What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

A caution for those who would like to adopt the higher voltage/larger can size method of increasing cap lifetime. Be careful with the leads, the lead spacing increases from the original component. Make sure that no stress is placed on the lead sealing by forcefully squeezing in the leads. Any gas leak created by such action will remove any life gain improvement and may cause premature failure.

This is a good point. lead spacing may increase, and often going above 10mm diameter (cap can size) the lead size/diameter also increases. This is good, if it fits, but bad if it doesn't.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Your snippet shows exactly what I said.

It may be there to calculate lifetime from but it's still not lifetime.
- It's Endurance.

Calling it lifetime confuses people.

~~~~~~~

There is an Industry Standard test for that Endurance that I came across a month or so ago which is where I came up with the description of the test.
-
Unfortunately I can't remember where I saw it or who defines the standard.
(JIC, IEC, JEC, ANSI, or ___ ??? ) - Been looking, haven't found it yet.

.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

I agree.
Changing lead spacing affects capacitors.

Not sure what that has to do with the point of the original question.

Has anyone covered mounting them sideways or upside down yet?

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Many 9's

All the caps show in my grading chart are
THE EXACT SAME SIZE CAN

Which throws your entire argument against it right out the window.

.

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Many 9's

All the caps show in my grading chart are
THE EXACT SAME SIZE CAN

Which throws your entire argument against it right out the window.

.

Wrong,because the whole point was to not use same sized can.

[davmax]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Well PCBonez you have been given accurate information. It is your choice to reject it, you now have enough information, your success will now depend on your actions.

I am finished with this discussion.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Many 9's

What I was talking about at that time had nothing to do with changing the can size.
- Nothing at all to do with changing can size.
In fact I specified I was giving numbers for one can size.
- Can size was constant.

So countering with "unless you change the can size" is bogus.

Yes: Changing the can size changes things.
You are right, congratulations.
- But it's N/A to what the discussion was about.

Same-same with most of your points.
You are right, congratulations.
- But it's N/A to what the discussion was about.

.

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Nothing bogus about changing the cap (can) physical size. Naturally the limitation is what'll fit, sometimes you're stuck with same diameter but can go taller, sometimes not.

It is quite applicable to the discussion because when using higher capacitance or voltage, the can size does increase (in the same model/family of caps, which if you review my posts, was what I had written about all along).

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

There is something bogus about changing the can size when your countering a statement that holds the can size as a constant.

~~~~

PCBONEZ:
Granny Smith apples are green.

9999~~
Apples aren't all green. Red delicious are red.

---

You are right, congratulations.
- But it's N/A to what the discussion was about.

---

Trying to have an intelligent conversation with someone with that kind of mind is pointless.

I am done.

.

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

I never considered can size to be a constant, only the person doing the repair, per repair, will know the can size limit, so we don't need to always assume same size until it is manditory towards available space.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Exactly: *you* never considered can size to be a constant.

*I* made a statement that specifically *held the can* size constant.

You countered it with an argument based on happens when the can size changes.

You have repeated this same pattern over and over.
And you don't even understand why that doesn't work.

.

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

I have no lack of understanding, you're just looking to argue. Seems pretty pointless since we had a different context.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

I didn't start the argument. You did.

And to the other part -> Exactly:
- Some one says something...
- And you counter it with an argument that is OUT OF CONTEXT.
- And you counter the rebuttal with another argument that is OUT OF CONTEXT.

That's called a taking a left turn.
And your arguments are and endless chain of left turns.
That's called going in circles.
It doesn't go anywhere.

Now go waste someone else's time.

.

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

I didn't start the argument. You did.

If you say so, but our first disagreement was the extent of, or if there even was, any problem from the oxide layer loss.

And to the other part -> Exactly:
- Some one says something...
- And you counter it with an argument that is OUT OF CONTEXT.

My comment about oxide layer was directly in context, when I replied to your post.

- And you counter the rebuttal with another argument that is OUT OF CONTEXT.

Since my replies were direct replies, quoting what you wrote, not what you might have meant, and not what you might have written in a different reply, they were continuing the same context about changes in capacitance, voltage, not can size. Never did I write any kind of disagreement about can size within same model/family of cap.

That's called a taking a left turn.
And your arguments are and endless chain of left turns.
That's called going in circles.
It doesn't go anywhere.

Now go waste someone else's time.

.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but get over it. More information > less.

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Not in context.
Your example ""50V 10uF"" is a different KIND of capacitor.
-> Left turn.

I'm done wasting time with someone that can't remember what the conversation is about. Any further comments you have please direct to the wall on your left.
I'm sure it cares about what you have to say more than I do.

.

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Not in context.
Your example ""50V 10uF"" is a different KIND of capacitor.
-> Left turn.

... and yet, would have the same factors since they're still aluminum electrolytics. The higher voltage caps referred to in industrial SMPS aren't a different kind. Caps I've used years ago in PSU and motherboard repairs (equipment that still works fine), aren't either. I have the luxury of hindsight, exposure to PSU built to higher standards than PSU used in a PC, and having used them myself for repairs. Remember, we aren't talking about extreme differences in voltage, we're talking about staying within a family of cap that retains other parameters suitable for the circuit including low enough ESR. Thankfully instead of just relying on your word, we can consult datasheets to determine this.

I'm done wasting time...

[Elitist]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Seems we have a whole new branch of aluminium chemistry and electrochemistry evolving here. I must write to my former student about this. He should worry - his PhD thesis depended on established wisdom!
As far as tolerance values are concerned, starfury1's example was only part of the story. If the range of an 1000mF cap can be 800 - 1200, consider that an 1500mF component could range from 1200 - 1800; hence preferred values!
Notwithstanding my first comment, the electrolytic capacitor is a dynamic electrochemical circuit element. Who knows what its absolute value will be under any specific condition at any specific moment. Even elaborate ac analytical techniques only provide a snapshot. Change the load, voltage, current and the film adapts. Or, in respect of this website, NOT........

[PCBONEZ]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Your example caps most certainly ARE a different kind. Different design for different applications, different chemistry, not low ESR, less water, no vents because they are not prone to forming gasses. - Different family...

There are AC aluminum electrolytic and the mere fact they are aluminum and electrolytic does not put them into the same family as what this thread is about.

When you can't stay on the subject you ARE wasting your time, and everyone elses...
.

[999999999]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

Define "kind". We dont' care about some arbitrary classification, we care if the manufacturer specs align with the circuit.

Do you realize that if you go from one supposed "very low ESR" family of cap, to another "fairly low ESR" family, that if you are using a cap of higher voltage rating, you automatically have lower ESR than same cap family at lower voltage? Do you realize that whatever your goal, you can in fact consult a datasheet and find more than one alternative part that is functionally acceptible? This is not a hard thing to do, being elite about cap models matters most when there is a size constraint.

IF there is a size constraint, then by all means, do choose based upon that.

The key here is not to think "same family", it's to think about the actual ESR and consult the datasheets. Same with other parameters.

I'm not caring if you feel I'm wasting my time, because I have science on my side, as well as years of real-world implementations, motherboards and PSU that do work fine using higher voltage rated caps. As already mentioned the key is consulting datasheets to see if the particular part chosen, has acceptible specs. Forget family, focus on the specs needed.

It's a shame some can't focus on this, that even if ignoring the same family you can have an acceptible result, all along I had already implicitly wrote of using same family.

I highly recommend that PCBonez and others try it. I have. If there is any problem it is not in the distinction drawn by PCBonez, as this I have already disproven by doing so for years. Let's have real examples of other problems, that would at least begin to be useful information.

[chipper]

Re: What happens when you seriously increase capacitance?

You know you are doing something right when your buddy asks you to help his buddy out [whom you don't know] , move. The guy removes the fuse from his cheap multifunction [all-in-one] stereo , and leaves us to wait 3 or 4 hours for him to show up with the pizzas. You know it when he arrives with the pizzas , but you have already been listening to the stereo since you put a rolled up piece of foil from your cigarette package into the fuseholder to make it work , while you drank his beers.