Badcaps.net Forum
Go Back   Badcaps Forums > Motherboards with Bad Capacitors > Abit - Asus - Aopen
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-17-2016, 03:03 PM   #1
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

After gathering all of the information I can handle I still have some questions. Just too much information to process. I know I'm in for some abuse over the brand of board but it is what it is...

I have an Asus P5E-VM DO motherboard out of an machine that I built that needs some capacitors. The board is about 8 years old or so. It has served us well until lately. Although several years ago it did once experience a CPU fan failure that I suspect is the beginning of our current problems. Lately the video driver has been freezing (according to Windows error messaging) and the screen will just go black. After much "Googleing" I ended up here. After tearing it down for inspection I found bulging and leaking Caps all over the place. Obviously it needs some help. I am an automotive technician by trade and am well familiar with electronics repair but we never get down to the level of replacing capacitors. I have re-capped a PSU in one of our monitors in the past so I am familiar with the process though.

My main question is this: what is the "best practice" for replacing electrolytic caps with polymers? My board has 9 really short caps around the cpu socket. I am having trouble finding reliable sourced replacements that fit within the envelope. They cannot be any larger as it would interfere with the cpu cooler brackets. I have no clue what the ESR values are for the existing caps or even how to determine that. I suspect from reading on here that these were the cheapest junk Asus could find at the time. I can easily find polymers that are the same basic specs. Do I NEED to use half the capacitance? The advice on here seems to be a little vague. Anyway, all advice is welcome.

Beyond that, I plan to re-cap the whole board or at least where prudent. There are several (I think 6) polymer caps on the board already. Should I replace these too? Also there is a cluster of tiny (10uf 25v) caps in the corner by the audio chip. Should I source and replace these as well? They look like much different quality but I have no clue to be honest.

Thanks in advance for any help offered. Here are the specs and I'll include some pictures too.


Asus P5E-VM DO
Intel Core 2 Duo e6600 2.4Ghz
4GB Ram
Windows 10 Pro 64bit

Capacitors:
680uf - 4V "tmv" (8mm x 8mm)
820uf - 6.3V "kzg" (8mm x 12mm)
330uf - 6.3V "kze" (6mm x 12mm)
470uf - 16V "kzg" (8mm x 12mm)
10uf - 25V "E79A" (2.5mm x 4mm)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1013162211a (1250x1280).jpg (1.79 MB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg 1013162212 (2000x1067).jpg (1.74 MB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg 1013162212a (1295x661).jpg (579.2 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg 1017161306a (2000x1334).jpg (1.75 MB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg 1017161306c (1723x1722).jpg (1.87 MB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg 1017161307c (2000x586).jpg (962.2 KB, 22 views)
File Type: jpg 1017161309 (2000x942).jpg (1.46 MB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 1017161312_HDR (2000x1526).jpg (1.83 MB, 28 views)
File Type: jpg 1017161311a (2000x1123).jpg (1.77 MB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg 1017161311c (2000x1224).jpg (1.69 MB, 28 views)
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-17-2016, 10:55 PM   #2
ChaosLegionnaire
HC Overclocker
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
City & State: Singapore
My Country: Singapore
Line Voltage: 240VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,574
Default Re: Cap replacement advice

firstly, the problem u describe can be caused by a bad power supply. what power supply was used in that system, what caps are used in it and how is the condition of the caps in the psu? please post the power supply in the power supply subforum for scrutiny.

the tmvs are ultra-low esr electrolytics i guess. because their esr is so low, their capacitance is actually already halved by the manufacturer and i see they are for cpu vrm output use. for the cpu vrm, esr matters above all else. capacitance is secondary. u can keep the current capacitance for the tmvs. i recommend panasonic oscon sepc caps as replacements. u can go with 560, 680 or 820F and 2.5, 4 and 6.3V values depending on availability. however, u can also go with chemicon psc polymer caps if u want a "matching capacitor scheme" on your cpu vrm area. they will do fine. the light blue caps at the cpu vrm input are chemicon psc polymer caps.

next, whether to replace the existing polymers on your board depends on whether a junk power supply was used or not in the system. the e6600 isnt a hot cpu. therefore, u might wanna see if its your power supply contributing to the cap failures or other problems as well. btw, the red caps with an F logo on them are fujitsu fpcap polymers. not the best polymers but okay if u dont use a junk psu on them.

all of the kzg and tmv caps have to go as they are known bad caps. they are replace on sight even if not bulging. u can replace the 820F 6.3V kzgs with 470 or 560 F 6.3V sepc or psc polymer caps (if u want a matching capacitor scheme for cosmetics).

next, beware, i believe the 470F 16V kzgs are meant for filtering the 12V rail of the pci-express x16 slot. therefore, do not try to decrease the voltage. use 270 or 330F 16V sepc or psc polymer caps. also, i find it funny the caps around the video card x16 slot arent bloated but the ones further away are. what video card was used in that system? curious to know if it was a power hungry video card or not.

the kze caps are a good series and do not have any issues so u can leave them there. they are not in a critical position that requires polymers so u can save yourself some work, time and money as polymers are expensive (learn to cost-cut smartly and work smartly as well).

the "E97A" are being used as audio decoupling caps for the onboard sound. generally, any general purpose cap will do for that purpose. no need to use any branded caps there. its just a waste of money since what do u expect from onboard sound anyway?! audio decoupling caps require some esr to function properly. using too low esr caps will cause problems with the onboard sound so just leave them unless u have problems with the onboard sound. you can save some money, time and work again. those hardly ever cause any issues.

lastly, the polymer replacement values i cited are from other similar 35-express series chipset boards. those are the common capacitance values seen and used by manufacturers on the polymer versions of those 35-series boards. u can google pictures for other q35 or p35 polymer cap boards from asus or other manufacturers and see their capacitance values. thats how i learn and figure out replacement values on my own.

Last edited by ChaosLegionnaire; 10-17-2016 at 11:12 PM..
ChaosLegionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 10:32 AM   #3
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: Cap replacement advice

Wow, thanks for the very helpful insight. Several of the things that you mention are very telling to me. They brought to mind areas that I had obviously overlooked.

First, I totally forgot about the PSU issues this box has had in the past. When I originally built this box I used the PSU that came with the Apevia case. It was apparently sub par. It failed after several years. This happened around the time of the CPU fan seizure. I can't remember which was the chicken and which was the egg at this point. I replaced it with a spare that I had from a different PC that I was using for parts. Also not great quality (low end OEM). That was replaced last year with a new Corsair CX430 PSU. I will post in the other sub-forum to get feedback on that choice. Hopefully it's at least servicable.

Secondly, the PCIe x 16 caps are still good because I have never used a video card on this machine. I have always just used the onboard video. It worked well enough for our needs (until recently) and there just wasn't a need to upgrade. The current trouble with the onboard video was the impetus for this current crisis.

Third, the onboard audio does not actually work anymore. It started having problems around the time of the major PSU/CPU cooler failure. I upgraded the OS at the time of that repair/rebuild and had always attributed the audio trouble to a driver issue. I went from XPpro to 8pro and that seemed like a plausible explanation. This was not really a crisis as I added a simple audio card to resolve the issue but it sure would be nice to have the front ports working again if possible.

FWIW - This computer is the primary desktop that we use to manage our curriculum for homeschooling our kids and my wife uses it to manage her documents and surf. The kids do each have a personal laptop for their studies but she manages it all from this unit and collects their work for storage and archiving on this as well. It's familiar to her and she's used to it and she's not particularly tech friendly. Her comfort with the system is a good part of my desire to fix as well as cost. IF I can get it up and running again by replacing these caps I will probably upgrade the CPU (it'll take a Quad) and max the RAM (8GB) to get one more decent run out of it. I know it's tired and old but totally replacing it right now is just not feasible and when it's working it more than meets our needs.

I do really appreciate you thoughtful insight. It has been very helpful. Now I guess I'll go see what they have to say about my PSU... Like they say "You don't know what you don't know".

Andy
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 12:48 PM   #4
ChaosLegionnaire
HC Overclocker
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
City & State: Singapore
My Country: Singapore
Line Voltage: 240VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 1,574
Default Re: Cap replacement advice

it sounds like when the previous power supply failed, it may have inadvertently fried something on the board as a result, thus the failed onboard sound. it *may* have also silently damaged the northbridge gmch causing graphical woes down the road. at first, there may seem to be nothing wrong with it but after a few months or years, problems will start to surface. it is starting to look less and less likely this board will be fixable if the onboard sound was fried and nbgmch was silently damaged.

Last edited by ChaosLegionnaire; 10-18-2016 at 12:55 PM..
ChaosLegionnaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 01:52 PM   #5
Per Hansson
Super Moderator
 
Per Hansson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
City & State: ----
My Country: Sweden
Line Voltage: 230v 50Hz
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 4,283
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

This thread might be of interest too since it's a very similar board with similar problem:
P.S: I renamed and moved your thread to the Asus subforum...
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57652
__________________
"The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it."
Per Hansson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 02:50 PM   #6
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

ChaosLegionnaire, I'm sure that you're right. I have been an Automotive Technician for more than 30 years. I specialize in drivability and performance problems (read computer/sensors/wiring issues). We deal with "dirty power" problems at work too so I am familiar with the potential consequences. I'm not sure why that thought didn't cross my mind when the old psu was blowing up but that's something for a different thread.

I just priced out replacements for every capacitor on the board and it's less than $30 total. I might just give it a try anyway and see what I get. If it fixes things than it will be an epic win. If not I really haven't lost much ground to the effort. In light of your advice in your first post, I think I'm going to replace them all. Even the polymers. There's no telling what condition any of them are in at this junction.

Thanks again for your input. I do appreciate it. I will update the thread as things progress if I decide to move forward.

Andy

Last edited by acs5071; 10-18-2016 at 02:53 PM.. Reason: reply to
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 02:55 PM   #7
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Hansson View Post
This thread might be of interest too since it's a very similar board with similar problem:
P.S: I renamed and moved your thread to the Asus subforum...
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57652
Thanks for the heads up (and the move to the correct forum). Someday I'll figure out how to navigate these things better.
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 07:59 PM   #8
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

So now I'm seeing in some other threads that folks are recommending filling in vacant capacitor slots during the repair.

How would someone know if this is possible, helpful, even worth trying?

How would someone know what capacitors to use in these vacant positions?

Why do I feel compelled to continuously try to make chicken salad out of chicken poop?

OK the last question doesn't really belong here but hopefully someone can shed some light on the others.

Thanks again

Andy
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 08:21 PM   #9
retiredcaps
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
City & State: Canada
Posts: 9,096
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by acs5071 View Post
I just priced out replacements for every capacitor on the board and it's less than $30 total.
While I like fixing older technology like a 775 motherboard, I wouldn't spend $30 USD (or about $50 CDN) on new caps. The work involved to desolder every cap will be difficult because these boards are multilayer and require a good soldering station. You will likely spend the entire weekend just desoldering/resoldering caps.

If only one or two caps were bad, I would attempt the repair.

For $30 USD, you can possibly buy a low end complete PC on your local craigslist that is 775 socket based. Alternatively, you can look for another 775 socket motherboard on ebay, newegg, etc for the same $30.

Not that long ago, I bought a 5 year old office environment used Compaq/HP socket 775 (E8500 CPU) with a legit Windows 7 COA for $10 CDN total.
__________________
--- begin sig file ---

If you are new to this forum, we can help a lot more if you please post clear focused pictures (max resolution 2000x2000 and 2MB) of your boards using the manage attachments button so they are hosted here. Information and picture clarity compositions should look like this post.

We respectfully ask that you make some time and effort to read some of the guides available for basic troubleshooting. After you have read through them, then ask clarification questions or report your findings.

Please do not post inline and offsite as they slow down the loading of pages.

--- end sig file ---

Last edited by retiredcaps; 10-18-2016 at 08:28 PM..
retiredcaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2016, 09:04 PM   #10
mariushm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
City & State: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 3,719
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

No way this costs $30 to fix.

The 4v capacitors around the cpu can be replaced by capacitors of higher voltage rating like 6.3v. I'm 80-90% sure you could even replace them with 2.5v rated polymer capacitors because there shouldn't be voltages as high as 2.5v feeding the CPU. Still,the price difference between 2.5v rated capacitors and 6.3v rated capacitors are not big enough to be worth complicating your life, and you're not space restricted to be forced to buy 2.5v or 4v rated capacitors. In fact, often the 2.5v rated capacitors are more expensive than 6.3v capacitors.

Capacitance is also not that critical, it could be slightly smaller or slightly higher there. it's more important to have lower ESR, that's why there's so many (8) capacitors in parallel there.
So the point I'm trying to reach is that you could save money buy buying a single unit in larger volume. Instead of ordering 8 x 680uf 4v, you could order 8 x 820uF 6.3v polymer capacitors in addition to the ones meant to replace the KZG series capacitors by the memory slots and the PCI slots.

Also, i don't see in the pictures, but if the capacitors near the chipset are KZG, i would replace those as well.


For example see here :

680uF 6.3v 8 mm , 13mm tall (0.46$ each if you buy 10, 0.4$ if you get 25) : http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...4-1-ND/5269774
820uF 6.3v 8mm , 8 mm tall (0.48$ each if you buy 10, 0.42$ if you get 25 ) : http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...3-1-ND/2347911

It's basically buy 22 capacitors, get 3 free in other words. Still, we're talking only about $10 + shipping, not $30
Either of the above will work perfectly fine to replace both the KZG capacitors (820uf 6.3v and the 680uF 4v ones). I'd go with the second option only because they're just 8 mm tall. The 13 mm tall ones - though very unlikely - may touch some CPU heatsink fins.

You can look for other polymer capacitors here: http://www.digikey.com/product-searc...acitors/132402

Play with the capacitance and voltage rating filters and from above the table you can enter minimum quantity you're willing to buy (discounts are at 10,25,50,100 pcs etc) and then sort results by price and you're done.

Where you don't need low esr (what polymer capacitors are very good for), you could use electrolytic capacitors : http://www.digikey.com/product-searc...acitors/131081

The KZE capacitors ... KZE is a good series which rarely fails, but if you have a power supply pushing crap power in them they're not invincible, they could fail. It's not clear from the pictures, they seem fine, but if you see some leakage on the tops or they look like the bung (the rubber bottom) leaks electrolyte or is swollen, they should be replaced as well.

Last edited by mariushm; 10-18-2016 at 09:08 PM..
mariushm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 09:25 AM   #11
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredcaps View Post
While I like fixing older technology like a 775 motherboard, I wouldn't spend $30 USD (or about $50 CDN) on new caps. The work involved to desolder every cap will be difficult because these boards are multilayer and require a good soldering station. You will likely spend the entire weekend just desoldering/resoldering caps.

If only one or two caps were bad, I would attempt the repair.

For $30 USD, you can possibly buy a low end complete PC on your local craigslist that is 775 socket based. Alternatively, you can look for another 775 socket motherboard on ebay, newegg, etc for the same $30.

Not that long ago, I bought a 5 year old office environment used Compaq/HP socket 775 (E8500 CPU) with a legit Windows 7 COA for $10 CDN total.
This is all great advice and I appreciate your insight. There are several things that are pushing me in this direction.

I have Crohn's (and several other autoimmune diseases that came along with it) and have been very sick off and on for the last 4 years. As such I have not been able to work (Auto Mechanic) for several years. Time is something that I have plenty of (too much to be honest).

This is my wife's computer. She is an amazing woman with many extraordinary talents. Integrating new IT into her environment is not among them. It will likely be 5 times the effort to replace this computer, transfer everything, and retrain her on the new system. IF POSSIBLE it would be great to just fix the status quo.

Also this machine has an OEM license. I built it myself and unfortunately I am pretty cheap at times... As such I don't think I can replace the MB and reactivate Windows, can I? (If this is possible, it would be ideal) So this does complicate finding an ideal solution because I need the right hardware with a good COA. Or I need to buy a retail license. I have been watching our local Craigslist and such for the proverbial "hen's tooth" but haven't found anything that seems right. Most of the capable "off lease" machines around here are going for $150-$250 USD. A great deal to be honest without all of my other concerns. For me a $25-$30 dice roll might be the right move. Even if my odds seem to be falling as more folks chime in.

Thanks again for your thoughts

Andy
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 02:29 PM   #12
Audison
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
City & State: Ljubljana
My Country: Slovenia
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 31
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

http://www.windowscentral.com/how-li...rosoft-account
This might help you reactivating your windows.
Audison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 02:38 PM   #13
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audison View Post
http://www.windowscentral.com/how-li...rosoft-account
This might help you reactivating your windows.
Dude, this is EPIC news if it pans out. We already sign in with MS accounts so it is likely already in place. Thanks for tracking that down, I've been searching most of the day for an easy solution and this is the most promising thing I've seen.

Andy
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 05:17 PM   #14
acs5071
New Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
City & State: Bowie, Maryland
My Country: United States
I'm a: Knowledge Seeker
Posts: 13
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audison View Post
http://www.windowscentral.com/how-li...rosoft-account
This might help you reactivating your windows.
So for anyone that's interested it looks like this information is legit. I just spend some time on chat with tech support and they confirmed exactly what this post suggests. If you are running a recent version of Win 10 and you use your MS account to log in to your user account, the software is digitally licensed to your account (not the hardware). After a "repair" it should activate automatically when you log back in. If it doesn't there is an option to select that indicates a significant hardware change and it will connect you with support to resolve it. This even applies to OEM licenses (this is what I have) on home built machines. This certainly gives me some breathing room on this repair.

Andy
acs5071 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2016, 06:48 PM   #15
mariushm
Badcaps Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
City & State: Romania
Line Voltage: 230VAC 50Hz
I'm a: Hobbyist Tech
Posts: 3,719
Default Re: Asus P5E-VM DO Cap replacement advice

In that case, if I may make a suggestion :

Spend 55$ on a ASRock QC5000M : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157616

Pros:

* It's a microATX motherboard (will fit in your current case).
* It has a quad core cpu that's optimized for low power so it's only maybe 2-3 times as fast as the processor you had in the old system (which could be good, if your wife uses older applications they may work just a bit faster and otherwise won't confuse her)
* It has an onboard video card (inside the CPU) and VGA and HDMI connectors in the back, and you can install a more powerful video card if you want
* It doesn't need a cpu fan, it's completely passively cooled, but you can add a case fan if you wish (it has the connectors)
* the cpu uses so little power there isn't a 12v cpu power connector on the board, so less cables to make a mess inside the case
* everything except USB 3 on the board can still work with Windows XP if your wife is more comfortable with such an old OS. to get working USB 3 ports you need Windows 7 or higher. There's 4 usb 2.0 ports on the back and 2 headers for 4 more usb ports on the motherboard so you won't suffer from lack of usb ports

Cons: (if you can call it that)

* you can't upgrade the cpu at a later point, the cpu is soldered onto the board
* only two SATA ports so maximum a hard drive and optical drive (but if needed you could add a cheap sata controller in one of the pci-e slots)

Add $20 for a 4GB DDR3 memory stick and you're done.

----

or you could get a bit more performance (about 15-20% more) with this pair:

GIGABYTE GA-AM1M-S2H AM1 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128696
AMD Athlon 5350 Kabini Quad-Core 2.05 GHz Socket AM1 25W http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113364

$35 for the motherboard, $35 for the CPU makes it $70. Same functionality as previous recommendation, just 2 less USB 2.0 ports and now you have a cpu cooler spinning in the case.

Last edited by mariushm; 10-19-2016 at 06:51 PM..
mariushm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Badcaps.net Technical Forums 2003 - 2019
Powered by vBulletin ®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:45 PM.
Did you find this forum helpful?