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Old 06-03-2023, 05:24 PM   #1
sam_sam_sam
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Default High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turns of

I have had these 70 watt high pressure sodium yard lights for many years now probably at least 15 years or more and there is a protection diode that after several years starts to go bad and when it does this it has momentarily shutting down the light and then a few minutes later it starts working again

This about the forth time I have fixed this one and you can tell if it the diode or not if it lights up and it only shuts down when the air conditioner turns on then it is the diode

If it cycling on and off constantly then it is the bulb itself that is the issue

( transformer failure )

This is probably the last time I am going to be able to fix this one because sometimes when it starts up the transformer is vibrating a little bit and this is a sign that it having issues because the other one that I have that is what it started doing after I had replaced the diode the last time so I know I am on borrowed time with this one so it time to look for another one to replace it


Actually I have some spare parts for them I might just replace the transformer with a old one that still works

The part number is “K1200E70” Thyristor Surge Device 90 volts @ 20 amp 2-pin TO
( when I buy them I buy 10 at a time ) I still have 8 of them left I paid $9.00 plus $3.00 shipping 1-6-20

I think that they were about to discontinue this part number when I bought the last set of them

There is also a 220 volt version of this device as well I had bought some by mistake so I have both versions of it and if you are wondering if this version would work for 120 volts it will not become I tried it

It is a long story about how I figured out when this diode is being to fail this was the very first time that it happened I took the starting board out and looked at it there is not much to it there is a small capacitor a choke and the diode and three wires one goes to the transformer the other goes to neutral side and the other one goes to lamp

So when I saw this two pin device I googled the part number to find out what it was and what it is used for so I bought some and replaced it and started working like it was new for several years and slowly started turning off sometimes when the air conditioner would turn on every so often this would at the beginning as time goes on it started doing more often then it would basically do this each and every time the air conditioner would turn and if you do not replace it then it would start doing it when the air conditioner turns on and when it turns off as well and act like the bulb was going bad but this is not the case ( because I had let it get to the point that I thought it was the bulb that was causing the issue but after I put a new bulb in it was doing the same exact thing with the new bulb ) this was the first time when I googled the part number
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Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 06-03-2023 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 06-03-2023, 07:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

sounds like the problem is your AC or wiring,
obviously there is a volt-drop/brown-out when your AC turns on and it's causing the lamp to restart.
fix the volt-drop
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Old 06-04-2023, 06:02 AM   #3
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

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sounds like the problem is your AC or wiring,
obviously there is a volt-drop/brown-out when your AC turns on and it's causing the lamp to restart.
fix the volt-drop
I would agree with you however I have two of them on the same circuit branch and only one of them does this the other one does not do this but I am being to think that it might be that the bulb is being to fail because it starts lighting up the bulb better with the new diode but there is also a capacitor on this board and I going to have tested this capacitor and see if it is working correctly or not
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Old 06-04-2023, 10:07 AM   #4
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

there is that, but also check the power connections at both ends for loose or corroded terminals
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Old 06-04-2023, 11:25 AM   #5
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

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there is that, but also check the power connections at both ends for loose or corroded terminals

Will be doing this soon I going to take it down and recheck connections and the like and post the results once I figure out exactly what is the underlying problem with this particular yard light
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Old 06-04-2023, 02:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

I thought it might not be the lamp at all. The air conditioner voltage sag might be restarting it. The sag gets worse with old wiring and breakers, A/C start cap and compressor aging, the daisy-chain or wiring. I wonder if you could look at MIN/MAX voltage with a multimeter and see how much mains sags when the compressor starts? Or if these are all on one phase, is this 120V or 220V lamp and A/C?

K1200 is a Sidactor or Diac as I call them, triggers at 110-125V, 120V nominal. It is moreso a trigger diode to start the lamp, not a protection diode.

How it works is, when the voltage across it is high enough say >120Vpk, the Sidac avalanches and dumps the start cap into an inductor (or a 2-turn tap on the main ballast inductor) to make the 3-4kV spike it takes to start a HPS lamp.
Once the lamp is running, there ends up being insufficient voltage on the start cap (due to voltage drop in the ballast inductor) to avalanche the Sidac, and it just sits there off.
They are not the strongest part, I would guess they can age and their firing voltage goes wonky but it might also be the lamp voltage (impedance) going high with age, or the start cap maybe.
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File Type: png Sidac_sodium lamp starter.PNG (24.6 KB, 12 views)
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Old 06-04-2023, 03:49 PM   #7
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwire View Post
K1200 is a Sidactor or Diac as I call them, triggers at 110-125V, 120V nominal. It is moreso a trigger diode to start the lamp

How it works is, when the voltage across it is high enough say >120Vpk, the Sidac avalanches and dumps the start cap into an inductor (or a 2-turn tap on the main ballast inductor) to make the 3-4kV spike it takes to start a HPS lamp.
Once the lamp is running, there ends up being insufficient voltage on the start cap (due to voltage drop in the ballast inductor) to avalanche the Sidac, and it just sits there off.
They are not the strongest part, I would guess they can age and their firing voltage goes wonky but it might also be the lamp voltage (impedance) going high with age, or the start cap maybe.
Thank you for the explanation of how this device works that helps a lot for troubleshooting issues with this particular yard light

I was thinking about the start cap might be some of the issues I have to install a different yard from what is there currently and I can dig deeper into what might be the issue because the other high pressure sodium yard light does not have this issue

Also how would I look up the part number for the start cap on this starter board

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 06-04-2023 at 03:54 PM..
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Old 06-04-2023, 03:59 PM   #8
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

why not swap parts between the fittings to see which has an effect?
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Old 06-04-2023, 05:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

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why not swap parts between the fittings to see which has an effect?
I would do this recommendation however keep in mind that the spare parts are also very old as well this is the reason I asked about how you find the start up capacitor

If I remember correctly the starting board that is in there now is a used part because the one that was in there had some kind-a issue and burned up the board traces in one section that it was not easily repaired and sense I had a spare one I just repaired it and I was using for last couple of years now

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Old 06-04-2023, 10:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

If the start cap fails low value, I think it will just struggle or fail to start.
Most are like motor caps: film caps but I do see some oil-filled ones out there. But these ballasts run hot and might be hard on them.

I read "High pressure sodium lamps require approximately one minute to cool before restriking." I doubt it gets this with the A/C causing false restarts?
If the ballast is failing, it gives the tube excessive current so short life and blackened ends I think.
https://hid.venturelighting.com/Tech...eshooting.html

Newer ballasts seem to use an ignitor module: https://hid.venturelighting.com/VLPS...S/V90J1232.pdf but no idea what's inside, they are potted.
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Old 06-05-2023, 04:11 AM   #11
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwire View Post
If the start cap fails low value, I think it will just struggle or fail to start.
Most are like motor caps: film caps but I do see some oil-filled ones out there. But these ballasts run hot and might be hard on them.

I read "High pressure sodium lamps require approximately one minute to cool before restriking." I doubt it gets this with the A/C causing false restarts?
If the ballast is failing, it gives the tube excessive current so short life and blackened ends I think.
https://hid.venturelighting.com/Tech...eshooting.html

Newer ballasts seem to use an ignitor module: https://hid.venturelighting.com/VLPS...S/V90J1232.pdf but no idea what's inside, they are potted.
I will post a picture of the inside of the starting board when I take it down from where it is now
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Old 07-14-2023, 06:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwire View Post
How it works is, when the voltage across it is high enough say >120Vpk, the Sidac avalanches and dumps the start cap into an inductor (or a 2-turn tap on the main ballast inductor) to make the 3-4kV spike it takes to start a HPS lamp.
Once the lamp is running, there ends up being insufficient voltage on the start cap (due to voltage drop in the ballast inductor) to avalanche the Sidac, and it just sits there off.
They are not the strongest part, I would guess they can age and their firing voltage goes wonky but it might also be the lamp voltage (impedance) going high with age, or the start cap maybe.
I would like to know what is the best way to check the start cap for this high pressure sodium lighting fixture ( ESR meter or UF meter or something else )

The issue is that there two of these light fixtures on the same electrical circuit on the same phase one works the way it should and it is the new one out of the two ( I also have a third one that does the same exact thing but it does even more so and not being used as of now )

I really would like to fix both of them that have this problem issue so any help would be greatly appreciated plus I think this might improve my understanding and troubleshooting skills

I have switched around the high pressure sodium light bulbs and in the newer one it works normally but the one that the issue still has the issue so I do not think it is the light bulb

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Old 07-15-2023, 06:12 AM   #13
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

testing big can-caps for motors or lights can be tricky,
some have a built-in or soldered on discharge resistor
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Old 07-15-2023, 07:11 AM   #14
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

https://www.ebay.com/itm/256137223968

Here is the replacement that has the ballast transform and igniter

Last edited by sam_sam_sam; 07-15-2023 at 07:14 AM..
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Old 07-15-2023, 10:30 AM   #15
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

This will allow me to get this yard light working correctly again and be able to figure out what is exactly what wrong with the lighting fixture and repair hopefully anyway
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Old 07-16-2023, 01:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

Here is a pictures of the ignitor board and capacitor that are on this board

I have never looked up these type of capacitors can you please tell how I would find them on Digit-key so I can order some of them and see if this helps it works correctly again

This is a newer looking board that I got from the place that I used to work at before they closed and a few of these light fixtures were doing the same thing every so often cycling when something would turn on in the building and it was also doing this at my house as well

Remember that these light fixtures are probably about 15 years old by now
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File Type: jpeg IMG_0447.jpeg (313.7 KB, 26 views)

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Old 07-16-2023, 11:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

Have you measured the capacitor and made sure it's bad?
If so maybe this thread can be useful:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showth...415#post922415
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Old 07-17-2023, 04:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

It measures around 0.31 but I am not sure that it good with a load on it so I would rather just replace them to rule out the possibility that this might be the issue

This link does not work anymore

https://www.codico.com/en/News/long-...from-kemet.htm

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Old 07-22-2023, 04:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

Would this be a good replacement capacitor for this high pressure sodium light fixture that I have been talking about in the post above #16


Digi-Key Part Number
495-76808-ND
Manufacturer
EPCOS - TDK Electronics
Manufacturer Product Number
B32922C3333K000
Description
CAP FILM 0.033UF 10% 630VDC RAD

Series
B3292*C/D - X2 Standard

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/...33K000/3492448

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Old 07-23-2023, 01:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: High Pressure Sodium Yard light when air conditioner turns light momentarily turn

No. It's the wrong value at 0.033uF and your pic and measurements are 0.33uF or 10x bigger. The lead spacing I see 22.5mm for the old part and PC board, or it will accomodate 15mm.

B32922C3334M000
495-2321-ND
CAP FILM 0.33uF 20% 630VDC X2 305VAC LS=15mm.

But I think replacing the cap will change nothing because the lamp starts OK and its value is still in spec.
You have to replace the trigger Sidactor D1. Board says "G080xx" what part number is there.
Digi-Key still has the K1200 in many different packages too.
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