Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Thanks, Momaka.

No, no, no gaming, not a chance until I solve this power issue. Although the PC was bought as brand new back in 2015 and capable of easily running most modern titles of the time, I actually never pushed it. The most demaning applications were emulators and recently the neweset editions of Mortal Kombat and Killer Instinct games, and some work stuff. But I surelly did not run those demanding ones for hours.
Actually, my PC spends more time powered down than running.

I asked about the PSU swap because when I used several online power calculators, they showed that for my setup I needed ~484W of power.
So you think that the SS-400ET PSU should be capable of at least providing the PC with the initial signs of life, i.e. instant power on, and BIOS setup? Those would be enough to see if PSU is the problem (as to avoid loading Windows)?
Because, once powerd on, the current SS-660KM powers the PC without a hitch (it's the startup it fails at).

No, my GTX 970 is the version with stock speed (no OC, SOC or alike) as I do not like overclocking any component. My CPU is I7 4790 (non-K version, so no overclocking of any onboard components is possible). The whole system works at stock speed, actually.

[momaka]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

I asked about the PSU swap because when I used several online power calculators, they showed that for my setup I needed ~484W of power.

Most online calculators grossly over-esitmate the power you will "need". Very few will actually give you an accurate minimum estimate. Most actually give a "recommended" power rating. That recommended rating often has to do with the fact that PSUs perform most efficiently when ran between 40-60% of their full rated load. So for a system that draws 300W, a 500-600W PSU will be "recommended" by many of these calculators.

But if your PSU has good cooling design and you run your PC idle most of the time, then it doesn't really make sense to follow those recommendations, as PSUs tend to loose efficiency below 20% of their total rated load.

That said, this is probably why the fan on your SS-660KM probably rarely (if ever) kicked in - your PC wasn't really loading the PSU that much.

My CPU is I7 4790 (non-K version, so no overclocking of any onboard components is possible).

Even better. That CPU is rated for 84W TDP - a whooping 40W less than my assumed 125W rating.

So you think that the SS-400ET PSU should be capable of at least providing the PC with the initial signs of life, i.e. instant power on, and BIOS setup? Those would be enough to see if PSU is the problem (as to avoid loading Windows)?

Yes, should be fine indeed. But do double-check the capacity on your 12V rail. If it's 300 Watts or more (that is, more than 25A combined for the two rails), you should be okay. You can load Windows too, it's not going to make a big difference. If anything, it would be better, as your GPU will use less power once its drivers load and it enters a reduced power state in Windows.

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

If it's 300 Watts or more (that is, more than 25A combined for the two rails), you should be okay. You can load Windows too, it's not going to make a big difference. If anything, it would be better, as your GPU will use less power once its drivers load and it enters a reduced power state in Windows.

Thanks. Yes, it has two +12V rails, each rated at 17A. But bellow them is a total power labeled at 360W. That PSU is operational and has Hitachi and OST caps inside. I will swap it tomorrow and check the behaviour.

This evening, however, while reading about low power states that all of you mentioned, I installed an earlier version of 3DMark and ran several tests. These would have awaken the GPU and its fan could be heard. Subsequently, I also heard the 660KM's fan kicking in and I could actually feel the air being pushed through its back grill. I ran the tests for about 10 minutes, and the PC ran stable all the time. I even pushed the "extreme" version of one of the benchmarks just to give it an extra push. While the GPU's air was very hot, almost like a heater blowing the air out from the PC case, SeaSonic exhausted air that was almost at room temperature, not even warm.

Another test: I entered BIOS and disabled ErP, and set the mouse and keyboard actions to turn the PC on, saved the changes, and turned the PC off. I left the PC off for about an hour for it to cool down. Afterwards, strangely, the mouse and keyboard actions turned it on instantly, whereas pressing the Power button had the delay again. Stumped.

Of course, I will not do these tests with the weaker 400W PSU. But if the PC powers on fine with it in 5VSB enabled (no ErP) mode, maybe this 660KM PSU really does have some strange standby issue. I will check tomorrow during daylight as removing and disconnecting the computer case is a bit of a "remove that, position this item" case due to dense space.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Have you found some capacitors?
What are the results??

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Guys, i think there is definitively something wrong with the standby power becuase this morning I was unable to start the PC with this PSU even with ErP enabled. As soon as I flipped the back switch to position "0", the PSU came to life, only to shutdow again (probably because it discharged and the LEDs on the case remained lit for a secon or two more). Upon switching it back to "I" position, the PC started immediatley and worked fine.

I still did not have spare time to switch to the SS-400ET PSU and see the results. But since this 660KM now behaves the same way regardless of the ErP mode, I gess the BIOS option was some sort of a fluke.

The only available unused caps that I have are Rubycons 16V470uF YXG, then 6.3V100uF, 16V1500uF and 6.3V3300uF all MBZ series. And I have the YK series that I got for my headphones, but they are rated at 85° and are probably not good for the PSU. Governed by Murphy's law, the PSU will probably have caps that I don't have at my disposal.
I will have to re-open the PSU as soon as I grab some time, probably this weekend.

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Update, guys. The SS-400ET will be of no use because it only has one 6-pin PCI-e plug, whereas my GTX 970 requires two of them. Other connectors are accounted for. So I won't be able to test anything with it as I can't connect all the components.

However, out of curiosity, I opened my SS-660KM again. All the Rubycon caps circled in one of the previous pictures are 50V47uF YXG. One NCC near the transformer is 16V220uF KY. Other small caps near the modular output PCB are all Rubycon YXG rated at 50V, one is 10uF, one is 22uF. The four big brown ones are all NCC: two 16V220uF KZE, one 6.3V3300uF KY and one 16V3900uF KZH.

If necessary, I'll mark them on one of the pictures.

No signs of bloating. Can they be silently failing?

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

No signs of bloating. Can they be silently failing?

Of course they can!
They can loose capacity, the ESR can rise and others like increased leakage.

Bloated caps are a sign of a catastrophic failure however...

So the only way to see if the caps are OK or not is to desolder them (wich damages them a bit) and measure with an ESR meter or something like that.

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Ok. Which one would be the most likely candidates for recapping? I mean, the ones tasked with the 5vsb.

I do not have a multimeter, but I guess I could take the caps out and bring them to a local PC service shop, maybe the guys working there will be kind enough to test them for me.

[stj]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

just replace anything under 470uf

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Stj, those would be the electrolitic ones only, right? Others are solids I think, 16V330uF. I have no intention of touching those.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Stj, those would be the electrolitic ones only, right? Others are solids I think, 16V330uF. I have no intention of touching those.

Yes, I'm pretty sure he means the electrolytics, not the Polymers...

[stj]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

yes, electrolytics - the smaller they are, the shorter the lifespan.

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

yes, electrolytics - the smaller they are, the shorter the lifespan.

OK. This is the list of all the small caps in the PSU:

1 x NCC 16V220uF KY
1 x Rubycon 50V10uF YXG
1 x Rubycon 50V22uF YXG
6 x Rubycon 50V47uF YXG

Do you suggest any specific and maybe more durable caps for the replacement, or should I look into the same make and model?

This is thus far the only PSU that failed on me with the necessity to replace capacitors, especially since the ones installed are deemed the high quality ones.

[Stefan Payne]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Hm, maybe Panasonic FR?
Though they seem to be much much better than the original Rubycons...

[stj]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

i just use FR for just about everything.

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Unfortunetely, the eBay seller I got the Rubycons from does not have anything from that FR series, and has only a dozen of Panasonic capacitors. Ordering them online with all the shipping charges might cost me half the price of a new PSU.
Does any of you know a Eurpean based online store, or similar suggestion?

[stj]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

check farnell and RS

[momaka]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

Update, guys. The SS-400ET will be of no use because it only has one 6-pin PCI-e plug, whereas my GTX 970 requires two of them. Other connectors are accounted for. So I won't be able to test anything with it as I can't connect all the components.

That's all that is stopping you?

Just get a 4-pin Molex to PCI-E 6-pin converter / adapter.

Or if you are ballsy, 16-14 AWG and shove it in the right connector.
Ghetto but it will work for a test just fine.

Hm, maybe Panasonic FR?
Though they seem to be much much better than the original Rubycons...

It doesn't matter for the small caps.

Anything under 220 uF, I don't even bother to open the datasheet.

Does any of you know a Eurpean based online store, or similar suggestion?

Try contacting member Behemot:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/member.php?u=15285

[UserXP]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

@momaka:
OK. Just as a side note, since we are testing the standby power, how accurate the test would be by switching to integrated graphics (in that case, the missing connector wouldn't be a problem) and then using the SS-400ET PSU?

Thank you, I'll check those two stores. :-)

[momaka]

Re: Is Seasonic SS-660KM PSU ErP Ready

It would be better if you could test the PC with the GTX 970, as that way nothing else changes other that the PSU. But if you don't have that option and can't get a Molex-to-PCIE 6-pin adapter, then you could try the onboard graphics. Should be fine.