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Old 02-11-2020, 11:14 AM   #21
Wester547
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Default Re: Panasonic FC series - leaking? quality gone?

Rubycon YXF is another excellent series which has proven itself worthy in terms of long-term reliability, although it’s an ethylene glycol based series IIRC but with a very good endurance rating.

I was wondering if a disclaimer should be added at the end of this post and this post which warns about Panasonic FC’s problem? It’s still on the “good listing” as of now. I’m also curious if the series it replaced, Panasonic FA, another non-aqueous series with identical ripple current and ESR ratings but slightly different and larger cases sizes, discontinued twenty years ago, has this problem as well (I’d hazard a guess that it does). It’s probably not as pressing seeing as how it was discontinued so long ago. But it would be a pity if Panasonic was still manufacturing problematic caps to this day.
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Old 02-11-2020, 08:40 PM   #22
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Default Re: Panasonic FC series - leaking? quality gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc8adu View Post
note that they lasted over 87000 hours.
thats continuous.
sounded worse than it was.
but leaking and corroding unused parts?
not good!
87000 hours is pretty good.
But the leaking from the bottom part is what worries me a bit, as electrolyte can be corrosive and eat away traces. I'd much rather have a cap bulge and stop working that way instead of leaking from the bung.

Glad I haven't used FC that much, then. I did use FM in previous repairs quite a bit, though. But those having aqueous electrolyte, I don't image they have the same problem.

Also, I have some FC caps pulled from an old Pentium II motherboard, and note of them have leaked. Same in an old Astec PSu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
damn and i wanted to get a shitload of 100uf 16v panny fc for recapping audio decoupling caps with better ones. guess i'll remove the item from my shopping cart. any other recommendation for ultra low leakage current gbl based caps for audio decoupliong?
If you want low leakage, then honestly just go with regular GP 85C caps (or 105C caps if really needed.) 85C caps on a motherboard may not sound like a good idea, but for the audio section, it hardly matters at all, as there is not much heat or stress in that area.

Or if you want to be fancy, Nichicon KT and KA are specifically made/rated for audio use (from what I remember when comparing the datasheet to other caps, these audio caps have lower leakage and higher low-frequency ripple rating.).

That said, you probably won't get much difference in sound when upgrading those caps. So instead, maybe try going with 220 uF caps, as that should give better bass / lower low-cutoff frequency. And if you really want to improve quality - at least when it comes to using non-amplified headphones directly connected to the mobo audio, then build/get a dedicated (headphone) amplifier and remove any series output resistors it may have on the output.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:49 AM   #23
Per Hansson
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Default Re: Panasonic FC series - leaking? quality gone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wester547 View Post
i was wondering if a disclaimer should be added at the end of this post and this post which warns about panasonic fc’s problem? It’s still on the “good listing” as of now.
Well, you have Nichicon HM & HN on that list without a warning too, I added it now.
And we all know (well some know) that Rubycon MCZ and even MBZ can have troubles with heat.
Point is the "troubles" is still 100x times less than some other problematic brands.
So where do we draw the line? I would certainly like to see more documented failures than this to rule them as bad.
Hell, even UCC KZG and Nichicon HM is only affected for a certain date range, maybe same here?
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:57 AM   #24
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Default Re: Panasonic FC series - leaking? quality gone?

Sorry, it was just a suggestion, wasn’t trying to dictate the general consensus. Rubycon MCZ and MFZ have issues pertaining to heat failures but they are not known to fail just sitting unused. MBZ are fine as long as you don’t abuse them. Panasonic FC aren’t “bad” in the sense that they are completely crap (“doomed to failure”) a la Sacon FZ but the fact that we have multiple members reporting them repeatedly leaking in cool environments after a decade, and now leaking unused, is worrisome (I don’t think datecode is a factor). This is similar to the quaternary ammonium salt capacitor plague of the late 80s / early 90s. They were known to cause various problems in ECUs and what not. They were not failing just because they were overstressed, as the bungs were deteriorating faster than conventional electrolytics.

But I guess you have a point - Sanyo WG and WX aren’t on the “bad” list but I (and momaka) have seen one or another bulge and leak just sitting in storage with respect to early batches, just like failure prone batches of KZG/KZJ/HM/HN/HZ and crap brands. Would I personally label early batches of WG and WX “troublesome” because of this? Yes, but I suppose you’re right, it’s a matter of opinion and not an objective topic. Samxon for an example is generally considered a good brand here although some have had issues with that one brand (and not just with the GF and GK series either).

Last edited by Wester547; 02-12-2020 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: Panasonic FC series - leaking? quality gone?

Yea don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be the dictator of Badcaps here!
But the thought I had was exactly what you write: how many more brands/models do we put on the "maybe bad list"?
I mean it's pretty strange that HM/HN was not updated on that list even!
P.S: I added the note about KZG maybe being ok from year 2008 that you informed me of in another thread way back when.

Last edited by Per Hansson; 02-12-2020 at 10:24 AM..
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