Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Need help to "convert" a washing machine

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Need help to "convert" a washing machine

    Hi guys, I need a bit of help to resolve an issue with a washer.
    A friend likes bringing all his equipment from the US (Argentina based). He has a Whirlpool washer (model WFW97HEXL0) that has about 7-8 years of daily use so it is about to die in the near future.
    So he brought a new one (model WFW92HEFU0). He plugged it in to his big 220-110V transformer (same used for the other washer), and it was dead. No buttons on the from panel responded at all.
    He reported it DOA, then arranged to have a new one shipped out, this time he received model WFW92HEFC0, to find out it was also dead!!
    All it does is turn the drum lights on when opening the door. But the buttons do not respond at all, just like the other washer. Nothing lights on the control panel. We double checked that there are no loose connections to the front panel or anywhere, so this must be something else...
    Washer's label states 12A, 120V, 60Hz.
    We have 50Hz here, could it be some sort of protection on the new models that prevent them to turn on when on 50Hz? The old model always worked on 50Hz... and still does, but it makes a lot of noise...
    Any help will be more than appreciated!!
    Attached pictures of the mainboard.

    Attached Files

    #2
    Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

    That could be the problem, It could be that the board looks at the a/c line frequency to calculate wash times etc.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

      Originally posted by PinGuy View Post
      Hi guys, I need a bit of help to resolve an issue with a washer.
      A friend likes bringing all his equipment from the US (Argentina based). He has a Whirlpool washer (model WFW97HEXL0) that has about 7-8 years of daily use so it is about to die in the near future.
      So he brought a new one (model WFW92HEFU0). He plugged it in to his big 220-110V transformer (same used for the other washer), and it was dead. No buttons on the from panel responded at all.
      He reported it DOA, then arranged to have a new one shipped out, this time he received model WFW92HEFC0, to find out it was also dead!!
      All it does is turn the drum lights on when opening the door. But the buttons do not respond at all, just like the other washer. Nothing lights on the control panel. We double checked that there are no loose connections to the front panel or anywhere, so this must be something else...
      Washer's label states 12A, 120V, 60Hz.
      We have 50Hz here, could it be some sort of protection on the new models that prevent them to turn on when on 50Hz? The old model always worked on 50Hz... and still does, but it makes a lot of noise...
      Any help will be more than appreciated!!
      Attached pictures of the mainboard.

      50 hz can be a problem, mostly with CRTs. Argentina, unlike Mexico and Colombia, is 50 hz, I heard.

      And I heard that even Brasil is 60 hz, but a franken-mix, reportedly some spots at 50 hz spec and others at 60 hz spec! (much like Japan, I heard! Where western Japan is 60 hz spec and eastern Japan is 50 hz spec!)

      I heard that ROC and ROK are 60 hz spec as well.
      Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 01-21-2019, 07:10 PM.
      ASRock B550 PG Velocita

      Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

      16 GB AData XPG Spectrix D41

      Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6750 XT

      eVGA Supernova G3 750W

      Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

      Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




      "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

      "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

      "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

      "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

        Originally posted by R_J View Post
        That could be the problem, It could be that the board looks at the a/c line frequency to calculate wash times etc.
        So is it right to guess that one of the inputs in the µC will show a 50Hz signal? And if I lift the pin and inject 60Hz pulses with an arduino it would power up? Or this is just a hopeful fantasy of mine?

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

          Originally posted by PinGuy View Post
          All it does is turn the drum lights on when opening the door. But the buttons do not respond at all, just like the other washer. Nothing lights on the control panel.
          Does it throw any error codes?

          We have 50Hz here, could it be some sort of protection on the new models that prevent them to turn on when on 50Hz? The old model always worked on 50Hz... and still does, but it makes a lot of noise...
          Any help will be more than appreciated!!
          Attached pictures of the mainboard.

          Awful big heatsink for a "conventional" washer! Wanna bet it's got a VFD?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

            you could test it with a generator if you have one . 3kva should just about run a washing machine . 5kva would be better though .

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

              a 20% difference in frequency may mess timing up - but unlikely as they usually use a switching psu running an atmel microcontroller with internal rtc,
              but it shouldnt stop the machine starting up!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                Originally posted by stj View Post
                a 20% difference in frequency may mess timing up
                but it shouldnt stop the machine starting up!
                I was thinking the same thing, unlike a CRT of course! With a CRT, I would expect the timing to get messed up!

                Unless it's a "anti regional feature" designed to intentionally lock out people in 50 hz regions, such as Europe, central Asia and PRC, of course.

                Smells like a firmware lockout.

                Most likely when it gets below 55 hz or the like...
                Last edited by RJARRRPCGP; 01-22-2019, 10:04 AM.
                ASRock B550 PG Velocita

                Ryzen 9 "Vermeer" 5900X

                16 GB AData XPG Spectrix D41

                Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6750 XT

                eVGA Supernova G3 750W

                Western Digital Black SN850 1TB NVMe SSD

                Alienware AW3423DWF OLED




                "¡Me encanta "Me Encanta o Enlistarlo con Hilary Farr!" -Mí mismo

                "There's nothing more unattractive than a chick smoking a cigarette" -Topcat

                "Today's lesson in pissivity comes in the form of a ziplock baggie full of GPU extension brackets & hardware that for the last ~3 years have been on my bench, always in my way, getting moved around constantly....and yesterday I found myself in need of them....and the bastards are now nowhere to be found! Motherfracker!!" -Topcat

                "did I see a chair fly? I think I did! Time for popcorn!" -ratdude747

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                  Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                  Does it throw any error codes?
                  Nothing, it is totally dead except for the drum LED turning on when opening the door.

                  Originally posted by petehall347 View Post
                  you could test it with a generator if you have one . 3kva should just about run a washing machine . 5kva would be better though .
                  That would be great, but unfortunately I don't have access to a 110V 5KVA generator here.

                  Originally posted by stj View Post
                  a 20% difference in frequency may mess timing up - but unlikely as they usually use a switching psu running an atmel microcontroller with internal rtc, but it shouldnt stop the machine starting up!
                  That's what I thought as well, and that's why I believe they added a check. The previous washer worked perfectly with 50Hz during its lifetime. I find it too drastic to show as dead due to a change in frequency. But unpacking two new washers from the box to find them DOA is very strange as well.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                    Originally posted by RJARRRPCGP View Post
                    Unless it's a "anti regional feature" designed to intentionally lock out people in 50 hz regions, such as Europe, central Asia and PRC, of course.

                    Smells like a firmware lockout.

                    Most likely when it gets below 55 hz or the like...
                    EXACTLY!!!! Looks like a firmware lockout. The thing is how to circumvent that. I will try and check with the scope if I find 50Hz arriving at the µC...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                      what's the crystal frequency on the microcontroller??
                      if they are fucking around, it may be configured by a jumper - but your pics are too low-res to zoom into.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                        ...I don't even know which µC is, the whole board seems to have been bathed in epoxy, and the component codes can not be read
                        I also wonder if Whirlpool enables code protection or not on their micros...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                          Originally posted by PinGuy View Post
                          Nothing, it is totally dead except for the drum LED turning on when opening the door.

                          That would be great, but unfortunately I don't have access to a 110V 5KVA generator here.
                          You don't need a 5KVA genset -- as long as you don't engage the drum motor/water pump! Instead, you need just enough power to convince the electronic that it is attached to 60Hz mains; THEN see if there are any different reactions from the display/controls.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                            Originally posted by stj View Post
                            what's the crystal frequency on the microcontroller??
                            if they are fucking around, it may be configured by a jumper - but your pics are too low-res to zoom into.
                            I'm uploading some more pics, all I have for now, sorry for the shitty res, will try to make better.

                            Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                            You don't need a 5KVA genset -- as long as you don't engage the drum motor/water pump! Instead, you need just enough power to convince the electronic that it is attached to 60Hz mains; THEN see if there are any different reactions from the display/controls.
                            Yes, it's just that 110V generators are not a common thing here, all 220V

















                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by PinGuy; 01-22-2019, 11:30 AM.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                              Why don't you contact whirlpool and ask them? It never hurts to send an email and ask. Maybe they would be willing to exchange the board
                              If you have a generator that you can change the frequency, connect it to the transformer, then to the washer, Then see if it will at least give a display
                              Last edited by R_J; 01-22-2019, 12:05 PM.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                                use 220v generator with transformer .

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                                  Thanks guys, will check in the coming days and report back

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                                    pictures are terrible - what the hell did you use??

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                                      Originally posted by PinGuy View Post
                                      Yes, it's just that 110V generators are not a common thing here, all 220V
                                      Use "his big 220-110V transformer". With no motor load, there's no practical difference between running 50Hz through that vs. 60Hz.

                                      I suspect there's a VFD in there and they exploited knowledge of the line frequency in its design to cut down on filter caps. The software that does the riming (of the VFD switches) might not know how to handle a shorter mains "period".

                                      [You don't know what assumptions were made in the design so you can only start by trying to mimic the INTENDED application environment, then incrementally see what works/doesn't work.]

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Re: Need help to "convert" a washing machine

                                        Originally posted by PinGuy View Post
                                        All it does is turn the drum lights on when opening the door. But the buttons do not respond at all, just like the other washer. Nothing lights on the control panel. We double checked that there are no loose connections to the front panel or anywhere, so this must be something else...
                                        Is this a direct-drive (DD) washer? If yes, what happens if you turn the drum very quickly by hand? Try it both with the washer plugged into the wall and unplugged. Rotating the drum by hand very fast should/may generate enough back EMF to turn on the control panel electronics - at least this seems to work on our LG washer model WM2050CW (from 2009).

                                        Originally posted by Curious.George View Post
                                        I suspect there's a VFD in there and they exploited knowledge of the line frequency in its design to cut down on filter caps. The software that does the riming (of the VFD switches) might not know how to handle a shorter mains "period".
                                        Looks like the most reasonable explanation to me as well.

                                        Originally posted by PinGuy View Post
                                        The old model always worked on 50Hz... and still does, but it makes a lot of noise...
                                        Noise from when the drum is turning? If so, that's just a ball bearing replacement job, which requires taking apart pretty much the whole washer. Not too hard to do (I did it myself, and I am no mechanic and not very physically strong), but will take an hour or two, at least.
                                        ... And yes, I realize you're asking about the new washer and not about fixing the old one. But just thought I'd mention that anyways. Might be just easier to fix the old one in the end.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X