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Old 01-16-2020, 02:01 PM   #21
FrozenHaxor
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Reset procedure was completed successfully but the unit behaves the same, still no audio output. Currently I don't have a HDMI source to test those inputs that way, will look for some.

As for the headphone test, just tried it with stereo analog input and the result is the same - no audio on headphones.
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Old 01-16-2020, 03:16 PM   #22
madan1
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

I'm starting to think the op doesn't really want to fix the unit or lacks the necessary knowledge and skills to do so.
Also I suspect he does not have the service manual, so I'm uploading it for him ( credits go to hifiengine ).
https://anonfile.com/De66s5N7n2/hfe_...ce_full_en_pdf

I'm gonna write this one last time - check the voltage rails on the main PCB!
Before that, go to the service menu and do the tests!
This will show you at least which components are experiencing issues.
Download the service manual, read it carefully, and do the tests. As I said before - there are even test signals which are put through all or individual channels.

Page 97 from the manual - here is the power supply schematic. I counted 20+ ICs on the digital(main) board which you should check if they generate the correct voltages.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

anonafile wants to install virus's before you download anything.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:36 PM   #24
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

eventually, the link does down load a service manual but it certainly is disturbing to have to jump past so much "garbage".
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:45 PM   #25
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Quote:
Originally Posted by budwich View Post
eventually, the link does down load a service manual but it certainly is disturbing to have to jump past so much "garbage".
Sorry guys, I'm using strict adblock and do not see any internet shit.
I tried uploading the manual on the forum, but no luck with the file size limit and thought this free file upload service was fine.
I do not know if I'll be able to remove the link now, and just to stay safe - download the manual from here https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_li...rx-a3010.shtml ( requires free registration ).


p.s. the edit option for the previous post has expired
Here is what I got on the anonfile link when I click on the "download"... I was not aware there was spam, malware or garbage. Again, I'm sorry about that.
And I highly suggest that everyone should have an adblock installed on all devices!
Attached Images
File Type: png screen.png (77.2 KB, 8 views)

Last edited by madan1; 01-16-2020 at 05:57 PM..
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Quote:
Originally Posted by madan1 View Post
I'm starting to think the op doesn't really want to fix the unit
I've never said that I don't want to fix it, I just wanted to get through the easier and possibly obvious stuff first since this AVR is very complex, I wanted to save the digging through schematics for last. Looks like it's the inevitable.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:56 PM   #27
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenHaxor View Post
I've never said that I don't want to fix it, I just wanted to get through the easier and possibly obvious stuff first since this AVR is very complex, I wanted to save the digging through schematics for last. Looks like it's the inevitable.
The easiest thing to do is to go through the service menu tests. That will narrow the possible causes..
pg26 form the SM shows the service menu structure
pg36 explains each option and what results should be expected.
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:58 PM   #28
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Will do tomorrow.

For future reference, safe and fast mirror of the full service manual: http://frozenhaxor.pl/hfe_yamaha_rx-...ce_full_en.pdf
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Old 01-17-2020, 05:48 AM   #29
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Getting somewhere, completed some of the tests from service menu. Unit failed to output any sound using the internal noise generator through the DSP. Then I went to do the test of DSP from page 54. Test section C2-1 BUS DSP2, the result is that it is stuck on the "Checking" indicating "--" while other tests take max few seconds for the result. Looks like this is the issue. All the tests from section C1 completed successfully with no errors.
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Old 01-17-2020, 09:48 AM   #30
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Also S4-1 SYSTEM VERSION is having the same problem, displaying "----" as well as S4-10 DSP2 VERSION displaying "-------" S4-11 DSP2 CHECKSUM showed a value of "8A7BC1FA" after several minutes.

I'm swaying towards IC521 being at fault here. But then could this be a general firmware issue? Kinda sketchy running an update on faulty hardware, could brick the remaining good chips if that DSP2 is messed up.


I've pulled the board with DSP2 chip on it. Maked D81YK113BZKB400. I've had a very very similar if not the same chip fail on a Denon or Onkyo unit where a test was to heat it up and sound was coming back, while reflow would bring it back for slightly more time. Replacement was needed regardless.

I have performed a reflow of that BGA IC. No change in behavior tho. Hmmm....

Last edited by FrozenHaxor; 01-17-2020 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:07 AM   #31
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Is it a Texas Instruments ic ? Post a pic of it, there were revisions that were known to be bad.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:23 AM   #32
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

from the service menu - is there a valid firmware version and checksum for the dsp2 or just random symbols ( option S4-10 s4-11 ) ?
DSP2 seems to be IC 521 which is located on board "DIGITAL2"
From page 20 this "digital2" should be the small pcb board on the top of the main board.. so go with the standard things - remove the board and check the connectors/(flex) cables and other visual damage.
After that, check the power supply of the DSP2 IC - it should be powered by +3.3DSP2 and +1.2DSP2 rails ( page 136 ). So check the rails for voltage and ripples ( mine yamaha unit was experiencing issues due to ripples and failed smd inductors ).
+3.3D and +1.8D come from DIGITAL1 ( (which should be fine if the rest of the components pass the tests ) and are converted by q5001 and IC523 to +3.3DSP2 and +1.2DSP2 so you might have failed IC or capacitor(s).

Once you know that the IC has good power supply you can do the "light bulb"/"heating" bga test - basically heat the IC to check if it fails because of failed solder balls.


p.s. oops, the op has answered while I was writing... anyway, I'll leave this here for future readers.

Last edited by madan1; 01-17-2020 at 10:44 AM..
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:32 AM   #33
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmartell View Post
Is it a Texas Instruments ic ? Post a pic of it, there were revisions that were known to be bad.
Here is the list you have in mind - http://media.digikey.com/PDF/PCNs/Te...114000_Obs.pdf

a family of faulty DTS ( dsp ) ICs

The ops yamaha uses d81yk113bzkb which indeed is affected.
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Old 01-17-2020, 10:51 AM   #34
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Quote:
Originally Posted by madan1 View Post
from the service menu - is there a valid firmware version and checksum for the dsp2 or just random symbols ( option S4-10 s4-11 ) ?
Like I wrote in previous post, no. Version does not show at all, and the checksum comes up after very long time (several minutes, 5-10 or so) then comes up with checksum number of "8A7BC1FA" each time, after power down and board unplug as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by madan1 View Post
so go with the standard things - remove the board and check the connectors/(flex) cables and other visual damage.
After that, check the power supply of the DSP2 IC - it should be powered by +3.3DSP2 and +1.2DSP2 rails ( page 136 ). So check the rails for voltage and ripples ( mine yamaha unit was experiencing issues due to ripples and failed smd inductors ).
+3.3D and +1.8D come from DIGITAL1 ( (which should be fine if the rest of the components pass the tests ) and are converted by q5001 and IC523 to +3.3DSP2 and +1.2DSP2 so you might have failed IC or capacitor(s).

Once you know that the IC has good power supply you can do the "light bulb"/"heating" bga test - basically heat the IC to check if it fails because of failed solder balls.
Board looks to have a firm and stable connector, undamaged. Checked power. Input to board DIGITAL2 has 2 rails, one measuring 1,84V and the other one 3,24V. Both voltages completely stable. Power rails to the DSP2 chip itself measure stable 1,26V and 3,24V.

BGA failure mode is usually the substrate connectors to the flip chip itself inside. Performed a reflow, no change in the way the unit behaves.
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:02 AM   #35
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmartell View Post
Is it a Texas Instruments ic ? Post a pic of it, there were revisions that were known to be bad.
Here you go:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg dsp.jpg (596.7 KB, 24 views)
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:24 AM   #36
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Test the rails for ripples with a scope.
Unfortunately, most likely the dts chip is a goner. If I remember correctly, it is possible to install a new chip without having to program it in advance.
Damn, I thought Yamaha were not using that faulty dts... ONKYO used to have "extended" warranty due to that problem, but I haven't heard other makers to do that... still, if you have all the documentation ( original invoice and receipt I guess ) you can try to ask for a free repair due to the acknowledged faulty texas instruments chips.

Last edited by madan1; 01-17-2020 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:05 PM   #37
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

What a fail with those chips, this is unbelievable. I don't think it's gonna be possible to buy a replacement since Texas only sells them to some "certified" manufacturers.

Rails tested with a scope, ripple of 20 mV is present but the test method is not ideal, most of the noise is injected by ground clip here. Looks acceptable.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:17 PM   #38
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

You can get D81YK113DZKB400 ( revision D ) from alibaba or you can try getting the whole PCB from yamaha. Good thing the dts is mounted on its own board and not on the main board ( like onkyos ) - you might be able to get a new one for a "normal" price.
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Old 01-17-2020, 12:32 PM   #39
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

Last test left a sour taste, wasn't done properly so I dug out the proper short ground spring probe ends and redid the noise tests. Main DSP rail has average of 10mVp-p of noise. The input rails to the board have no more than 12mVp-p either. Looks like this is not my problem. I think this chip is just dead.

1,3V DSP supply


3,3V board input rail


1,8V board input rail
Attached Images
File Type: png DS1Z_QuickPrint2.png (41.2 KB, 25 views)
File Type: png DS1Z_QuickPrint3.png (46.5 KB, 24 views)
File Type: png DS1Z_QuickPrint4.png (45.9 KB, 25 views)
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Old 01-17-2020, 01:45 PM   #40
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Default Re: Yamaha RX-A3010 working, no sound output

looks like you got down to the problem component. Hope you can find a reasonably priced fix and I hope my a1010 does not have the same potential "disaster" waiting for it (or my denon for that matter)... :-(

Last edited by budwich; 01-17-2020 at 01:46 PM..
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