Dell 2407WFPb Monitor - Bad Cap

[thewzard]

You sir are a genius. I was going to check the capacitor but you beat me to it!

[thewzard]

Alright, so after doing some searching on the forums here I have gathered quite a bit of knowledge. Man you guys sure know what you're doing. I need your help yet again.

My TDK inverter board has three Taicon HD series caps but I have looked up and down Taicon's site and I can't find the spec sheet for it anywhere. In fact, the HD series isnt even listed on their site.

I found this thread that references the HD series but no spec sheets:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=122

I'm tracking down the remaining caps from the power board now. I will report back once I have rounded them all up.

[thewzard]

In the thread I mentioned above, someone said something about Nichicon still making this cap and I found a similar Nichicon cap but I'm not 100% certain. I need someone's input on this.

http://products.nichicon.co.jp/en/pdf/XJA043/e-hd.pdf

[Toasty]

Different manufacturer. NOT the same product. Some manufacturers have the same series codes. Do not be confused that one is the same as the other.

Dimensions, capacitance, voltage of inverter board Taicon HD caps?

[thewzard]

Taicon is a part of the Nichicon family. Thats why I thought there might be some truth to that statement. Anyway, you would know better than me.

TAICON
35V 220uF
~10mm diameter
~12mm height
105C(HD)P
C0621(M)

[thewzard]

Alright so this is what I have come up with for the power board. This is as far as I can go for today. I cannot find the FDAI brand anywhere and I can't pull the specs from ELITE's site from any browser. Hopefully Elite's site will work better tomorrow. Has anyone heard of the FDAI brand?

EDIT: I took toasty's link from earlier (http://chinsan.co.th/files/PW.pdf) and altered the link to reflect the different series (http://chinsan.co.th/files/ES.pdf and http://chinsan.co.th/files/EJ.pdf) and it worked!! All I'm missing to complete the power board is to figure out the FDAI mystery.

FDAI (I think)
50V 47uF
U32 105C
CD112A
Picture available if necessary
Measurements not available*

Jamicon
100V 1uF
TK P105C
624C2(M)
Picture available if necessary
Measurements not available*

Elite
35V 470uF
EJ(M) 105C
(C)0616 FET
Picture available if necessary
Measurements not available*

Elite
25V 220uF
ES(M) 105C
(C)0620 FET
Picture available if necessary
Measurements not available*

Elite
450V 120uF
PW(M) 105C
(C)0623 FET
Picture available if necessary
Measurements not available*


*I felt confident with this process and I didnt measure the caps. I now know that it was a foolish mistake on my part but it was partly because of the trouble im going through to get the measurements. My ruler wasnt made for this, its long and bulky and the measurements don't begin at the tip of the ruler. What are you guys using to measure?

[Toasty]

While Taicon may be part of Nichicon, the series HD may or may not cross "family" lines. Information is sketchy at best.

There is no known Taicon HD datasheet "in the wild", so it's very difficult to compare. While the Nichicon HD's may prove to be a good match for this application, I'd be more inclined to go with some better series'.

A toothpick, straw, or q-tip stick makes a good measuring device. You can mark it off every 5mm or so and get a pretty good idea of sizes. Your "standard" #2 pencil is nearly 8mm in diameter. A penny is 19mm and a quarter is just over 24mm.

Look at some various brand caps datasheets and notice the standard diameters of 5, 6.3, 8, 10, 12.5mm. Same with heights, but height is -usually- not a big deal unless the cap is crammed into a really small area.

Diameter is the bigger problem as many are typically crammed tightly together. Replacements may be difficult to find in a particular diameter and is the chief complaint when trying to replace caps. i.e.- The manufacturer put it out in 8mm but you can only find 10mm replacements.

FDAI picture please.

Toast

[thewzard]

Okay I get it, its not a perfect process is what you're telling me. Sometimes you need to substitute one for another. Well, so far I have been pretty fortunate. I have found suitable replacements for all of the power board caps without too much trouble.

This guy is the only one that still eludes me. I cant find the manufacturer to get the ripple current specs.


U32 might be the series?


I guess, going by what you said earlier, the only thing left now would be to go with the specs I have (50V 47uF) and get the best quality, highest ripple effect on digikey.com.

[thewzard]

I found them. It's FOAI not FDAI. pretty confusing if you ask me.

[thewzard]

Alright so I've got the power board down. Here is what I've got, maybe someone can confirm that I didnt completely mess this one up.

2x FOAI
50V 47uF
U32 105C
CD112A
Size: 6.3x11 RC: 145mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/kZvfnG

1x Jamicon
100V 1uF
TK P105C
624C2(M)
Size: 5x11 RC: 19mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/iLWoWd

4x Elite
35V 470uF
EJ(M) 105C
(C)0616 FET
Size: 10x30 RC: 1300mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/mrOCOz

1x Elite
25V 220uF
ES(M) 105C
(C)0620 FET
Size: 8x12 RC: 730mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/kL2eRU

1x Elite
450V 120uF
PW(M) 105C
(C)0623 FET
Size: 18x45 RC: 740mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/iJTwAG


Now I just need to figure out this Taicon HD series problem. I'm going to grab the best 35V 220uF caps I can find that will fit the space.

[thewzard]

Alright, here's what I got for the Tiacon replacement:

3x Taicon
35V 220uF
105C(HD)P
C0621(M)
Size: ~10x~12 RC: ???

Replacement option 1: http://bit.ly/lbjHM2
NICHICON
Lifetime @ Temp: 7000hrs
Ripple Current: 865mA

Replacement option 2: http://bit.ly/lLDDph
PANASONIC
Lifetime @ Temp: 4000hrs
Ripple Current: 1.29A

Please tell me I got this right...

[Toasty]

Post 30, the links don't work...?

[thewzard]

REPOST: I couldn't edit post 30 so I'm just reposting the entire thing and fixing the links.

Alright so I've got the power board down. Here is what I've got, maybe someone can confirm that I didnt completely mess this one up.

2x FOAI
50V 47uF
U32 105C
CD112A
Size: 6.3x11 RC: 145mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/iRID7k

1x Jamicon
100V 1uF
TK P105C
624C2(M)
Size: 5x11 RC: 19mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/ieT8FQ

4x Elite
35V 470uF
EJ(M) 105C
(C)0616 FET
Size: 10x30 RC: 1300mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/mtFfGt

1x Elite
25V 220uF
ES(M) 105C
(C)0620 FET
Size: 8x12 RC: 730mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/jqry40

1x Elite
450V 120uF
PW(M) 105C
(C)0623 FET
Size: 18x45 RC: 740mA
Replacement: http://bit.ly/jxuHg8


Now I just need to figure out this Taicon HD series problem. I'm going to grab the best 35V 220uF caps I can find that will fit the space.

[PlainBill]

Originally Posted by thewzard

<SNIP>
Now I just need to figure out this Taicon HD series problem. I'm going to grab the best 35V 220uF caps I can find that will fit the space.

Seriously, that's all that is really necessary. Most of the specs they have you so concerned about are 'better than' parameters. The capacitance should be treated as 'should match if at all possible'. The voltage is 'as high as or higher than the original'. Diameter and length are important only in that the replacement must fit into the available space, and fitting 25mm high caps into a space 22 mm high presents problems. ESR is important, but it is a 'lower than' spec, with new parts exhibiting an ESR a fraction of the spec.

PlainBill

[smason]

Originally Posted by PlainBill

Seriously, that's all that is really necessary. Most of the specs they have you so concerned about are 'better than' parameters. The capacitance should be treated as 'should match if at all possible'. The voltage is 'as high as or higher than the original'. Diameter and length are important only in that the replacement must fit into the available space, and fitting 25mm high caps into a space 22 mm high presents problems. ESR is important, but it is a 'lower than' spec, with new parts exhibiting an ESR a fraction of the spec.

PlainBill

I could not agree more!!! All this talk of "match the original's spec for ripple and ESR" is (in my opinion) silly, and a huge waste of effort.

You have a monitor made in China with shit caps in it. Those shit caps lasted 3-4 years then failed. If the caps are that shitty, who says they were anything even close to the published specs???
The specs were probably just made up by the marketing dept. to be close or better than the competition's caps.

Use a known good manufacturer/series and call it done.

I "blindly" use Panasonic FM or FC in monitors and never give it a second thought.

[thewzard]

Got it. Thanks guys, I'll let you know how it went!

[Toasty]

The Panasonic FM's are fine for the Taicon HD and 2¢ cheaper than the Nichicons.

All the other choices look fine.

Good Hunting!

Toast

[jetadm123]

Originally Posted by smason

I could not agree more!!! All this talk of "match the original's spec for ripple and ESR" is (in my opinion) silly, and a huge waste of effort.

You have a monitor made in China with shit caps in it. Those shit caps lasted 3-4 years then failed. If the caps are that shitty, who says they were anything even close to the published specs???
The specs were probably just made up by the marketing dept. to be close or better than the competition's caps.

Use a known good manufacturer/series and call it done.

I "blindly" use Panasonic FM or FC in monitors and never give it a second thought.

Funny, but I've wondered about the same thing. The specs put out by these "Brand X" companies are suspect to say the least. Seriously, is there a "UL" Labs for caps that tests manufacturer's caps against their spec sheets? I think not. Therefore, these manufacturer's can fiddle around with the numbers as much as they wish because there's no one out there to call them on it. I use low-esr caps from name brand companies and have had no problems.

[Toasty]

Yeah, and when the ripple burns out the GPU, we'll see then won't we...

[PlainBill]

Originally Posted by jetadm123

Funny, but I've wondered about the same thing. The specs put out by these "Brand X" companies are suspect to say the least. Seriously, is there a "UL" Labs for caps that tests manufacturer's caps against their spec sheets? I think not. Therefore, these manufacturer's can fiddle around with the numbers as much as they wish because there's no one out there to call them on it. I use low-esr caps from name brand companies and have had no problems.

The crap brand caps could easily meet initial specs. I'm not sure about the level of sophistication of equipment in the typical Chinese manufacturing plant, but 25 years ago it was possible (economical!!) to buy automatic insertion equipment which verified components as they were inserted into the board. The automated test systems used at that time were based on the PDP11 minicomputer, far less capable than an average PC today. If that type of equipment is in use it's very likely that the manufacturers specs are actually met.

The problem is that while the caps may have been good when the board was manufactured, they don't stay that way. And endurance testing is very difficult (expensive!!) to do in an accelerated time frame.

PlainBill