't notice any 200uF NPE capacitors in the BOM. Maybe you are referring to the polarized 220uF or 22uF?

I would change like for like whenever possible. The only reason I changed anything was due to product availability.

I actually ordered from Mouser (part numbers below use Mouser #'s). I'm assuming from previous posts you can tell where everything should go on the board. Here's my order (quantity in parenthesis) [Description; board references]:


(2) 942-IRF640NPBF [MOSFET; Q18, Q22]
(1) 610-CEN-U07 [BJT NPN; Q2]
(1) 610-CEN-U57 [BJT PNP; Q3]
(1) 863-TIP31CG [BJT Bipolar, Q4]
(2) 647-UVY2A332MRD [100V 3300uF; C6,C8]
(1) 647-ULD1H4R7MDD1TD [50V 4.7uF; C2]
(2) 647-USV1E220MFD1TE [25V 22uF; C4, C9]
(1) 647-UVZ1C331MPD1TD [16V 330uF; C12]
(1) 647-UVY1C221MED1TD [16V 220uF; C37]
(1) 647-UPW1E100MDD1TD [25V 10uF; C35]
(1) 667-ECQ-E1475KF [film capacitor 100VDC 4.7uF; C73]
(1) 667-ECQ-E1685KF [film capacitor 100VDC 6.8uF; C72]
(10) 749-9911-312 [.312 standoffs, nylon]

Last edited by jiari; 05-11-2018 at 09:00 AM.. Reason: Clarity and board location references
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:31 AM   #119
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr_ece View Post
Found this posted by budm (2012). The link still works but it appears to be polarized instead of non-polarized unless the product changed. A few posts earlier budm mentioned replacing the 6.8uF NP with a 6.8uF film cap from Parts-Express.

Mouser.com has a 10uF 100V NP cap, but it doesn't appear anyone here came to the conclusion that a 10uF was a suitable replacement for the 6.8uF or not.

Any thoughts on a 6.8uF 100V NP replacement?
If you want to spend the money, here are the proper parts from parts-express:

https://www.parts-express.com/68uf-1...citor--027-336
https://www.parts-express.com/47uf-1...citor--027-332
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:35 PM   #120
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Default Re: Infinity PS-12 Powered Subwoofer Fired Amplifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiari View Post
I ordered 2 film capacitors to replace the non-polarized. You'll notice I ordered a 10% film vs the 5% film you linked. A quick web search and it looks like the original part was 10%. I doubt it makes a difference. I'm pretty sure I just decided to save the 28 cents. It was cheaper to go film than to order NPE's off another site due to shipping costs.

I didn't notice any 200uF NPE capacitors in the BOM. Maybe you are referring to the polarized 220uF or 22uF?
Thanks for the parts list! Very helpful.

My PS-12 has 200uF/5V NP cap at C17 and C18.

The PS-12 service manual BOM has the following:
033-200645-300 NP Capacitor 200u/50V M (R)1321 P:5 2 C17,18

I didn't find a 200uF NP cap on mouser, but did find a 220uF NP.
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