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Old 10-17-2016, 03:42 AM   #21
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Default Re: Asus P5B

If you have some higher-capacity polymers like 470+/16 than those, otherwise the low-ESR 1000/16.

Toshin Kogyo I guess. Though japanese brand, not that good one. Yeah if the bridge runs hot may be a good idea to replace it as well. Guess you can use those Nichicon FP caps there.

The blue Chemi-Cons are only safe to use for CPU Vcore as there is low voltage. Maybe RAM. But you'd have to measure which ones are the VRM output and which are the input (for RAM usually 3.3 V and for the bridges 5 V).
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Last edited by Behemot; 10-17-2016 at 03:43 AM..
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:54 AM   #22
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Default Re: Asus P5B

I don't have any higher-capacity polymers. So I will probably buy 560uF polymers from you for the vrm output, filling the one unpopulated spot. Then I'll use yours KZH 1000uF 16V for vrm input, also filling the one unpopulated spot. And about the TK caps, I will replace the one near the southbridge with my FP cap and leave the rest. Do you think it would be OK like this?

If so, how much would you want for the 10 560uF polymers and 5 KZH 1000/16?
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Guess that would be 100+shipping…
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:46 AM   #24
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Thank you. I'll send you a PM with details.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: Asus P5B

This thread confirms the positions for the missing caps, very similar board:
http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=57707
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:07 PM   #26
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Default Re: Asus P5B

I'm probably overlooking something, but I don't see how it confirms the positions. When looking at the pictures, that board is indeed similar, but the cap positions are different, there are less positions on that board.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:36 AM   #27
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Default Re: Asus P5B

I meant this pic, but yea you are right, it's not as perfect match.
But it does imply the high vs low side of the VRM as was mentioned earlier.
Easy enough to confirm with a multimeter too of course
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Old 10-19-2016, 02:14 AM   #28
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Yep you can usually beep it to ATX 12 V or on the other hand to some SMD ceramics under (or inside) the CPU socket. Than its pretty much obvious which is which.
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Old 10-25-2016, 07:28 AM   #29
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Default Re: Asus P5B

I've replaced the caps and put a Xeon E5430 in. But I couldn't get it boot even on stock frequency, but could boot with FSB 266. After some experiments, I found out that the problem is with RAM.

But first I will give you some background about this PC. I got this PC from a friend for a very cheap price about 2 years ago. It was with Core 2 Duo E6400 and 1GB RAM. After I got it I bought 3 pieces of cheapest modules of 2GB 800MHz RAM (costing me more than the PC itself) on aukro (Czech equivalent of ebay), put it in and it was running fine until now when I decided to give it a little upgrade.

I tried to put some better RAM modules from another PC in and managed to boot on stock frequency, but only with ram clocked to 667MHz (they are 800MHz modules). Then I noticed that the RAM timings are set wrong. So I went to BIOS and tried to set them manually, but I couldn't. I have a problem with tRFC option, the highest value the BIOS allows me to set is 42, but I need to set it to 52.

So my thought was, maybe it would be possible to modify the BIOS to allow a higher tRFC setting. But I know nothing about BIOS modding. Or somehow make it to set the right timings automatically.

What I don't understand is, how it is possible that the PC was running fine with these RAMs for about 2 years and after replacing the CPU, it just doesn't want to work with them anymore.
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Old 10-25-2016, 11:22 AM   #30
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Higher overall stress with 4c CPU I guess. Was it with all four, or just two modules? It is very common for most 478/775 boards to not handle the full speed with all four banks populated. Besides if the memories are some of the newly-china-manufactured fleebay ones I would not wonder if the chips were actually 667MHz. I got a few like that, they run on overdrive with the SPD settings. Most of them handle that, some may not.

BTW I just realized, while it is true some fabs still produce DDR SDRAM or DDRII SDRAM chips, plus there are most likely still huge stocks of old chips, well…with current state of chinese refurbishing business I would not be surprised at all if those were actually desoldered chips from modules meant for recycling. Just tested, maybe relabelled and soldered on new PCBs. In recent years some of these practices reached previously unimaginable levels.

Last edited by Behemot; 10-25-2016 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 10-25-2016, 02:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Quote:
Originally Posted by m5b4 View Post
I've replaced the caps and put a Xeon E5430 in. But I couldn't get it boot even on stock frequency, but could boot with FSB 266. After some experiments, I found out that the problem is with RAM.

I tried to put some better RAM modules from another PC in and managed to boot on stock frequency, but only with ram clocked to 667MHz (they are 800MHz modules). Then I noticed that the RAM timings are set wrong. So I went to BIOS and tried to set them manually, but I couldn't. I have a problem with tRFC option, the highest value the BIOS allows me to set is 42, but I need to set it to 52.
no, the p965 chipset on your board only officially supports fsb speeds of 533, 800 and 1066 mhz. the xeon e5430 is a 45nm 1333 fsb cpu and this bus speed is not officially supported by the chipset. using that cpu is actually overclocking the chipset bus speed and it may not like it unless u bump up the northbridge mch and/or fsb voltage.

also, when using a 1333mhz fsb cpu, the mch could also lack the proper memory divider ratios to run the ram at 800mhz or running the ram at a 1333mhz fsb with the 800 mhz divider may actually be overclocking the ram to 1066mhz, so it uses the 667 divider instead to avoid overclocking the ram which may cause boot failure if the memory ics are not overclocking grade. please update your board's bios to the latest version. the asus website says that u have to update to the latest bios for proper 45nm cpu support.

CAUTION: i recommend u put back the e6400 that u got first with the board to flash/update the bios. the xeon e5430 may be unstable due to the bus speed not being officially supported with an out of date bios and could brick the board if it freezes or corrupts the bios during the update.
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What I don't understand is, how it is possible that the PC was running fine with these RAMs for about 2 years and after replacing the CPU, it just doesn't want to work with them anymore.
u might also wanna check your power supply. the caps either in the psu, mobo or both could have degraded over time and become marginal. thus the change of components to more power hungry or demanding parts could have "tipped it over the edge" exposing weaknesses in the psu/mobo.

Last edited by ChaosLegionnaire; 10-25-2016 at 03:14 PM..
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Old 10-25-2016, 04:34 PM   #32
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Oh, haven't noticed the CPU is 333, thought it was 266 MHz FSB. That explains a lot!
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Old 10-25-2016, 05:33 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemot View Post
Higher overall stress with 4c CPU I guess. Was it with all four, or just two modules? It is very common for most 478/775 boards to not handle the full speed with all four banks populated. Besides if the memories are some of the newly-china-manufactured fleebay ones I would not wonder if the chips were actually 667MHz. I got a few like that, they run on overdrive with the SPD settings. Most of them handle that, some may not.
So I made some more tests. Originally I had 3 sticks of some crappy 2GB RAM. I took them out and replaced them with 2 sticks of 2GB Kingston branded RAM with heatspreaders I had in another system. Then I set them to 667Mhz and run 1 pass of memtest without errors. Then I set them to 833MHz, and let the memtest run for 1 pass, also without errors.

But the problem is with timings. The motherboard always sets it to 5-6-6-15 with tRFC 42 no matter what when the settings is left on auto. I don't know where it gets these values as it's not from SPD. The values in SPD are 5-5-5-18 with tRFC 51 for 800MHz. I think that these better RAMs can handle that, but those crappy RAMs can't. This problem seems to me like a some kind of bug in the BIOS.

So I think that it would solve my problem if I could somehow make the motherboard set the correct timings. I know that those crappy RAM modules can run at 800MHz as they have been running at that frequency from the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
also, when using a 1333mhz fsb cpu, the mch could also lack the proper memory divider ratios to run the ram at 800mhz or running the ram at a 1333mhz fsb with the 800 mhz divider may actually be overclocking the ram to 1066mhz, so it uses the 667 divider instead to avoid overclocking the ram which may cause boot failure if the memory ics are not overclocking grade. please update your board's bios to the latest version. the asus website says that u have to update to the latest bios for proper 45nm cpu support.
With FSB 333 I can run the RAM at 667MHz or 833MHz. I already modded the latest BIOS with correct microcode for the Xeon and flashed it before swapping the CPUs. I might try flashing the BIOS mockingbird linked to see if it makes any difference.

EDIT: I tried that, it makes no difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
u might also wanna check your power supply. the caps either in the psu, mobo or both could have degraded over time and become marginal. thus the change of components to more power hungry or demanding parts could have "tipped it over the edge" exposing weaknesses in the psu/mobo.
I already checked the PSU and all caps looks fine.

Last edited by m5b4; 10-25-2016 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 10-25-2016, 06:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Asus P5B

It's quite common for the older and cheaper boards to have limited settings for memory.

On the other hand, things used to be simpler back than Now when I go to memory settings there are dozens of parameters I don't even know what are for
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: Asus P5B

have u tried putting back the e6400? does the memory still crap out with the e6400 when it was running fine a few years earlier? just checking to see if u have degraded/failing/dying junk ram instead which may not be fixable just by messing with the timings.
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:18 PM   #36
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Default Re: Asus P5B

What do you think the bandwith difference between 5-6-6-15 with tRFC 42 and 5-5-5-18 with tRFC 51 is? Probably 10 MB/s.
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Old 10-26-2016, 02:34 PM   #37
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosLegionnaire View Post
have u tried putting back the e6400? does the memory still crap out with the e6400 when it was running fine a few years earlier? just checking to see if u have degraded/failing/dying junk ram instead which may not be fixable just by messing with the timings.
I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to try it.

Quote:
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What do you think the bandwith difference between 5-6-6-15 with tRFC 42 and 5-5-5-18 with tRFC 51 is? Probably 10 MB/s.
I don't really care too much about memory bandwidth. I just want to have a stable system which I can't get with timings the motherboard sets.
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Old 10-26-2016, 02:53 PM   #38
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Can the board increase voltage to memory? You can try adding 0.1 or 0.2 volts.
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Old 10-26-2016, 03:02 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Can the board increase voltage to memory? You can try adding 0.1 or 0.2 volts.
I already tried that, I set the voltage to 2.0V. It didn't make any difference.
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Old 10-26-2016, 03:06 PM   #40
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Default Re: Asus P5B

Like I mentioned earlier, the it takes a bit of finessing to get it to work properly...

In the cpu area, you will have to playa round with the settings... Don't pay attention to what it says at POST, it's inaccurate. What you need to do is to create a bootable CD or USB stick with some sort of software that will show you the actual speeds, and then modify them and keep booting into the CD to see the result. Once you have it set right, write it down.
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