Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #21
    Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

    Originally posted by MegaOne302
    I still don't know how heat would affect the voltage readings.
    I might not understand your question. If not then please re-state.
    Temp at caps won't affect volts at caps because the voltage is created elsewhere and applied to the caps.
    Examples:
    The 16v caps basically get 12v straight from PSU and it regulates.
    All those 1.34v caps get it from the VRM MOSFETS which are voltage regulators and will compensate for voltage changes.
    - However, as temp on the cap goes up the current through the cap will go up as in most materials electrons flow more freely [less resistance] at higher temps. How much would depend on the specific materials in the given cap and their condition. But with good caps in good condition the current change shouldn't be anything dramatic over the normal temperature range.
    .
    Mann-Made Global Warming.
    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

    -
    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

    - Dr Seuss
    -
    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
    -

    Comment


      #22
      Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

      Hi Toast,

      Can it be possible that Intel put the 6.3v e-caps there because those circuits have a higher ripple then the other seven circuits with the 2.5v sp-caps?

      Thanks,

      Joe
      Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



      Comment


        #23
        Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

        Originally posted by PCBONEZ
        I might not understand your question. If not then please re-state.
        Temp at caps won't affect volts at caps because the voltage is created elsewhere and applied to the caps.
        Examples:
        The 16v caps basically get 12v straight from PSU and it regulates.
        All those 1.34v caps get it from the VRM MOSFETS which are voltage regulators and will compensate for voltage changes.
        - However, as temp on the cap goes up the current through the cap will go up as in most materials electrons flow more freely [less resistance] at higher temps. How much would depend on the specific materials in the given cap and their condition. But with good caps in good condition the current change shouldn't be anything dramatic over the normal temperature range.
        .
        I understand now why the 16v caps went bad on my D865GBF; I used the PSU that came with an ATX case, it must have been faulty/cheap. The 16v caps are directly filtering the 12v current, so these caps should be paid attention to.

        Many thanks for helping me; you know what you're taking about…

        Joe
        Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



        Comment


          #24
          Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

          The 2.5v SP caps remove much more ripple than the 6.3v MBZ.
          When that board was built SP caps cost 3, 4, maybe even 5 times what the MBZ's did.
          Mann-Made Global Warming.
          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

          -
          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

          - Dr Seuss
          -
          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
          -

          Comment


            #25
            Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

            Hi Toast,

            The board has ten caps in the VRM circuit/s; does this mean that they are individual or do they work as a whole (like one high uf value cap but with a low ESR).

            Also, is there any way to read the spikes in the VRM circuits in real time?
            Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



            Comment


              #26
              Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

              They act as a high capacitance, super low ESR bank.

              Spikes? You mean ripple? An oscilloscope will allow you to see the ripple.

              Toast
              veritas odium parit

              Comment


                #27
                Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                Yes, I meant ripple. Don't have a scope yet.

                And yes, you're right about using 4v caps. =)

                I added up the VRM line (7*680) + (3*820) = 7220/10= 720uf
                So, ten solid caps 8mm 4v 720uf should work right? All solid caps have a low ESR also?
                Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



                Comment


                  #28
                  Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                  Caps in parallel is added up of total uF not multipled. Also having them in parallel allows for low impendance to stay low and high current ripple capablity.

                  The remaining polymers are not giving you problem currently? Then replace the last 3 caps if you wish with 680uF or 820uF polymers.

                  Also try to get high current ripple capacitors (I use 470uF 6.3V or less if using polymer on row of 4 caps besides the northbridge) for the four 100uF 25V (this is only fed with 1.5V for the northbridge.)

                  Cheers, Wizard

                  Comment


                    #29
                    Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                    >> All solid caps have a low ESR also? <<
                    -
                    Most solid caps have ESR <.010 and most higher end electrolytics have ESR between .010 and .020 but there are exceptions. Some high end electrolytics have ESR as low as .007 and low end polymer are coming out now from low end brands [or economy series' in good brands] that have ESR in the .010 to .015 range.
                    - But, even when ESR overlaps that way the polymer will have much higher ratings for ripple current. The ripple current rating is like an amps rating for wire. It tells you how much current [ripple current] it can handle without over heating.
                    .
                    Mann-Made Global Warming.
                    - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                    -
                    Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                    - Dr Seuss
                    -
                    You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                    -

                    Comment


                      #30
                      Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                      You might find that 820uF 2.5v caps are less expensive than 560uF or 680uF.
                      I think the 820uF are much higher production and that lowers the cost.
                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                      -
                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                      - Dr Seuss
                      -
                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                      -

                      Comment


                        #31
                        Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                        Originally posted by Wizard
                        Caps in parallel is added up of total uF not multipled. Also having them in parallel allows for low impendance to stay low and high current ripple capablity.


                        Cheers, Wizard
                        I didn't multiply the values by each other. The caps were multiplied by the number of caps with the same uf rating in the VRM row. There're ten caps in all, seven sp-caps 2.5v 680uf caps and three e-caps 6.3v 820uf.

                        (Volt tests showed only 1.34v across each of the ten caps.)

                        7x sp-caps 2.5v 680uf = 4760uf
                        3x e-caps 6.3v 820uf = 2460uf
                        For as total value in parallel 7220uf.

                        Divided by ten gives 722uf for each.

                        If I replace all ten caps with 4v sp-caps, how low can I go on the uf in the circuit and will lowering an already low ESR have any benefits in an motherboard application?

                        Please forgive me for asking so many questions; thanks for putting up with me guys…
                        Last edited by MegaOne302; 05-12-2009, 10:51 AM.
                        Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



                        Comment


                          #32
                          Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                          The VRM output caps will all be in parallel.
                          I don't have that board to look at but by what you've posted that's probably all the C_C_ designated caps.
                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                          -
                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                          - Dr Seuss
                          -
                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                          -

                          Comment


                            #33
                            Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                            Yes, I think they are too. Will making the VRM line all sp-caps have any benefit?
                            Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



                            Comment


                              #34
                              Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                              >>If I replace all ten caps with 4v sp-caps, how low can I go on the uf in the circuit and will lowering an already low ESR have any benefits in an motherboard application?<<

                              I believe PC answered that question in his reply just above. Going to the 2.5v, which is still way above the 1.3v or so you measured, will allow you to go to 820uF x 10. Sufficient capacitance and very low ESR. Lower ESR in that bank especially will have maximum benefits. That's CPU Vcore voltage and 0 (zero) ripple is the best. You need the capacitance to compensate for instantaneous loading of the CPU. It helps pack a bit more oomph! when you need it most.

                              Toast

                              Solid Polymer caps are much lower ESR than "wet" aluminum electrolytics.
                              Last edited by Toasty; 05-12-2009, 11:29 AM.
                              veritas odium parit

                              Comment


                                #35
                                Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                                Ya, PC did reply with the answer; looks like I just popped a brain cap taking it all in.

                                Thanks PC and thanks Toast for your simple yet on-point explanation.

                                I'm going with 10x 2.5v 820uf sp-caps like you recommended. And I guess the need for a bit “extra capacitance to compensate for instantaneous loading of the CPU” means that the sp-caps smooth ripples quicker then e-caps. If this is so, should I be replace the 4x 16v 2200uf e-caps with sp-caps also but without any extra compensation capacitance.

                                Hope I'm understandable.
                                Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



                                Comment


                                  #36
                                  Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                                  Originally posted by Toasty
                                  Solid Polymer caps are much lower ESR than "wet" aluminum electrolytics.
                                  That's true MOST of the time but have to be careful about saying that because it's not -always- true anymore.

                                  Sanyo OS-Con SEPC 10mm 1500uF 6.3v ESR = .010 (Poly)
                                  Nichicon HZ 10mm[x16mm] 1500uF 6.3v ESR = .010 (Lytic)
                                  -
                                  If I looked hard enough I could find an example where it's completely flipped. I have before out of curiosity, I just don't remember what it was.

                                  Some of our old buddies like Teapo, Capxon, OST, and GSC [GSC -> aka Evercon, aka Sacon] are now making Polymers that are lower grades than SEPC. As more and more low end manufacturers enter the polymer market I expect to see more and more polymers that aren't up to the better lytics ESR specs.
                                  -
                                  That is of course JUST about the ESR and even when the ESR difference is nil between Poly/Lytic the Poly will have a better rating for Ripple.
                                  But - The thing is it's ESR that affects the circuit's operation.
                                  The number for Ripple is pretty much like the watt rating on a resistor.
                                  The ESR is most like the Ohms on a resister.
                                  .
                                  Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                  - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                  -
                                  Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                  - Dr Seuss
                                  -
                                  You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                  -

                                  Comment


                                    #37
                                    Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                                    I see what you're saying; guess we have to look out for the flood of general purpose; maybe even counterfeit sp-caps come to the market as their popularity grows.

                                    What you think of these?

                                    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-3058-ND

                                    or

                                    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=493-3059-ND
                                    Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



                                    Comment


                                      #38
                                      Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                                      If the 12mm height fits then either would be fine.
                                      The 8x12mm are only $1.14 each here in qty 10 to 24.
                                      http://www.mouser.com/Search/Product...252b34SUkwo%3d
                                      [Mouser doesn't stock the 9mm high version.]
                                      Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                      - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                      -
                                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                      - Dr Seuss
                                      -
                                      You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                      -

                                      Comment


                                        #39
                                        Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                                        Wow, what a price difference. The 8x12's have a 300mArms higher ripple then the 8x9's and will just make it over the HSF bracket get cooling also.

                                        Thank you, thank you, thank you…

                                        BTW, why didn't I find them in my Mouser cat, do you have superpowers or something? lol

                                        Does an idiot make a sound if no one’s there to hear them talk?



                                        Comment


                                          #40
                                          Re: Intel D865GLC AA C28906-410 Recap

                                          Mouser splits Electrolytic and Polymer into separate categories and Digikey doesn't.
                                          Lately, usually, Mouser is less $$ for Poly but more for Lytics than Digikey.
                                          Mann-Made Global Warming.
                                          - We should be more concerned about the Intellectual Climate.

                                          -
                                          Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

                                          - Dr Seuss
                                          -
                                          You can teach a man to fish and feed him for life, but if he can't handle sushi you must also teach him to cook.
                                          -

                                          Comment

                                          Working...
                                          X